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FULL Disclosure? - 7/26/2005 10:45:12 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		It's been an interesting week. My parents, originally visiting for a week which turned into a month, FINALLY returned to NJ. beth & I hardly had unpacked all the boxes from our move before they got here and it seemed we never had a moment when we could enjoy our new house. Since we are still dealing with visiting children we have yet to even set up the "dungeon" one of the major selling points of the house! But we do have our "Love Swing" hidden in plain sight outside our bedroom, disguised as a hanging chair frame. Then on the first day of "working" on the grounds beth got bit on the finger by a carnivorous spider. Of course the bite got infected, requiring a tetanus and antibiotic shot. Yesterday the wound had to be lanced and now I have to deal with having a "one-armed" slave. I tried calling a temp service "Merry subs" (a Division of "Merry Maids") but it must be the busy season and they said they didn't have any available.

Anyway....it got me thinking about us meeting for the first time. As much as we talked and shared history with each other (a whole 10 days of internet and phone chats) both of us kept stuff to ourselves. On my part, my rationalization was not to scare this complete "newbie" with my perverted desires. Strangely enough beth, after having a history of being told she was "strange", "weird", "warped", and perhaps "psychotic"; also didn't want to risk scaring off a person who appeared to be qualified to introduce her to a world previously only existing in her fantasies.

Well, we met and the rest, as they say, is history. But in the first few days and weeks, as the protective curtains became more gossamer it turned out that many of those "perversions" we kept hidden were common fantasies. So much so, that even today I'm amazed that our physical and sexual desires are so compatible. We don't need to address the details, but it is an essential part of why I now believe in the "soul-mate" concept when previously I thought it was a fairy-tail.

I don't know if I would have done anything differently, I think she thought I was strange enough from just the elementary discussions we had, but it does pose a question or two. Is it better to keep some things a secret until you get to know the other person? Should Doms, and submissives only talk about the "basics" until you know the other person is "real"? Have you ever NOT met someone who you've begun a dialog because one of their "kinks" was TOO kinky?

PS - Do you think beth should be punished for not wearing her gloves (that I told her to wear!) when she did the gardening? btw-she did put the gloves on AFTER being bit. At first she thought it was just a thorn prick.
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RE: FULL Disclosure? - 7/26/2005 10:52:19 AM   
SweetDommes


Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		I think keeping some things back is a normal part of getting to know someone - as you trust them more, you trust them with more pieces of yourself. We haven't dismissed someone who's kink was "TOO kinky" - but if their main kink is something that we aren't interested in (golden/brown showers, 'forced' crossdressing, etc) then yeah, we wish them luck and send them on - that's just normal.

As for the glove thing - don't you think the infected spider bite is punishment enough? She certainly learned her lesson from it (at least, I hope so - if she fails to wear them next time, then punishment is definitely in order).

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: FULL Disclosure? - 7/26/2005 11:10:11 AM   
Kinkypupper


Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline 		The pro part of a full and complete disclosure is to quickly "scare" off those who probably would not be compatable anyway..

The anti part of a full disclosure is frightening them off before they do get to know you.

Being open about such things is one of the traits that I accept that I do have. And let any discussion just follow its normal path. I also do admit that I think I say too much too soon.


_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: FULL Disclosure? - 7/26/2005 11:29:05 AM   
Phoenixandnika


Posts: 748
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: Aberdeen Maryland
Status: offline 		This topic is wonderful, thank you for it.

I consider myself blessed. My Master and I were freinds, in fact he was my best friend before I begged his collar. We used to play this question game. Much like truth or dare but with out the dare part. Anything was fare game. We both agreed to answer honestly.

Did we share alot about experiences in and out of the lifestyle. Of course, in fact my Master knew things that the general population do not know about me. I think its important to be open but also to take things slowly. I often wonder, how can someone submit truly submit to a perfect stranger, someone that they have known a week or two? Some do and it works out some do and it turns into a mess. I guess its about perpective and what works for each couple.

That being said, after living together for 6 months we are still finding out little quarks about each other. Sometimes there are things we do not think to tell or ask about simply because they are every day habits or peeves. That is not the same as openly and blantenly lying about something.

I do strongly feel though, as does my Master that being open and honest is the key to our survival.

As far as the gardening without a glove, sometimes natural consequences are enough.

nika,Phoenix's deviant slave

_____________________________

"Life is neither a bed of roses nor a carpet of thorns, it's just what you make of it."



(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: FULL Disclosure? - 7/26/2005 11:31:01 AM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		Spider bite? Ouch. Maybe you two will become lucky enough for her to become Spider Woman. But I don't know what that would do for bondage. Best wishes and prayers on a quick recovery.

As for meeting someone, that's why I perfered meeting them through a web site. Viewing profiles allows one to gain a concept of likes and dislikes. My profile isn't my entire past but shares my interest in kink as well as me being a Dom.
You never know what you're going to get when you ask out the girl at the bar, library, and mass session. And who really makes the first move. If you're a dom who really likes someone so you hide a little away, what happens when the other person states "do you have any rope? I'd like to be tied up." If I had met my pet anywheres else but Collar Me, I'd might be still be having the casual hows the weather chit chat and not even have gone out for coffee yet. Yes my profile had liltxsubby on the nervous side, but she bulked up and took the chance.

I've done my fair share of scareing off people on dates who flat out told me "I'm not into that sort of thing at all and never will be." I remember some people tell me "stop pulling my hair, I don't like that." After I gave one lady a light nibble on the neck she said "please don't do that, I can't take any kind of pain."

One way or another you are going to find each other out. When someone wants to know about me and my kinks, I go ahead and put everything on the table but also disucss how I don't mind taking things slow. I'd rather know right from the get go if our relationship is possible rather than hide ideas and such for years and end up having them ruin the relationship that I've fell in love with. Life is to short to keep your feelings in.

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: FULL Disclosure? - 7/26/2005 12:22:21 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		It's never good to "keep things secret" but there are levels of closeness and confidences that change as you get to know someone.

For example, I don't think a first date is necessarily the time to discuss how many children you want in your life. However, if you plan on having sex, it would be good to discuss past histories.

It's a blend of social propriety, personal values, and relevancy. Feeling a need to "hide" something is usually a bad sign, however letting things come out naturally and reasonably as closeness allows is sensible.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: FULL Disclosure? - 7/26/2005 2:11:55 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Is it better to keep some things a secret until you get to know the other person? Should Doms, and submissives only talk about the "basics" until you know the other person is "real"? Have you ever NOT met someone who you've begun a dialog because one of their "kinks" was TOO kinky?

PS - Do you think beth should be punished for not wearing her gloves (that I told her to wear!) when she did the gardening? btw-she did put the gloves on AFTER being bit. At first she thought it was just a thorn prick.


I don't know, I'm probably one of those who are too open, too fast...and I struggle with the wisdom of that approach all the time. But the bottom line is I am who I am...a very open, high-energy person, with a lightning fast mind, and a mouth to match. I've also always had a very kinky and sexual mindset.

The bottom line (no pun intended) is that if someone doesn't like that, they aren't going to like me much anyway. I'm intelligent, love to get philosophical, and can have guite a smart-ass side...when it's appreciated...I'm only going to get along with people who enjoy that.

I'm a kid in a candy store, and always will be. I'm not ashamed of it, and I'm not sure hiding it has all that much value.

Saying that, I'm reasonably cautious, and refuse to go into personal sexual details about my life with new contacts. I prefer to get to know other things about them first.

As for the punishment issue...ahhh...Yup. I vote Beth needs consequences....Although for me, being arachnophobic, the bite would have been trauma enough. She did disobey a direct order, right? ::evil grin::

Cin


_____________________________

Cin

quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: FULL Disclosure? - 7/26/2005 4:42:11 PM   
fourpeas


Posts: 243
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline 		Hey, my Dom heard about that Dial-A-Sub thing too. I told him HEY! that position is FILLED!

But seriously... I worry about the "hiding things." I felt like I hid some feelings and emotions from my Dom this weekend as I was at a funeral and I am not quite sure how to handle that yet. Maybe I am still grieving from the loss of a family member a week ago. (I DON'T KNOW!! NOTHING MAKES SENSE!!!!)

Anyways. I am struggling with the fact that I am at heart, a private person, and I want to share my life and myself fully with him, but I am so private with my emotions (and for good reason) because I'm absolutely fucking crazy and I don't see a need for a lot of that craziness to see the light of day. And also, I have found that I just deal better with certain emotions (negative ones usually, save anger) by myself. It is easier for me to clarify things when I have that time to sit and listen to a song or to just figure out exactly what it is that bothered me the most and thus what I want to deal with in a conversation.

Ouch. My little brother almost died of a spider bite. I vote no more punishments.



(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)
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RE: FULL Disclosure? - 7/26/2005 4:53:25 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fourpeas
Ouch. My little brother almost died of a spider bite. I vote no more punishments.



LOL Looks like I'm the only one mean enough to think Beth needs a punishment. I suppose to some degree the spider bite was enough...but Merc was trying to protect, and care for, his slave, and her disobedience caused harm to his property...

Of course, this is just a moot point, and a just-for-fun debate, because I believe Merc knows exactly how best to deal with this situation. ::grin::

Cin

_____________________________

Cin

quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to fourpeas)
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RE: FULL Disclosure? - 7/26/2005 5:40:25 PM   
dominmd


Posts: 474
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		I guess disclosure will come as both people grow into the trust and bond that will most likely happen further into a relationship. A little mystery is good in the beginning, but you have to be honest if anything is to work. The whole "How do I tell my girlfriend/boyfriend I am kinky" question is always part of this disclosure.

There is really no simple answer here. Except to say that it will just feel right, and you will know when that is.

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)
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RE: FULL Disclosure? - 7/26/2005 5:46:59 PM   
KarbonCopy


Posts: 779
Status: offline 		Mistress and I were quite similar when we got together.

She was previously in a relationship with a male Dom, and realized that it wasnt going to work, because after some talking between the two, they agreed that it was a total power struggle between the two. She didnt know that she was a Domme, but after some self realization she realized she was Domme. (she's tried being sub, and came to the conclusion that she really didnt like it.)

Anyways, myself being raised in a sexually liberated home (very open about sexual discussion), having a mother that had handcuffs on hanging off her four poster, bull whips on the walls, etc. I was found myself drawn into the darker side of bedroom play.

When Mistress and I got together, we didnt know of eachother's involvement or interest into this lifestyle, and were almost afraid to talk about it, in fear of scaring eachother off.

But as time went on, slowly and slowly we started talking about it, doing research and asking eachother what we thought of it. And now, we seem to be on the same page, with the same turn on's and turn offs, asides from the odd thing we dont share.

_____________________________

I am KarbonCopy's signature

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RE: FULL Disclosure? - 7/26/2005 6:05:58 PM   
Faramir


Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline 		It takes a lot of trust to bare your soul - to pour out your innermost self. That doesn't happen on a first date for me.

Over time as you develop trust you can lay yourself out - be naked.

I would differtentiate between misleading someone, like saying you are a 24/7 M/s type when really your focus is on Bondage and SM, and keeping your counsel, ie not saying that under all those force fantasies you really do get turned on by the idea of rap, awful as it is.

Me and my slave slwoly inching forward to confess our sickest desires, a bit at a time, and both of us going, "Ummm, that's hot actually" was pretty funny.

(in reply to fourpeas)
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RE: FULL Disclosure? - 7/26/2005 6:13:37 PM   
sultryvoice


Posts: 368
Joined: 3/31/2004
Status: offline 		I tell more as I get to know the person. I am honest and always above board. I can't be any other way. We have to take it slow, be wise and careful in this day and time. I want this person to know me, quirks and all but in due time. One usually kows if the chemistry is there or not to open up to each other.

Respectfully,
sultry

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: FULL Disclosure? - 7/26/2005 7:01:54 PM   
domtimothy46176


Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
Status: offline 		I told toy straight from the begininng that I saw no need to discuss sex and kink until and unless we were mutually satisfied that we shared sufficient common philosophical ground to make a relationship viable. I'm sure that seems counter-intuitive to some, but it worked out great for us. Rather than allowing myself to be drawn into a kink- and/or sex-centered conversation, I insisted that we first tackle the issues of substance, such as belief systems, ethics, and long-term goals.
I hold the position that love, kink and sex, within my personal relationships, are gratuitous. I enjoy indulging myself but I will not allow myself to found a relationship upon fleeting physical pleasures or emotional states. It doesn't spreak to who and what I am or what I need and expect from a potential submissive/slave.
I don't disparage those who pursue other paths. Each of us must find the way that works best. For me, there are some topics which are simply irrelevant unless the potential relationship has a firm grounding in shared basic ideology.
Timothy

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: FULL Disclosure? - 7/26/2005 7:26:10 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		i think.. if everything was laid out upfront, there'd be no getting to know period. i think.. ppl of this world are still psyched by the hunt and chase. Getting to know is part of that.. Why stop it before its even started?

(in reply to domtimothy46176)
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RE: FULL Disclosure? - 7/26/2005 7:45:07 PM   
kyakitten


Posts: 145
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline 		Ya know, there are those of us who like the map laid out in front of us before we get there, and those of us who just take the scenic road and flush with delight when we arrive somewhere good. I would rather discover compatabilities unfolding gradually like a flower than go into a relationship with inventory in hand. But then, any Myers Briggs test could have predicted that.

Mercnbeth, I so love reading what you guys write. Thanks for sharing it here.

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RE: FULL Disclosure? - 7/27/2005 9:20:46 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Just want to interject something here. I would have noted this yesterday, but it was my son's 18th birthday and we were out celebrating all day.

The question of whether beth deserved punishment was rhetorical. At this point in my life and in our relationship, I don't need and wouldn't solicit advise in that area. Besides, if you witnessed the tears when she had to get, not one, but two shots, (one in her butt); you would have agreed that she had endured enough. she cried so much I thought it was an act and reacted with a sadistic giggle. On Monday she had to undergo the lancing of the infected area without me to hold her hand - MORE tears. NO - I think my precious beth has been through enough. Thanks anyway to all those that offered.

A couple of interesting side notes about the trip to the doctor. We were in the waiting room filling out the forms. One of the questions was; "Relationship to responsible financial party?" beth asked how she should answer. In a "stage whisper" I told her to write - OWNER. There were a few who looked up from their reading at that comment. Then when the nurse who gave her the shot on the rear noted a recovering bruise from some play-time and made a reference. We think she heard the answer to the relationship question. So I had enough "fun", although it wasn't the type of pain that beth enjoys.

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RE: FULL Disclosure? - 7/27/2005 9:29:46 AM   
Alexander


Posts: 159
Joined: 12/10/2004
Status: offline 		I had months of discussions before meeting and subsequently claiming my slaves, so I can't say exactly if full disclosure is critical. I spoke so much and so long with them that I couldn't even recall what if anything I might have left out or not found out.

But I think that we all have common warning signals that sound out things even when they are not shared. Sometimes when a girl was interested in my collar I would be put off by things she did not the specifics of what she said. If she likes talking over me or debating minutae instead of substance, if she likes analysing me out loud without being polite about it those are more important turn offs then fiding out her secrets. On the other hand the thing I think that's important is when you ask for something thats sensitive do they simply tell you or do they obfuscate? Thats really the key. Maybe you two didnt share everything but if you'd have asked her something she would have told you. Thats the real substance of full disclosure rather then just the laundry list.

My slave deb wrenched her thumb betting some drunk slut in a bar which one could hurt me by hitting me. Shes also got an arm brace on for another week or so. Its amusing to watch her trying not to drop anything. Soon as I can find another excuse to get to LA I want to get together with you two if your still in the angels.

(in reply to kyakitten)
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RE: FULL Disclosure? - 7/27/2005 9:56:17 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

I told toy straight from the begininng that I saw no need to discuss sex and kink until and unless we were mutually satisfied that we shared sufficient common philosophical ground to make a relationship viable.


Timothy,
I agree with this. The interesting part about meeting someone from a website such as CM is that going in you can assume that there is some level of interest in the lifestyle. It make for one less relationship hurdle versus meeting in a vanilla setting. But even if I had a disclosed everything and detailed every aspect down to the mundane minutia of my lifestyle goals I don't think that would have assured anything. It it didn't scare her, it sure as hell would have confused her. beth didn't know anything and had no lifestyle experience to draw upon.

There is also the issue of definitions. Consider my desire for a "slave", "24/7", "no-limits", "life contract". Within the community the image that any of these terms conveys is different from person to person. Some feel some or all of these terms are impossible or impractical in the real world. What amazed me about beth was that the process was so quick. Like someone else said, she got "drunk" on this new world opened up for her, and wanted to experience EVERYTHING. If anything, I was the one to temper and slow down the process. I also demanded that she not limit her reference point to me, which is why we frequent this site and regularly attend parties, both public and private, that bring us into contact with others. We enjoy the socialization, but beth's experience of both the good and bad situations and people have helped her develop her own perspective.

beth's comments and thoughts concerning the lifestyle and her posts here reflect that education process. They are hers, and there are a lot of things we disagree philosophically. As hard as it may be to believe, beth is a lot less open minded than I am.

It's so difficult to find a compatible person in the lifestyle who has the same definitions as you. Then if they do exist, they have to be "available", geographically compatible, and age compatible. It's difficult enough to get to the stage of agreeing to meet. Once that goal is obtained I think it best to keep some things personal. There's a lot of fun in finding out too.

One last meeting beth story. she blew me away so much on the day we met, that I threw out all my safety and first meeting protocol rules. VERY, VERY, VERY quickly we found ourselves alone in a hotel room, where the first D/s scene was to have her stand across the room and strip for me. In the back of my mind I was still thinking that something had to be wrong with this woman! she was intelligent, witty, beautiful, and sexy. But the skeptic in me said it was too perfect. So, until I saw her completely naked, I was thinking; "well maybe she's just a real good looking cross dresser!" I was relieved to find out she wasn't. Not that it would have mattered afterward but I did ask her if she was a post-op transsexual. But nope - she was just Elizabeth, born female. That day I gave her the name beth, because no one else called her that and growing up she didn't like it.

(in reply to domtimothy46176)
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RE: FULL Disclosure? - 7/27/2005 10:03:44 AM   
MsPurrmeow


Posts: 261
Joined: 10/30/2004
Status: offline 		I think it comes down to "intent." There will always be some information not disclosed simply because of a lack of opportunity. One canNOT know another person completely at any time. The joy of relationships with sentient beings is that they constantly learn and grow. Therefore, there should always be something new and interesting going on in their heads.

If there is an intention to withhold information about something, then it is going to be detrimental to a relationship. If it's simply a matter of the topic not coming up yet (and not being one of those critical issues) then things will play out as more time is spent together.

I keep no secrets and tell no lies. I just found out that my husband of ten years is allergic to kiwi. The topic never came up, and we never buy or use kiwi products. When the topic came up, we talked about it. In fact, we reiterate a lot of information from time to time, just because we're bound to forget a few things. But if a person specifically avoids a particular piece of information with a manipulative reason, then it WILL cause a problem.

I am a believer that there are three major sins in intimate relationship with me , and they are all inherently the same thing:
Dishonesty
Disrespect
Manipulation.
Witholding vital information is a form of manipulating the relationship and the other person. It is disrespectful to the person and dishonest because the intent of a relationship is to share oneself and their lives. In building an intimate or D/s relationship with me, I believe that any data regarding the persons experiences and emotional journey are important. I need to know as much about them as possible over a period of time.

On the other hand, different levels of relationships will have different levels of information-sharing. Friends, coworkers and acquaintances do not need to know about my finances or intimate life. I am not withholding information vital to those relationships. On the other hand, such information would be critical to a person integrating into my home and family and I would expect the same from them. If they withhold the information, then the relationship is not operating with all of the critical information and has the potential to destroy it.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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