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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 4:08:30 PM

CuriousLord

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
How would you feel about a family that tossed a newborn into a dumpster? Should the law be involved then?

Absolutely. It goes back to intent.

What if they had a reasoning similar to common reasons for abortion, such as they just decided they didn't want a child, or money became tight?

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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 4:10:31 PM

Grlwithboy

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I've said it before and I'll say it again - if you equate two glopped together zygotic cells with a baby, I think your view of human life is dismal and cynical, not as reverant as you think you are.

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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 4:13:06 PM

CuriousLord

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy

I've said it before and I'll say it again - if you equate two glopped together zygotic cells with a baby, I think your view of human life is dismal and cynical, not as reverant as you think you are.

What is a human, beyond the collection of cells of our linage? Is it really so dismal and cynical to cherish life?

And, you do realize that the vast majority of women don't realize that they're pregnant until those zygotic cells have already started to grow and divide into a human being, right?

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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 4:13:37 PM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
How would you feel about a family that tossed a newborn into a dumpster? Should the law be involved then?

Absolutely. It goes back to intent.

What if they had a reasoning similar to common reasons for abortion, such as they just decided they didn't want a child, or money became tight?

There's no excuse for putting a baby in a dumpster. But I'm sure you realize that.

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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 4:15:58 PM

unownedkitty

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for the people who view the babys as cells can you tell me in your view what stage these 'cells' become babys from as i know a baby can be born and live from 21 weeks and u can still have an abortion then ??
just wondering

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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 4:19:59 PM

CuriousLord

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ORIGINAL: Level

There's no excuse for putting a baby in a dumpster. But I'm sure you realize that.

Hah, yeah. I'm sorry for the slow bit. I'll not continue it.

I hoped to ask about it. At, what point would it be something you wanted to get authorities involved?

Such as, late-term abortions. Those where the baby really could've been born, it just happens to be killed (deliberately) while the woman's in labor? Or, the baby that's ready to be born, the woman's body just is slow to enter labor? Or the baby that's a week younger than that one?

I agree with you.. I hate the idea of the state being involved so; I'm quite distrusting of it, particularly when it would limit choices. But, just.. I know I'd not blink to see the state arrest those who threw a little baby into the dumpster, and I'm not seeing an immediate difference between that and the late-term abortions outside of where the baby happens to be nestled at- in a womb of flesh or cloth, a crib.

Before that.. well, before that, I know I can make the argument for younger pre-born's.. but I'm having such a hard time getting even the late-term baby's right to life across on this thread. Not because of you, just.. so many people want their "rights" at the expense of a child's life. =/

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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 4:21:22 PM

Grlwithboy

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I view a human as a gestated, born, person. Not one that "could be but isn't" one that IS. Whether premature or not.

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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 4:26:24 PM

CuriousLord

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy

I view a human as a gestated, born, person. Not one that "could be but isn't" one that IS. Whether premature or not.

I couldn't do the same. I can't find the idea of it being inside of the womb or outside of it as material. It's quite arbitrary from a physical stand point.

It's kind of funny to think.. a lot of people here argue that it's not deserving of life because it's inside of the mother. What if we were inside of the mother until we were 3? Sure, vaginas would have to be larger, or another exit- but a child could emerge a toddler. But, in that case, people would be saying, "Yeah, it's not a human- you can kill it with coat hangers, or, perferably, something designed to kill it more cleanly."

Can you imagine that? People killing toddlers? And it'd be justified by the same thing- that it's still inside of a womb.

To me, the obvious answer is that being inside or outside of a body doesn't change what it is. We're all just cells, and, until about age 25, we're still approaching the adult form. But who here would say that a child's life is worth less than an adult's?

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 10/8/2007 4:27:27 PM >

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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 4:26:28 PM

domiguy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Actually my thought on this subject has very little to do with an embryo/fetus and murder and everything to do with choice. And I expand it far beyond abortion. For me it's a more global issue about choice in reproduction, including whether or not to have um's how many to have, etc. I don't want the government dictating such things to women. When the government dictates abortion, it takes away a woman's reproductive freedom.

Yeah. I get it. You're saying women should have a choice. You're ignoring the murder aspect.

How can you just ignore it?

quote:

Me

What is a miscarriage?
Miscarriage is the loss of a pregnancy in the first 20 weeks. About 15 to 20 percent of known pregnancies end in miscarriage, and more than 80 percent of these losses happen before 12 weeks. This doesn't include situations in which you lose a fertilized egg before you get a positive pregnancy test. Studies have found that 30 to 50 percent of fertilized eggs are lost before a woman finds out she's pregnant, because they happen so early that she goes on to get her period about on time. If you lose a baby after 20 weeks of pregnancy, it's called a stillbirth.

Hmmmmm...There are lots of "murderers" running around this country of ours....I won't even bother with addressing hermoine83....It would abet the cause of the dummying down of America.

When CL and others point to someone and call them a murderer it is a little bit of an assumption...Obviously the longer the pregnancy goes the better the odds it can go full term....But one does have to make a certain leap...All a pregnancy is...Is the chance for life.

If someone is truly convinced that life begins at conception then I would hope that they would want to get to the bottom of every single miscarriage....Almost 50% of all egg that are fertilized will end in a miscarriage.....Anyone want to do the math?

Now I know that CL, you can do the math...Perhaps you are really barking up the wrong tree?....When you compare the number of "natural" miscarriages compared to the number of abortions it is staggering....Many of these women have committed a crime...Possibly manslaughter in actually contributing to the death of their children....Why are you not concerned about this type of murder? If you are concerned about the unborn and since life begins at conception then every gathering of cells is sacred....There is little difference between an abortion and a miscarriage because they both reach the same conclusion the termination of a new life....However, when you consider that nearly 50% of all sacred life will end in some form of a miscarriage...Why are you not screaming from the mountain tops to address and try to stop this horrible evil? Fuck, there are a lot of murderous women out there...Although there hands appear clean they have been complicit in murder....Fuck!!...All women are virtual and hidden serial killers...God how they sicken me!!!....It's almost enough to make one go queer.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 10/8/2007 4:28:14 PM >

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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 4:30:46 PM

CuriousLord

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A miscarriage, domi, is a shame. A lot of people do die that way in the very first stages of life.

A lot of old people- even more than miscarriages- die to also natural causes before age 80. I'm not so sure that this fact means that it's okay to go to a nursing home and kill the people older than 80 as they walk past the front lobby.

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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 4:32:41 PM

givemyall

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ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

I'm not so sure that this fact means that it's okay to go to a nursing home and kill the people older than 80 as they walk past the front lobby.

You mean I'm not meant to be doing this?..... ohh bugger!

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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 4:35:12 PM

CuriousLord

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quote:

ORIGINAL: givemyall
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

I'm not so sure that this fact means that it's okay to go to a nursing home and kill the people older than 80 as they walk past the front lobby.

You mean I'm not meant to be doing this?..... ohh bugger!

Pft. Now you stole domi's line!

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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 4:42:46 PM

givemyall

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: givemyall
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

I'm not so sure that this fact means that it's okay to go to a nursing home and kill the people older than 80 as they walk past the front lobby.

You mean I'm not meant to be doing this?..... ohh bugger!

Pft. Now you stole domi's line!

Ohh heck, if I break anymore of the ten commandments, I wont be allowed into heaven

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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 4:42:54 PM

SugarMyChurro

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Better a newborn should be in a dumpster than not find a loving home. Better it should be aborted than born and put into a dumpster. Better it should be expelled via RU-486 than by an actual abortion. Better it should be prevented by contraception than to have to be expelled by drugs.

Better that it should be planned than conceived by accident.

Better that those who want children have them.

Better that moralizing, judgmental assholes mind their own business.

< Message edited by SugarMyChurro -- 10/8/2007 4:43:47 PM >

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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 4:44:55 PM

CuriousLord

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Better dead than in a good home? What makes you think that?

I'm not going to argue with you about the "moral assholes" comment. I know you're a pretty angry guy. =/

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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 4:45:20 PM

julietsierra

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What I find interesting is that everyone who is past those years in college don't recognize that pretty much, most kids in college LIVE to argue. (And yes, I'll say "kids" since my "kid" is older than some of the others posting here.)

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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 4:48:09 PM

chellekitty

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do not

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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 4:48:18 PM

CuriousLord

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Yes, yes. I live to argue. I can see how it was uncalled for in a thread titled "abortion".

Do middle-aged people live to make snide, condescending marks to disregard the thoughts and reason of others?

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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 4:49:19 PM

chellekitty

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yep...it makes them feel better...its the basic anatomy of a put down....other people are lower therefore you are higher....

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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 4:49:33 PM

CuriousLord

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Yeah, I guess so. It's like she comes here without an actual point, just an insult.. and her insult is that we're looking to pick fights. And has no point beyond that.

But, I suppose she's right. I mean, she's old and everything, so let's ignore how hypocritical that is and..
See those legs of hers she has a display pic? Those are actually a set of scratching posts. ATTACK!

PS- julietsierra; you know.. we're not meaning to be mean spirited. Just, your comment was sort of mean spirited, so we may as well make a joke out of it. But, please, don't post things are just meant to insult or put people down.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 10/8/2007 4:54:33 PM >

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