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julietsierra -> RE: Is it wrong to ask for help for your Dom? (10/7/2007 6:25:03 AM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Focus50
quote:
ORIGINAL: julietsierra
How nice of you to name call just because someone doesn't agree with the FantasticFocus. Cause nitpicking or not, here's the deal. As a dominant, do you believe a submissive should be in a relationship wherein she wants the dominant to change for her? Do you think the dominant should change? Or should a submissive take the dominant as he is and make responsible decisions to stay or go based on that?
I swear Focus, you're reminding me (in a real bad way) of the scene in the old Rosanne show where she's sitting at work eating a doughnut, explaining as she chomps off pieces of the doughnut, how a woman should take a man and bite away at what he was, so that she can eventually mold him into what she wants.
I'm not saying that the dominant isn't responsible for his own actions. I'm answering HER - you know.. the OP who asked the question? All I'm saying is to make her decision based on exactly what she has at this moment. Don't hope for, pursue, etc change. Decide. Want him? Stay. Don't want him? GO. And if he DOES change - ON HIS OWN and possibly with her moral support, then it's all good. If she DOES decide that THE MAN is worth sticking around for, his other issues are surmountable. If he isn't, then her decision to go is still the same, only occurring on down the road further when they both have more opportunity to hurt each other etc.
Oh yea... and I'm making darn sure I don't lambast someone who isn't here to defend himself against the statements of his submissive. Personally, I don't care what his or her problems are. They are the problems of those two people, and honestly whatever those problems are, simply does NOT change the decision she needs to make.
And cloaking it in "oooh, I want to HELP him before I lose all respect for him" doesn't change the fact that she's making HER decision HIS fault.
Ultimately, no matter what sweet little spin you put on it, it's STILL her decision. Please note, I didn't say her FAULT. I said her DECISION.
And round n round the merry-go-round goes..... lol
Here's the thing. You (and celticlord2112 too) won't let up about the OP making some decision. I've previously posted that her coming here and asking advice could be construed by reasonable persons as being a relevant part of her (or anyone's) decision making process. But you just can't accept the path she's taking; you're obsessed solely on the "destination" - to decide!
For cryin' out loud, the OP is her *FIRST* post on these Boards and she's getting battered for daring to even ask. Or it's the way she worded it blah blah....! How dare she post here without previous experience of posting here, ay? Yet you have no hesitation taking some moral stance of not lambasting her dom, "someone who isn't here to defend himself against the statements of his submissive".
Way to welcome the newbies - wonder why more don't post....
Focus.
So, what strikes me is what's your deal with all of this? I don't know Focus, as a new person I was given exactly that same advice and I had the common sense, the intelligence and the wherewithall to see the rightness of it. Are you implying the OP doesn't have any of those? Or are you implying we should continue to give her the sweet little pats on the back all while lying to her just to make her feel better as she makes some hard decisions?
Ok...so in the interests of salvaging Focus' um... focus... here we go:
Oh honey, I'm so sorry the big bad dominant who isn't a dominant in your life is having such a difficult time. Surely he couldn't be much of a dominant if YOU would lose respect for him.. and of COURSE, you just do all you can to change things for him - change HIM, all the while losing even more respect for him until either you can't take it anymore (and walk away hating him) or he can't stand your mothering tendencies and walks away from you, making YOU feel like a loser when you just might not be.
OR... you can realize that everyone of us - including your loser <cough, cough, snicker> dominant (cause Focus DOES like insulting someone you care for, so obviously I should do it too) are responsible for our own decisions and make a decision - right here, where you are now, what you're going to do with this man in your life. Do you respect him enough to stick things out? Have you lost that respect? Decide. Yes... Right now. What is your gut telling you? Cause those little voices in our heads advising us are generally correct - it just takes the rest of us a bit longer to understand what they're saying.
It is not out of meanness or callousness that I tell you this. It is a cold hard fact of most relationships - whether they're vanilla or bdsm or whatever. Honestly, while Focus likes to focus on your newness, because evidently you can't think your way out of a paperbag without his oh so timely help, I'm sitting here thinking of COURSE you care for the man. Of COURSE you want the best for him.. but when you start talking about that person being in jeopardy of losing your respect, you're talking a whole 'nother story here. Now you're talking pity and for the life of me, I can't figure out one dominant who would like to bask in pity because of what's happening in his life.
While Focus is being oh-so-cavalier and calling that man in your life all sorts of names while he "helps" you (cause you're so new and all), I'm suggesting that you simply stand back, realize that what you're talking about is much more simple than you're making it and decide from there.
Lots of people have troubles in their lives. Lots of them need outside help. And even more importantly to the subject here, lots of them have spouses and significant others who wouldn't think of doing anything else other than standing by them in their time of trouble. Some of them have spouses and significant others who decide that they're simply not able to do that - and they walk away. There is no judgment made as to what you decide. It's simply what you can and cannot handle. The decision isn't what your DOMINANT will do. It's what YOU will do. But in the interests of Focus' sweet and caring attention to new and haven't a clue you, then by all means, call your dominant names. Insult him. And if you won't, then write posts that encourage other dominants (who appear to have some vested interests in your breakup) to do so for you.
And lest you think I have some holier-than-thou complex as Focus would like you to believe, I will say that I speak from a position of experience. I held a marriage together for 18 years all the while trying to "help" my husband come to the conclusion that he needed help. Along the way, while I was doing all I could to "help" him, I was losing respect for him. And here's the interesting part. While I was being oh-so-helpful, he was losing respect for ME.
The thinking got a bit convoluted here, and I'm not presuming that what went on with us is what's happening with you. I'm showing you how weird things can get when you're going down that road.He suffers from depression. At the time, he felt like he was a loser. He had no respect for himself. He couldn't figure out why I was staying with him. If I was staying with him, I must've been an even bigger loser myself, so whatever respect he had for me, he lost. I was staying because I loved him and that's what wives and significant others do for the people they love. I lost respect for him because he wouldn't help himself. He lost respect for me because I attempted to help him. Weird huh?
Anyway, in the end, I finally decided that no matter what he did, said or thought, I had to make a decision for me and that's what I did. I simply couldn't stand by him anymore. Perhaps I failed. Perhaps I was a success in breaking out of a bad situation. I didn't know at the time. All I knew is that the decision had to be made and waiting around for someone to do it for me was like spitting into the wind. Nothing was ever accomplished and I got a face full of spit.
In retrospect, I should have made the decision many many MANY years before, when we both could have walked away without putting children through the divorce ringer and without him turning into the batterer he is today. In the end, the decision to walk away was STILL mine. At the time, he begged me to stay (yep...even though he didn't respect me). Ultimately, it didn't matter what he'd have done to finally fix things. Once my respect was gone, there was really nothing he could have done to get it back. And yes... it was MY decision - not something he did or didn't do to make it a final straw.
So anyway... call me nitpicking. Call me whatever you wish. But in the end, I'm actually approaching your first post - not because of how you worded things, but on the basis of you saying you're losing respect for this man. When that happens, something's got to give. I'm not encouraging you to walk away. I 'm not encouraging you to stay. I'm encouraging you to recognize that ultimately, no matter what other bs people are telling you (oh wait...I forgot.. I'm supposed to tell you bs too - I tried...I just can't. The way I figure it, you're probably a tad more intelligent than that) it is YOUR decision what you want to do and you can't depend on the "if-come" of your dominant doing just what you want in order to stay.
But anyway, to get back to Focus' focus...even though you gave us no information as to the nature of the difficulties your dominant is having, I'd like to say that of course he's a passive dominant and no, no no, you shouldn't be expected to give everything to him while he works on this. Your dominant is in pain, but it's so obvious that it's YOU that is having problems...so I'll just keep on focusing on what a weak and ineffectual dominant your dominant is. That way, I can help you out of whatever little respect you DO have remaining for him, all the while patting you on the back and saying "there.. there little girl..."
There... does that help your cause Focus?
juliet
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