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GoldStallion -> RE: Does Islam need a reform period? (10/6/2007 9:29:54 AM)
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ORIGINAL: torchure
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ORIGINAL: GoldStallion
Agreed. But I would expand that to say all religion means submission to a fraud - its all deceiving those looking for guidance and leadership and it all works through hypnosis and the con of a higher authority based on an illusion.
I disagree on this point, but I suspect that may, in large part, be because we're working from two different definitions of what a religion is. See, I define a religion as any set of beliefs that answers, or attempts to answer, three basic questions:
1) From where did I come?
2) Why am I here?
3) What happens when I die?
And, so, under that definition, science too is a religion. In short, religion is nothing more than an effort to understand and relate to the universe and our presence in it. I flatly reject the assertion that some make that religion is based on "faith" with faith defined as "belief in the absence of evidence". It is absolutely not an absence of evidence. It is a matter of what one is willing/able to accept as evidence. Those who are of the Science faith have the same issues as to what evidence to accept and what weight to give that evidence.
What you, perhaps intentionally, perhaps unintentionally, are referring to is organized religion. (By inculsion of "higher authority") And, on that point I'll absolutely agree. When that higher authority is a person (or persons), then, historically, it has eventually become mutually exclusive to peace, growth, and happiness. Or, truth, justice, and, with tongue firmly planted in cheek, the American way.
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Islam happens to be particularly active at the moment in this part of the world; its just one of the heads of the hydra of religion. What I find baffling is the zealous defense of a liberal position which means that the hydra wins. Theres a time to be liberal and a time to draw a line. People seem to think you can have one without the other, whereas I have only observed that, rather like rights and responsibilies, they only work as a pair
I describe myself as "incredibly liberal". Sometimes even as "frighteningly liberal". It's funny how people on both sides of the divide see the other as wanting rights without responsibility. Personally, that's a huge sore point for me. But, then, my shrink agreed with my ex-gf's assesment that I have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility. *chuckle*
What really frustrates me though is the false dichotomy that is presented so often that there actually is much difference between the so-called right and so-called left. From where I sit, the differences between the American political left and political right are so minute as to be completely unimportant. There's no real difference, for example, between the Democans and the Republicrats. What little difference there is was best sumed up, in my opinion, by a good friend of mine more than a few years ago. "The Republicans want to be your daddy. The Democrats want to be your mother. I wish they'd both fuck off. Stay out of my bedroom. Stay out of my decisions until such time as those decisions directly interfere with someone else's freedom to make their own choices."
But, I digress. A liberal is no less likely to draw a line in the sand, so to speak. It is simply a matter of when and where we choose to draw the line.
Thats very funny about the Democrats and Republicans. On the religion point, yes absolutely I mean organised religion - if there is evidence then thats a different thing going on in someones brain; I define an authority as a person saying "this is so" and just going with it. Thats fine if you know you can "trust your mechanic", but its also territory where people are misled.
Your definition of religion is much wider, and those questions I file under spirituality - which is what organised religion has failed to nurture in its followers on the ticket that it would, by providing a book answer - I dont think the answers are in any book.
I take your points about dichotomies and liberals. Again I agree. I just get nervous waiting for the point to come where the line might be drawn, because there is such a thing as too late. Thats kind of weird to say, because I am not risk averse in most of my life. Anyway, that is a really good analogy. Thanks.
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