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RE: Control of feelings - 10/8/2007 8:39:45 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I can somewhat relate to this.  As a self sustaining masochist and under control cutter, I can say that for me pain helps me deal with emotions.  However, this is not always a good thing.  For the most part I can change the face of emotions by using pain.  But, it does not get rid of the underlying reason for the emotions I am now surpressing.  You use a physical reason for irritability and I agree for me that works.  But what if the reason is not physical?  What if you genuinely are unhappy, tense, angry, sad, ect?  Does that work for you?

I can tell you for me, being that sort of masochist has not always served me well.  I tend to stuff sadness so deep that my body rebels.  Sometimes it is just better to be sad and show it.  I know I wish I could
.Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati

Im gonna type from the opposite point of veiw here for a moment...cause Im one of those subs whos mood actually DOES get changed by physical pain.  My Sir knows that one good evening of being tied up and beaten hard will literally beat the irratibility right out of me for the rest of the month.


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to GhitaAmati)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Control of feelings - 10/8/2007 8:47:18 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Ah yes I see you do use it for other things. I remember doing that.  It worked for many years.
But I didn't learn how to deal with emotions.  Just mask them.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati

and yes...it doesnt only work on PMDD based depression....Ive gotten over quite a few hardships by giving in to some pretty rigid control scenes....


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to GhitaAmati)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Control of feelings - 10/8/2007 8:52:41 AM   
MistressFaye1


Posts: 276
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline 		Kyst,

your inability to allow your emotional pain could be because you were not allowed to do so at some point in your life.  I'm sure there have been times you've actually feared yourself and have had times of not having limits for yourself as it relates to physical pain.

I would like to help you gain insight if you would like to explore this so that you can understand. 

I'm here to help others if possible as I would come to others here if  I needed to.

Mistress Faye

(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Control of feelings - 10/8/2007 10:52:03 AM   
MistressFaye1


Posts: 276
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline 		I've read all of the posts on this topic with interest.  I agree are some that can be forced  into a temporary "better" mood and for the reasons stated.  I do however think it's not the mood that has changed but the body chemistry has and if a person is really depressed it is only a quick fix.  Not only that it is but a short lived rush.

I will respond to this from my perspective as a D.  I take time to know my subs and as strange as it may seem to some, there are a couple of them that need some form of punishment to release their anger and I'm more than happy to oblige because a happy sub/slave is an obedient one.  This need to be pushed and limits tested is the way they release the pent up anger and negative feelings.  they need 'permission' to let go.  I find this to be true with submissives that are in positions of high levels of responsibility and control.  After I break through their inability to let go on their own, I push their limits until it's done willfully.  they are ever grateful for the release.

On the other hand when I know this is NOT part of their psyche and I would not push them, test limits, or punish.  These are the times it pleases Me to know My sub trusts Me enough to come to Me and talk about what is happening...to cry if need be without fearing it would displease Me for him/her to show sadness.  These are the times the bond between D/s can become stronger. 

Some D's forget the human element and feel above showing their soft side.  This can be the prime moment to gain more trust which in turn can help develop total trust in the relationship.  Safewords become a thing of the past because of the level of trust.  Submission becomes sublime because in sadness comes the potential for other doors to open when one feels supported.

Think about your own life... Have Y/you ever had something tragic happen to Y/you and became closer to someone that was there.  Human nature.... 

As some have said it is dangerous to punish soley because of a depresed s/s.  I would love nothing more than to test the theory on Someone that truly believes this is the way to be.

Mistress Faye

(in reply to slaveofKaos)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Control of feelings - 10/8/2007 11:00:19 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		The only way I can see this working is by the endorphin release. If you've had a bad day and flight or fight chemicals are coursing through your system, then maybe a nice session would get them all out and give you an adrenaline high. But that isn't punishment. After all if she stopped by the gym to work out and felt better afterwards you wouldn't consider that punishment.

But "I lied to you yesterday about how I wasn't screwing anybody else, and I don't want to hear anything about me giving you an std so I'm going to beat the crap out of you until you shut up" type punishment? No way that would work for real. Would work for her to fake it until she could pack up his stuff and throw it out on the street for him to gather. I guess it could buy him one quiet night.

(in reply to GhitaAmati)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Control of feelings - 10/8/2007 12:16:38 PM   
iammachine


Posts: 1549
Joined: 1/25/2006
Status: offline 		It could go either way, if said submissive really enjoys punishment and pain, that might very well put them into a good mood. Otherwise... I see it as borderline abusive. Forcing someone to put on a happy face when they aren't generally isn't very good for anyone. 

_____________________________

I still hear you scream... in every breath, every single motion

(in reply to slaveofKaos)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Control of feelings - 10/8/2007 12:48:11 PM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline 		Ach.  Good gracious, there's a lot of confusion here.

If this conversation is going to get anywhere, then:
Define "punishment."
Define "good mood."
Define "forced."

Then, when you have your meanings clear, you can figure out how punishment CAN force a good mood.  Or how punishment could never work and it's abusive and stupid.  Either statement is completely correct depending on your intended use of the words.

Me, I know that I can punish even vanilla or other dominant personalities, which forces them into a good mood, and have them love me for it, assuming that I catch them off guard or even catch them wary but from a surprising angle.  But that's probably because my use of the words are wildly different from the "punishment is abuse" crowd.  At least, I hope that's why; otherwise, they are misinforming you. 

It's a skill.  You can't catch a fish every time you stick your pole in the water, but a good fisherman can tease a meal out of the deal more often than not.  Using controlling, sadistic tactics to improve other's moods is similar to that.

_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to iammachine)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Control of feelings - 10/8/2007 12:54:06 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati

Im gonna type from the opposite point of veiw here for a moment...cause Im one of those subs whos mood actually DOES get changed by physical pain. I suffer from PMDD, so once a month I get irritable, moody, severely depressed, anxious, worried, and angry. I get quite sullen and tend to lash out at everyone around me. My Sir knows that one good evening of being tied up and beaten hard will literally beat the irratibility right out of me for the rest of the month. I cant physically explain it. I dont know if its endorphins, or adrenaline, or more mental....but when I am upset or depressed, physical "punishment" can force me out of that mood faster than anything else. The frustrating thing about my mood swings, is that I generally dont realize they are happening until someone brings it to my attention that Im being a total bitch, or Ive screamed so loud at my UMs that Ive no choice but to realize it. So occasionally, when I dont realize Im being irritable and bitchy to my Sir, halfway through a conversation he will just grab me and force me to the floor and start beating. So to the rest of the world, it would probably be seen as true punishment, that Im being beating for snapping at him or at someone else. I dont know if there is a body chemistry answer for it, or if there is some mental connection in my head, but physical pain is at least for me a very effective way of controlling depression.


I'm not sure that would be at all helpful to longterm depression, but I agree that stimulus can help change a person's mood.  However, what you're describing isn't really "punishment" as the OP suggested, it's more help.  Punishing someone for being human seems ridiculous to me.
l

(in reply to GhitaAmati)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Control of feelings - 10/8/2007 1:04:38 PM   
mistyeyze


Posts: 261
Joined: 9/15/2007
From: oregon
Status: offline 		sometimes, i think i need the catharsis that pain can bring to me...but my Master mainly talks with me & plays with me & holds me & kisses me & shows me how he loves me to help me into a better mood...it just depends on what i am needing...lately, i have been having difficulty with obedience & he pointed out that it seemed as though i was pushing to see if or how he would punish me...we have a date this week in a dungeon where he will torture me to my limits & perhaps beyond & i'm hopeful that will improve my devotion to him...i really hate being "punished", as in disciplined for infractions, but torture & pain & the endorphins that it induces will nearly always put me in a better frame of mind.....

_____________________________

~~linea~~

it's no fun unless you're scared

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Control of feelings - 10/8/2007 1:53:13 PM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:


I'm not sure that would be at all helpful to longterm depression, but I agree that stimulus can help change a person's mood. However, what you're describing isn't really "punishment" as the OP suggested, it's more help. Punishing someone for being human seems ridiculous to me.
l


QFT


_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Control of feelings - 10/8/2007 2:14:17 PM   
iammachine


Posts: 1549
Joined: 1/25/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Ach. Good gracious, there's a lot of confusion here.

If this conversation is going to get anywhere, then:
Define "punishment."
Define "good mood."
Define "forced."

Then, when you have your meanings clear, you can figure out how punishment CAN force a good mood. Or how punishment could never work and it's abusive and stupid. Either statement is completely correct depending on your intended use of the words.


I am so not going to get into another argument of semantics.

To clarify my statements, responding to someone being in less than a good mood with negative reinforcement does not resonate with me at all. Depending on how the person responds to the situation, it could be emotionally damaging. Could be, might not be. There is also a possibility that the exchange is not perceived as a negative reinforcement at all by that person (ie, a masochist). Too many variables without knowledge of a very specific situation amongst very specific people.

I am also of the school of thought that masking emotions is neither changing nor dealing with them. IMO, YMMV, and I'm done.

< Message edited by iammachine -- 10/8/2007 2:16:04 PM >

_____________________________

I still hear you scream... in every breath, every single motion

(in reply to DMFParadox)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Control of feelings - 10/8/2007 2:18:34 PM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Just because somebody see's no evil, hears no evil and speaks no evil, does not mean no evil exists.  Some people build nothing but an illusion around themselves and It's a bit like the proverbial glass house.

(in reply to slaveofKaos)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Control of feelings - 10/8/2007 2:37:45 PM   
KiandPhoenix


Posts: 205
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline 		I have seen this work to good effect. Now first off I must point out that I don't punish with pain. What is being talked about here is giving pain though, and because there is never a negative association with it (I think that is the reason), it has worked out like that for me. Please note I was not trying to force a good mood from either of the people this has worked with for me.

The two women it worked like this for me were:

1. A dancer who worked with Phoenix came and stayed with us for some time. She had previous experience with a dom who was an abuser, and so she was very reserved about us dong some scenes. The first scene relaxed her and she slept hard that night. After that when she had a bad night at work, we would do a scene for an hour and she would be falling asleep several times during the session. She would come out smiling and happy every time. I also should point out that the scenes were very light, and I could almost call them erotic massage, with BDSM instruments.

2. My lady Phoenix will be all sorts of stressed out on occasion, and she will ask for a spanking, or scene. Nothing overly hard, and usually something short. It relieves her mind for a bit, causes her to focus on what is happening, not what was stressing her out. She gets her enjoyment from the pain, and feels safe and relaxed at the end. Again, nothing very heavy.

The change in both cases the change was drastic, and while I would never even suggest that  most people are like this, I think some can benefit from it. The person in question might have a sub who responds this way. Also in both of my examples, the pain was asked for, not forced on them, and again, with me, it never had a punishment feeling attached to it.
~Ki


Edit to add: This is also not how we handle bad moods usually. We are the talking cuddle type mostly.

< Message edited by KiandPhoenix -- 10/8/2007 2:41:21 PM >

(in reply to GhitaAmati)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Control of feelings - 10/8/2007 2:38:07 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveofKaos

I personally like to sit my slave down and talk with him, find out whats going on and then figure out what I can do to help him in whatever is making him feel lously. I like my slave to be in a good mood and always ready to serve with a smile, but I also dont want him repressing or hiding things from me, i'd rather help him work through his problems.


Ditto.  I agree with you.  This guy comes across to me as being frustrated because he has no idea about how to deal with a woman's emotions.  I wonder what his reaction would be if his dick were put in a meat grinder and then tell him to "Happy up, pup"   (I know I'd get a chuckle out of it)

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 10/8/2007 2:40:14 PM >

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to slaveofKaos)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Control of feelings - 10/8/2007 4:16:11 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Yeah my guess is that the guy is using the word "punishment" when he means what most of us would call "attention and a good cathartic beating."

That often does make a masochist feel better, specially if they are feeling down.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Control of feelings - 10/8/2007 4:54:33 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		I took the OP as the guy was forcing "good moods" because  he wanted them NOW for his convenience.  I can see where if the person was a masochist and he  realized she need a beating to cheer up..l then I retract my previous post.  But if the guy has a god complex where when he saunters in the door everyone is to be happy or be beaten. then I stand by my previous post :)

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Control of feelings - 10/8/2007 5:08:52 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Oh yeah, most definitely I know from where my issues stem.  We were not allowed to express emotions as I was growing up.  It was our job to be perfect little examples of what children should be in anothers eye.  My body adapted from a young age.  Avoidance..? I used hives.  Stress..?  I can hurl my cookies faster and quieter than anyone I know.  I was a cutter, still am really, but it is controlled now.  I learned how to mask pain, to hide feelings, to be in control and calm in crisis.  And to use my masochism to make it easier to live.  But it isn't a good thing in the long run. 
When I see other people using their masochism in the way I had to, I feel the need to caution them against it.  I think it is too late for me to relearn, but I make a good example for others.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressFaye1

Kyst,

your inability to allow your emotional pain could be because you were not allowed to do so at some point in your life.  I'm sure there have been times you've actually feared yourself and have had times of not having limits for yourself as it relates to physical pain.

I would like to help you gain insight if you would like to explore this so that you can understand. 

I'm here to help others if possible as I would come to others here if  I needed to.

Mistress Faye


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to MistressFaye1)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Control of feelings - 10/8/2007 5:24:41 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

I'm not sure that would be at all helpful to longterm depression, but I agree that stimulus can help change a person's mood.


Opioid therapy can be helpful in longterm treatment of depression.

The two viable alternatives for that, barring periodic rounds of tolerance reversal, are:
- Regular or semi-regular beatings; becoming popular where opioids can't be prescribed for this use.
- Buprenorphine; mean effective sublingual dose on the order of 1.2mg/day, up to 24mg/day possible.

The latter is usually reserved for treatment refractory cases, due to the "war on drugs".

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Control of feelings - 10/8/2007 5:32:55 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

No one else can control how you feel.


For most people out there, this is just plain false.
To resist requires dissociating your feelings from stimuli.
That is not exactly what most would call a human condition.
And even then, one can still provoke certain basic responses.

Whether through external drugs or causing release of internal ones, you can change feelings.
And pointing a gun at someone is usually a reliable way of inducing fear, for instance.
Causing positive feelings is more complicated, as the best feelings are complex.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Control of feelings - 10/8/2007 5:35:58 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

I'd have to think that anyone who used that sort of metodology needed to be beaten with a clue stick.


Don't know about other argots, but in the technical community, the term "clue-by-four" is common.

That, and LART (Luser Attitude Readjustment Tool), for similar applications.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 40
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