Any topics on Murtha lying about cold blooded killings (Full Version)

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OrionTheWolf -> Any topics on Murtha lying about cold blooded killings (10/6/2007 11:28:14 PM)

Because so many have been using the word fair and hypocricy, I tried to do a search on the off topic section about Sen Murtha being wrong about saying some Marines killed civilians in cold blood. I couldn't find it. Anyone know what the name of the thread is? Owner 59?

I see alot about a talk show host calling some of our soldiers "phonies" but I thought it would be bigger news that a Senator had lied about some Marines killing Iraqi civilians in cold blood.

Orion



dcnovice -> RE: Any topics on Murtha lying about cold blooded killings (10/6/2007 11:30:22 PM)

Fwiw, Murtha's in the House, not the Senate.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Any topics on Murtha lying about cold blooded killings (10/6/2007 11:32:43 PM)

Yep. My mistake.



Owner59 -> RE: Any topics on Murtha lying about cold blooded killings (10/6/2007 11:52:16 PM)

 The case is still not over.As far as I know,it`s still being investigated/litigated, as we speak.

There has been claims that two of the 4 soldiers were exonerated.With all the bs surrounding the case,it`s hard to get a fix on what`s true,or not true ,at present.

At some point,it will all be made public,by the Pentagon.

The Murtha story,or the hype over Murtha`s statements,are part of an alleged left -wing conspiracy that Rush and co. are cooking up.The story is not even over yet,and the Limbots have Murtha guilty.

Murtha has personal connections within the military,and got inside info about the case,and spoke,based  upon that info,IMO.

My guess,is even if Murtha`s proven correct,the Limbots will still attack him,and for no other reason other than that he`s turned against the Iraq occupation.

BTW,Murtha`s name was also included in the list of "phony soldiers",that Rush talked about,AFTER the original "phony soldiers "comment was made.Which points to Rush making a blanket statement about all soldiers, who appose our occupation of Iraq.



luckydog1 -> RE: Any topics on Murtha lying about cold blooded killings (10/6/2007 11:59:11 PM)

So he declares guilt before the investigation has been finished.  What a great guy.  Murtha is guilty.  No matter what the final result of the trials are, he gave judgement on his fellow soldiers before he knew the truth.  Or does that Innocent untill Proven Guilty not apply to soldiers serving in uniform



luckydog1 -> RE: Any topics on Murtha lying about cold blooded killings (10/7/2007 12:49:53 AM)

"BTW,Murtha`s name was also included in the list of "phony soldiers",that Rush talked about,AFTER the original "phony soldiers "comment was made.Which points to Rush making a blanket statement about all soldiers, who appose our occupation of Iraq."

Nope its a list of soldiers who tell lies to oppose our occupation, and Murtha is on it.  Very significant difference.

Here is a great article about Murtha's role in this incident.  Its from last summer. Notice how many of the things the Nation declares to be fact are total lies, given extra credibility by a sitting US congressman, Murtha.     http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060619/editors2  Why Haditha Matters.

But Murtha is being sued, most likley will be able to use his power to squash the front line soldiers quest for justice, but the story will be told.   A federal judge has ordered Rep. Jack Murtha (D-Pa.) to testify in a defamation case related to the deaths of Iraqi civilians in the town of Haditha in 2005, according to the Associated Press.

"Murtha, a former Marine. accused Marines involved in the "cold-blooded murder and war crimes'' during the Haditha incident. Fran Wuterich, a Marine sergeant involved in the icident, has sued Murtha for defamation over his comments.

According to AP, U.S. District Judge Rosemary M. Collyer wants Murtha to explain why he made this statement and any documents he has related to the incident."  http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/28/politics/politico/thecrypt/main3310709.shtml   Murtha is being forced to testify.

Surley we can all condemn people who slander and tell lies about our fighting men and women, and consider anyone who hides behind thier privledge as a Democratic Representative to slander a soldier (a real one, actually serving and fighting) a scumbag of the lowest order, right?   Or do some folks support slandering our soldiers, and giving propaganda to those trying to kill them?



Owner59 -> RE: Any topics on Murtha lying about cold blooded killings (10/7/2007 11:49:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

So he declares guilt before the investigation has been finished.  What a great guy.  Murtha is guilty.  No matter what the final result of the trials are, he gave judgement on his fellow soldiers before he knew the truth.  Or does that Innocent untill Proven Guilty not apply to soldiers serving in uniform

Actually,I believe a soldier gives up most of his rights,when he signs on.

And how do you know,that Murtha doesn`t know the truth.?

After all , to a neo-con, truth is relative and shifts with the sand.

And in Iraq,there is no law or accountability,so wtf.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Any topics on Murtha lying about cold blooded killings (10/7/2007 12:03:42 PM)

Murtha served in Korea and Vietnam, so if Rush said that, he is just proving he is a prick. My Dad served in both, and he mentions Murtha on occasion. It was some military newsletter that my Dad gets that I saw where there were recommendations to reduce the charges to negligent homicide, and that a full investigation has been done.

What I find that does not add up in Murtha's statement, is that he uses the term cold blooded, and adds hyped from stress at the end. Those two do not equate. When asked point blank if he meant the killings were like "civilians just sitting around a table or standing in a field, and they were shot?", he answered yes, that it was done in cold blood, but again he seemed to add a disclaimer that the marines were hyped up from the stress.

To me it seems that Murtha should not have spoken about it, until the investigation was completed, and if he had inside information, he should have given it to the investigators.

I would rather spending my time holding politicians accountable, no matter the party, than trying to lynch a talk show host that just benefits from the attention.

Orion


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

The case is still not over.As far as I know,it`s still being investigated/litigated, as we speak.

There has been claims that two of the 4 soldiers were exonerated.With all the bs surrounding the case,it`s hard to get a fix on what`s true,or not true ,at present.

At some point,it will all be made public,by the Pentagon.

The Murtha story,or the hype over Murtha`s statements,are part of an alleged left -wing conspiracy that Rush and co. are cooking up.The story is not even over yet,and the Limbots have Murtha guilty.

Murtha has personal connections within the military,and got inside info about the case,and spoke,based  upon that info,IMO.

My guess,is even if Murtha`s proven correct,the Limbots will still attack him,and for no other reason other than that he`s turned against the Iraq occupation.

BTW,Murtha`s name was also included in the list of "phony soldiers",that Rush talked about,AFTER the original "phony soldiers "comment was made.Which points to Rush making a blanket statement about all soldiers, who appose our occupation of Iraq.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Any topics on Murtha lying about cold blooded killings (10/7/2007 12:05:06 PM)

Change the word neo-con to the word politician, in the statement below about truth, and it is a more correct statement. Dems do it too.

Orion


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

So he declares guilt before the investigation has been finished.  What a great guy.  Murtha is guilty.  No matter what the final result of the trials are, he gave judgement on his fellow soldiers before he knew the truth.  Or does that Innocent untill Proven Guilty not apply to soldiers serving in uniform

Actually,I believe a soldier gives up most of his rights,when he signs on.

And how do you know,that Murtha doesn`t know the truth.?

After all , to a neo-con, truth is relative and shifts with the sand.

And in Iraq,there is no law or accountability,so wtf.



luckydog1 -> RE: Any topics on Murtha lying about cold blooded killings (10/7/2007 12:22:49 PM)

You believe a soldier gives up his right to a fair trial?....wow, you really support them.  I wonder why most soldiers vote Republican?



cyberdude611 -> RE: Any topics on Murtha lying about cold blooded killings (10/7/2007 12:27:54 PM)

Murtha should not be publically bashing soldiers who have yet to be convicted of any crime. That is what the conservatives are angry over.



luckydog1 -> RE: Any topics on Murtha lying about cold blooded killings (10/7/2007 12:33:05 PM)

Cyber it goes far beyond that.  It does not happen in a vacume.  His lies about our soldiers commiting attrocities are spread all over the world.  It is propaganda for those who hate America.  Straight from the floor of Congress.  It encourages people to kill our troops.



thompsonx -> RE: Any topics on Murtha lying about cold blooded killings (10/7/2007 12:54:31 PM)

OrionTheWolf:
It seems to me it was back about the end of July or the first part of August that there was a court martial of four soldiers for rape and murder.  If I remember correctly one of them got 110 years.
The link I had for it was from the Yahoo news but when I went to it just now the link had evidently expired.
thompson



luckydog1 -> RE: Any topics on Murtha lying about cold blooded killings (10/7/2007 1:09:19 PM)

Actually thompson, you could look it up pretty fast and find that your memory is very far from reality.  They were declared guilty, by the Anti war movement, the press and people like Murtha.  Not in court.  The court proceedings are happening now.



philosophy -> RE: Any topics on Murtha lying about cold blooded killings (10/7/2007 2:53:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Or does that Innocent untill Proven Guilty not apply to soldiers serving in uniform


...does it apply to the enemies they are fighting?



luckydog1 -> RE: Any topics on Murtha lying about cold blooded killings (10/7/2007 3:08:48 PM)

No, Philosophy it doesn't.  Why would it?  Are you even aware of what we are talking about?



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Any topics on Murtha lying about cold blooded killings (10/7/2007 3:22:35 PM)

Okay here is what I have found out on the the killings. I copied a small section from wikipedia, after confirming the information here.

There is nothing yet that I have read, that supports Murtha's account of what happened. You can easily find the video of Murtha's comments if you google them.

See now this is a concern to me, because it is a politician doing these things. If you notice the amount of attention that this gets, and the stance certain people take, it is obvious that those that cry bias, are often doing the same thing.

quote:


[6] On 9 August, LtGen James Mattis dropped the charges against Lance Cpl. Justin Sharratt, who had been accused of murder, and against Capt. Randy Stone, accused of failing to investigate the incident.[7] On 23 August, the investigating officer recommended charges against Lance Cpl. Stephen Tatum be dropped as well.[8]
On October 3, 2007, the Article 32 hearing investigating officer recommended that Staff Sgt. Wuterich be tried for negligent homicide in deaths of two women and five children, and that charges of murder be dropped.[9]
The final article 32 proceedings are expected to resume on October 29th against 1st Lt. Andrew A. Grayson, who could be charged with inadequate reporting of the incident.



Bufotenin -> RE: Any topics on Murtha lying about cold blooded killings (10/7/2007 6:15:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Actually thompson, you could look it up pretty fast and find that your memory is very far from reality.  They were declared guilty, by the Anti war movement, the press and people like Murtha.  Not in court.  The court proceedings are happening now.


No, thompsonx is referring to the unrelated Mahmudiya incident in which 3 of 4 Army soldiers have already been sentenced for their part in the rape and homicide of a 14 year-old girl and her family. The fourth is to be tried in federal court and the prosecution is pushing for the death penalty.

While Murtha was out-of-line in his statements due to the legal status, the fact that people are turning the Haditha incident, just as they do every other tragedy, into a partisan shit-slinging fest while ignoring the facts of the case is just as disgusting. Regardless of whether it was a cold-blooded murder or just a strategic fuck-up, unarmed civilians were killed, almost 1/3 of those children, and that isn't counting the 5 and 8 year-old who were injured and survived.



thompsonx -> RE: Any topics on Murtha lying about cold blooded killings (10/7/2007 6:52:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Actually thompson, you could look it up pretty fast and find that your memory is very far from reality.  They were declared guilty, by the Anti war movement, the press and people like Murtha.  Not in court.  The court proceedings are happening now.

luckydog:
Is this the soldier who you think was not convicted and sentenced to 110 years in prison?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20116405/
Thank you for suggesting that I look it up...something you also could have done.
thompson



philosophy -> RE: Any topics on Murtha lying about cold blooded killings (10/7/2007 6:56:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

No, Philosophy it doesn't.  Why would it?  Are you even aware of what we are talking about?


....yup.......the application of common law justice in a war zone. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If you want people to be innocent until proven guilty then protest the very existence of guantnamo.



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