RE: Abortion

RE: Abortion (Full Version)

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domiguy -> RE: Abortion (10/8/2007 4:49:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord A miscarriage, domi, is a shame. A lot of people do die that way in the very first stages of life. A lot of old people- even more than miscarriages- die to also natural causes before age 80. I'm not so sure that this fact means that it's okay to go to a nursing home and kill the people older than 80 as they walk past the front lobby. Poor analogy...First off, we are stretching that life begins right at the moment of conception ....Hence, an abortion is murder. ...So I'm throwing you a bone here....Now obviously some of those lives that are aborted would end up in miscarriages....Still, many four year olds that are killed by there parents might be a day away from dying in their sandbox.....So they are all murders...And hence these selfish bitches all be murderers!!!....But the real concern should be that many women that "SUFFER" a miscarriage are in fact guilty of manslaughter....I'm serious!!! Not fuckin' around here! If we investigate the death of a twelve year old then we have to investigate every single miscarriage to determine if the woman was complicit to the act of the child dying....The child was obviously in her care at the time of the death....Now some deaths are obviously going to be attributed to "natural causes" ....I have the feeling more children die from murderous mothers via miscarriages than probably all of the abortions combined.........However, there are going to be a SHITLOAD of deaths that will be medically proven to have been caused by the direct actions of the mother...These motherfuckers must be found and prosecuted under the full measure of the law....Plus, let us not forget about the "lezzin' out" factor once they are incarcerated....Very cool shit! What say you man?

Level -> RE: Abortion (10/8/2007 4:51:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord quote: ORIGINAL: Level There's no excuse for putting a baby in a dumpster. But I'm sure you realize that. [X(] Hah, yeah. I'm sorry for the slow bit. I'll not continue it. I hoped to ask about it. At, what point would it be something you wanted to get authorities involved? Such as, late-term abortions. Those where the baby really could've been born, it just happens to be killed (deliberately) while the woman's in labor? Or, the baby that's ready to be born, the woman's body just is slow to enter labor? Or the baby that's a week younger than that one? I agree with you.. I hate the idea of the state being involved so; I'm quite distrusting of it, particularly when it would limit choices. But, just.. I know I'd not blink to see the state arrest those who threw a little baby into the dumpster, and I'm not seeing an immediate difference between that and the late-term abortions outside of where the baby happens to be nestled at- in a womb of flesh or cloth, a crib. Before that.. well, before that, I know I can make the argument for younger pre-born's.. but I'm having such a hard time getting even the late-term baby's right to life across on this thread. Not because of you, just.. so many people want their "rights" at the expense of a child's life. =/ Some -- what percentage, I don't know -- genuinely believe that from conception to whatever cutoff point they have, that is permissible for abortions to happen in their mind, that it is not a child, not a human life. At what point does that change, for each person? The difference in answers is vast, for sure. This makes bringing the authorities in problematic. However, once you get to a certain stage, the latter stages, of pregnancy, the consensus grows stronger that this is indeed a human life. If I understand correctly, the vast majority of pro-choice people, at these stages, only feel abortion is okay to save the mother's life (I agree), or her "health" (which I tend to disagree with, just depends). So, the question becomes, why was this late-stage abortion done? I'm am guessing that I would rarely want any abortion to end in punishment, CL. If they're saving the mother's life, so be it. If they're doing it for health reasons...... I'm conflicted. Don't I care about a person's health? Yes. But I also see two people's health at stake..... and one will lose their life. The child. Let's say, yes, bring in the police in late term abortions done for those health reasons. The mother and health-care provider only have to state they did it for the mother's life, and that ends it, doesn't it? Even if there is a way to know whether it was done for "only" health issues, I still have difficulty wanting them punished. I tend to think there are very, very few women that believe that they are aborting a human being, and do so "just because". And yes, I think those very, very few are to be despised, or pitied. The rest, while I believe very differently than they do, have an honest difference of opinion than I.

CuriousLord -> RE: Abortion (10/8/2007 4:55:58 PM)
Alright guys, sorry, I'll have to run off for a while to get back to the books. Thanks for the comments, and I'll try to respond to them soon. (Since this is a partial mid-term week, "soon" might be relative, but, hey, I'm easily enough distracted from the books that it may not be too long. :P)

susie -> RE: Abortion (10/8/2007 4:56:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation yes i really want your answer Alright. But, everyone else, she asked, so I'll be honest. No flames. I think you're a normal person who runs off of prejustices. You rely on them because you simply haven't had enternity to learn all the reasonings behind right and wrong. You're also selfish, as all humans are. No one's an exception-even Mother Terresa acted, at the biological level, out of selfish reasons, because what she did worked for her. What you did killed, what, two children? But you did it for reasons that you thought were right, because that's, apparently, what you decided from all the things you've heard before. What you did is disgusting. If there was a God, he wouldn't have let it happen. He'd have stopped you and made it so that those children could've lived long, happy lives. But there isn't a God and you were left to make a decision you could scarcely comprehend. I imagine is wreaked emotional hell on you. You did it because you thought it was the best thing for you to do. A large part of that meant it was the best thing for you, personally. And you just didn't know better. So now they're dead. In that world.. in a world where someone looks over you, you aren't responsible. You aren't responsible when there's a God, and I think that's why people want one so much.. God frees you from responsiblity so long as you do what he says, thatet sort of release a sub gets in "subspace" when she can be perfect by just pleasing her Dom. But, there's no God. And, even though you were ignorant, it is convention that you are responsible for the deliberate inhuman act. Therefore, you were an inhuman monster in those decisions; or, perhaps, a human monster, ironically enough. Are you an inhuman monster now? I don't know. Would you kill those kids again? There are many things I have thought about commenting on on this thread but really when faced with the sort of ignorance shown in this post there seems little point. CuriousLord I really have no respect for you or your views when you can make statements like this. Whilst everyone is entitled to their opinions there is a way to put those opinions across that does not require denigrating others opinions or making personal attacks. What you have shown here is that you lack any understanding nor are you open minded enough to consider others views. You may think you are intelligent but I see no proof of that in any or your posts here. Demanding that others fall into line with your opinions and definitions is not the act of an intelligent adult but that of a petulant child that is stomping their foot and asserting they are right in the face of all other argument. When you can discuss things in the proper way without the use of inflamatory statments such as "abortion is murder" then perhaps people will start to listen to what you have to say.

chellekitty -> RE: Abortion (10/8/2007 4:57:43 PM)
bad CL...no message boards until your brain needs a break from studying or you know EVERYTHING (necessary for the mid-terms).... [sm=mrpuffy.gif]

philosophy -> RE: Abortion (10/8/2007 4:59:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level The rest, while I believe very differently than they do, have an honest difference of opinion than I. .......this one sentence is the mark of an intelligent mind wrestling with an ethical problem..........CL, please take note. Raw intelligence is not enough in this kind of arena........

chellekitty -> RE: Abortion (10/8/2007 5:00:07 PM)
so in turn you're going to flame him for his relgious views...thats real tolerant and nonjudgemental....

julietsierra -> RE: Abortion (10/8/2007 5:04:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord Yes, yes. I live to argue. I can see how it was uncalled for in a thread titled "abortion". Do middle-aged people live to make snide, condescending marks to disregard the thoughts and reason of others? just yours CL... just yours. juliet

julietsierra -> RE: Abortion (10/8/2007 5:05:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chellekitty do not do so

camille65 -> RE: Abortion (10/8/2007 5:07:38 PM)
I don't think it is so much the 'thoughts' than it is the reasoning behind the thoughts and the attitude used to present them. CL I know you won't believe this, and I'm pretty sure you will have an anti-youth comment but I bet in just 10 years if you could look back at your words you would cringe. Edit/AddIt's a shame this got derailed, I thought the real OP was interesting. The not so slow erosion of what has been considered a legally acceptable action and how it is impacting other things for women.

laurell3 -> RE: Abortion (10/8/2007 5:08:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord A miscarriage, domi, is a shame. A lot of people do die that way in the very first stages of life. A lot of old people- even more than miscarriages- die to also natural causes before age 80. I'm not so sure that this fact means that it's okay to go to a nursing home and kill the people older than 80 as they walk past the front lobby. Poor analogy...First off, we are stretching that life begins right at the moment of conception ....Hence, an abortion is murder. ...So I'm throwing you a bone here....Now obviously some of those lives that are aborted would end up in miscarriages....Still, many four year olds that are killed by there parents might be a day away from dying in their sandbox.....So they are all murders...And hence these selfish bitches all be murderers!!!....But the real concern should be that many women that "SUFFER" a miscarriage are in fact guilty of manslaughter....I'm serious!!! Not fuckin' around here! If we investigate the death of a twelve year old then we have to investigate every single miscarriage to determine if the woman was complicit to the act of the child dying....The child was obviously in her care at the time of the death....Now some deaths are obviously going to be attributed to "natural causes" ....I have the feeling more children die from murderous mothers via miscarriages than probably all of the abortions combined.........However, there are going to be a SHITLOAD of deaths that will be medically proven to have been if caused by the actions of the mother...These motherfuckers must be found and prosecuted under the full measure of the law....Plus, let us not forget about the "lezzin' out" factor....Very cool shit! What say you man? Slippery Slope....and good argument and good point and logic. Where do we draw the line? If what you say is true, don't we have to prosecute every woman that smokes a cigarette while pregnant for attempted murder? What about when her husband keeps forgetting to buy her medications? How about women that chose to have medical procedures that may have some risk to the baby like amniocentisis? Many cases are determined by these considerations every day. l

susie -> RE: Abortion (10/8/2007 5:09:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chellekitty so in turn you're going to flame him for his relgious views...thats real tolerant and nonjudgemental.... So it is not ok for me to comment on his lack of judgement in calling someone a murderer. But it is ok for him to call someone that aborted a fetus a murderer? Really go back and read his comments again. If you are standing up for him because you believe in what he is saying then I suggest you make comments showing that. If you are defending him because you think we are attacking him because of his age then you have misunderstood everything that we have said. Age is not the point. What matters is how you put your points across. That is my issue with him. edited to add Actually I did not attack his religious views at all. I as it happens do not believe in God either. That was not the point.

laurell3 -> RE: Abortion (10/8/2007 5:14:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chellekitty so in turn you're going to flame him for his relgious views...thats real tolerant and nonjudgemental.... Pretty much everyone's that flamed him has made it clear it's for his lack of maturity and insulting rather than presenting. I've told him 5 times now, I do believe his position has some merit. He does seem intelligent, but he's so headstrong that his idea is right when faced with someone with an idea different or a heartwrenching lifestory that presents facts that challenge his belief, he throws fits. You know how well that goes over here. l

Aswad -> RE: Abortion (10/8/2007 5:15:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: susie When you can discuss things in the proper way without the use of inflamatory statments such as "abortion is murder" then perhaps people will start to listen to what you have to say. I don't see what's so inflammatory about it. People confuse words with subtly different nuances all the time here on CM without that being considered inflammatory. Abortion is not murder in most jurisdictions. It is, however, always killing, if we're talking about elective abortion. Whether that killing is wrong or not, is a different matter, and views vary a lot on that. Health, al-Aswad.

domiguy -> RE: Abortion (10/8/2007 5:16:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level There's no excuse for putting a baby in a dumpster. But I'm sure you realize that. [X(] What if it was filled with those scat laden balls that the have in the pen at McDonalds or wherever little fuckers can be found? I mean surely there has to be a time when placing a child in a dumpster is appropriate....A very clean dumpster? Here is something for all to enjoy..."Prom night Dumpster baby".....Enjoy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ7eRn8JzsA

SugarMyChurro -> RE: Abortion (10/8/2007 5:16:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chellekitty so in turn you're going to flame him for his relgious views...thats real tolerant and nonjudgemental.... You know, tolerance is a two way street. Those that cut others some slack get cut some slack in return. So, I think you are dead wrong. And CuriousLord is not expressing only religious ideas - he is personally condemning a person he doesn't even know in real life. CuriousLord is spewing nonsense. He calls missturbation an "inhuman monster" and then tries to muddle it a bit. He then heaps all manner of judgment and derision upon her. What could now justify being tolerant to CuriousLord in return? Why can't CuriousLord be more generous in his judgments and opinions first? Why should others now respond to his hateful rhetoric with greater tolerance? There is no reason not to treat CuriousLord with the same condescension and heavy judgement exemplified by his own words and rhetorical style.

susie -> RE: Abortion (10/8/2007 5:20:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: susie When you can discuss things in the proper way without the use of inflamatory statments such as "abortion is murder" then perhaps people will start to listen to what you have to say. I don't see what's so inflammatory about it. People confuse words with subtly different nuances all the time here on CM without that being considered inflammatory. Abortion is not murder in most jurisdictions. It is, however, always killing, if we're talking about elective abortion. Whether that killing is wrong or not, is a different matter, and views vary a lot on that. Health, al-Aswad. I find it inflammatory when a woman who has made a decision (and not an easy one) to abort a fetus that she has been told will not survive to term is called a murderer. You may think it is killing but to call a woman who has had to abort a wanted baby a murderer is inflammatory which ever way you look at it.

laurell3 -> RE: Abortion (10/8/2007 5:20:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: susie When you can discuss things in the proper way without the use of inflamatory statments such as "abortion is murder" then perhaps people will start to listen to what you have to say. I don't see what's so inflammatory about it. People confuse words with subtly different nuances all the time here on CM without that being considered inflammatory. Abortion is not murder in most jurisdictions. It is, however, always killing, if we're talking about elective abortion. Whether that killing is wrong or not, is a different matter, and views vary a lot on that. Health, al-Aswad. Read the whole thread and his comments to women that tell stories of heartwrenching stories of having to chose and then come back and say this. l

Level -> RE: Abortion (10/8/2007 5:21:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: ORIGINAL: Level There's no excuse for putting a baby in a dumpster. But I'm sure you realize that. [X(] What if it was filled with those scat laden balls that the have in the pen at McDonalds or wherever little fuckers can be found? I mean surely there has to be a time when placing a child in a dumpster is appropriate....A very clean dumpster? Here is something for all to enjoy..."Prom night Dumpster baby".....Enjoy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ7eRn8JzsA The only bodies being tossed into dumpsters tonight will be those of the Buffalo Bills. [;)] At least, that's what Whitney told me......

Level -> RE: Abortion (10/8/2007 5:23:29 PM)
A quick aside: CL is not a religious person, so no one should ascribe his opinons to religious views.

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