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Abuse: My Last Post On This Topic - 7/27/2005 9:20:56 PM

caitlyn

Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline

You know, there are probably people that overstate abuse or just make it up. There are probably other that have suffered or are suffering through some serious abuse issues.

There are clearly people that want to talk about this topic, for whatever reason. There are others that are clearly bothered by this topic, and want to make an attempt to disprove it or minimize it.

Those that want to disprove it are not the least bit damaged by this topic ... no matter how many threads there are, and no matter who makes the posts, in the end they can just silently walk away, unhurt and unharmed. The most that can be said is that they are annoyed by this topic.

The flip side is the person that has been abused, and has to sit and read as people try to disprove the whole notion, or doubt the reality of it, or just make snide comments ... all in threads that in the end really don't apply to them at all. I would venture to say that some find that a bit hurtful.

If 500 people post stories about their own abuse experience on this website, and only one of them is true ... is it worth it to hurt that one person, just because you are annoyed by the other 499?

< Message edited by caitlyn -- 7/27/2005 9:22:32 PM >

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

Post #: 1

RE: Abuse: My Last Post On This Topic - 7/27/2005 9:53:03 PM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

WHo is doing the most damage? The one who is upset about the drama queens, or the 499 drama queens?

I don't think anyone is suggesting we don't take abuse seriously, but we are saying that it's wrong to overuse or misuse the awfulness of abuse and they won't stand for it.

It would indeed be awful if an actual abused person felt unable to share becuase of it, but think of the actual source of the problem, not the person who is willing to point the problem out.

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 2

RE: Abuse: My Last Post On This Topic - 7/27/2005 10:40:14 PM

mossy

Posts: 189
Joined: 2/21/2005
Status: offline

Emerald:::: could you please explain this to me,,i don't understand

what you meant?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't think anyone is suggesting we don't take abuse seriously, but we are saying that it's wrong to overuse or misuse the awfulness of abuse and they won't stand for it.

It would indeed be awful if an actual abused person felt unable to share becuase of it, but think of the actual source of the problem, not the person who is willing to point the problem out.

_____________________________

~~inner peace & mental clarity~~

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 3

RE: Abuse: My Last Post On This Topic - 7/27/2005 11:26:48 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Yeah, I have to say I can't figure out what that means either.

(in reply to mossy)

Post #: 4

RE: Abuse: My Last Post On This Topic - 7/28/2005 3:15:07 AM

lovingmaster45

Posts: 261
Joined: 9/16/2004
Status: offline

I totally understand what she is saying. I come from a background in criminal jsutice so I have have seen my share of both real and alleged "abuse".
It makes it difficult and it is downright annoying to have some whiny ass make a statement about abuse/rape/assault or whatever and then learn that it is all a lie. You have wasted valuable resources; but worse, it takes your time away from working the REAL cases.
Let me givce you an example from Columbia, SC in the 90s.
A woman was found drunk/stoned on the street. She told the police about being tied up, raped and tortured.
The Sheriff of Lexington County, James Metts made an arrest and then released the suspect. He told everyone there was not enough evidence to keep the suspect. Privately, he called me and I gave him the "rest of the story"; because he knew I was in the lifestyle.

All of the womens groups came out enmasse. The media got VERY involved.
They put a lot of pressure on Sheriff Metts; so he picked up the suspect again. A search of the suspects house revealed a videotape of the woman being tied up, fucked, filled with huge dildos and being burned on her tits by a cigarette.
And she was begging for more.
Of course all this was quickly in the media; but not the part about her asking for more.

So now all the womens groups are howling for the removal of the sheriff because he did not keep the suspect in jail the first time. They all vowed to defeat him at the next election.

All the media attention netted the solicitor what he needed to dispose of the case...5 more videotapes sent ananymously of the woman being tied up/tortured/fucked/and abused by other men...all the time begging for more.

Did I mention that this pain slut drama queen was a former student of mine?

Now do you understand what Emerald was saying?

Can you imagine the time wasted on this?

Can you imagine the political damage it did to womens groups? Well fuck them. Sally Boyd was the head screacher and I enjoyed watching her eat crow.

But how about the next woman who is a REAL victim?

BTW..Sheriff Metts was reelected in a landslide.

_____________________________

Master Jerry

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 5

RE: Abuse: My Last Post On This Topic - 7/28/2005 4:08:20 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

Caitlyn,
I understand your frustration. This is a topic that has been hashed out here on these boards before and I am sure this won't be the last time. The only thing that I can tell you is that I have found my own personal comfort zone in dealing with all of the naysayers. Quite honestly, it comes from really not giving a rat's ass what they think. I know what my reality has been and it matters very little to me if someone wants to disbelieve or pick it apart, it will not stop me from reaching my hand out to help one who needs...even if my hand has to touch 499 drama queens to reach that one who really needs.

Possibly it is because I have been on both sides of this coin, being a survivor of abuse and also being in a position to come in contact with and offer assistance to countless other survivors, but I know that there are not nearly the skewed number of drama queens out there as some here might suggest. In my work the incidence of someone reporting abuse that did not exist was actually quite a low percentage. Maybe that is because shelters are not exactly the nicest place to have to take up residence, they are not the all comfy, warm and fuzzy coddling places that many here might seem to think they are. It is a huge upheaval in to have to start life over with nothing but the clothing on your back, no matter how pretty the curtains might be on the window of your new room at the shelter...but if that is what they choose to believe, well then so be it.

Does it exist...are there those who are seeking nothing more than attention? Well sure there are. Does that mean we should allow them to make us so jaded that we miss out on the opportunity to help the one who comes along who is truly in need? Well I think you already have the answer on that one.

Caitlyn, if you have a story to tell...tell it. If it falls upon a lot of deaf ears...that's ok....you can't enlighten the unenlightenable. But take a bit of comfort in the knowledge that it will also fall upon the ears of one who needs to hear it.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 6

RE: Abuse: My Last Post On This Topic - 7/28/2005 4:18:58 AM

ShiftedJewel

Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Those that want to disprove it are not the least bit damaged by this topic ... no matter how many threads there are, and no matter who makes the posts, in the end they can just silently walk away, unhurt and unharmed. The most that can be said is that they are annoyed by this topic.

I agree 100% with this statement, unfortunately there are people that cannot help but post whether they are making an honest contribution to the thread or not.

quote:

A woman was found drunk/stoned on the street. She told the police about being tied up, raped and tortured.
The Sheriff of Lexington County, James Metts made an arrest and then released the suspect. He told everyone there was not enough evidence to keep the suspect. Privately, he called me and I gave him the "rest of the story"; because he knew I was in the lifestyle.

This is something I have heard about more times then I am comfortable with... there is so much talk about the safety of the submissive/slave... it's high time they realized that they are not the only ones at risk.... and in a round about way... this is also a true story about abuse with the only difference being the "abused" was the dominant.

This is one reason why it is so important to know the person you are planning on "scening" with and have a foundation of trust with them.... it can and does happen more times then not. And it isn't just male dominants it happens to!

But I won't sit here and preach to the choir... I know all to often it falls on deaf ears anyway.

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 7

RE: Abuse: My Last Post On This Topic - 7/28/2005 4:42:36 AM

tinkJH

Posts: 180
Joined: 5/22/2005
Status: offline

Unfortunately, you get a lot of the "Boy who cried wolf" problems. People who claim it is abuse and it is not, then when someone who has truly been abused comes along - no one believes that person. Often is the case with rape victims. Four women falsely say they were raped, and the 5th woman who is - no one will believe or they treat poorly with skepticism.

Then, another tricky subject with abuse - what is abuse? Something abusive to me, might not be abusive to someone else. And who is the big judge on what actually is abusive? A person can come and vent about their Master/Mistress abusing them by having strapped them down and flogged their ass till they were bleeding and just kept on going, not bothering to stop although there was blood and their agreement has always been to stop at the sight of blood. This person could be very emotionally bruised and just need to vent the situation. To them, it was abuse, their limits were not respected. But, to another person who doesn't care if a little blood gets in the way during play - won't view it as abuse.

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

You know, there are probably people that overstate abuse or just make it up. There are probably other that have suffered or are suffering through some serious abuse issues.

There are clearly people that want to talk about this topic, for whatever reason. There are others that are clearly bothered by this topic, and want to make an attempt to disprove it or minimize it.

Those that want to disprove it are not the least bit damaged by this topic ... no matter how many threads there are, and no matter who makes the posts, in the end they can just silently walk away, unhurt and unharmed. The most that can be said is that they are annoyed by this topic.

The flip side is the person that has been abused, and has to sit and read as people try to disprove the whole notion, or doubt the reality of it, or just make snide comments ... all in threads that in the end really don't apply to them at all. I would venture to say that some find that a bit hurtful.

If 500 people post stories about their own abuse experience on this website, and only one of them is true ... is it worth it to hurt that one person, just because you are annoyed by the other 499?

< Message edited by tinkJH -- 7/28/2005 4:43:41 AM >

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 8

RE: Abuse: My Last Post On This Topic - 7/28/2005 5:18:26 AM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tinkJH

Then, another tricky subject with abuse - what is abuse? Something abusive to me, might not be abusive to someone else. And who is the big judge on what actually is abusive? A person can come and vent about their Master/Mistress abusing them by having strapped them down and flogged their ass till they were bleeding and just kept on going, not bothering to stop although there was blood and their agreement has always been to stop at the sight of blood. This person could be very emotionally bruised and just need to vent the situation. To them, it was abuse, their limits were not respected. But, to another person who doesn't care if a little blood gets in the way during play - won't view it as abuse.

That's a very good point Tink. I don't think a lot of people don't really understand how much abuse can affect a persons judgement. Victims of abuse stop trusting themselves, they stop listening to that voice inside that says they're being abused. Or else they realize they are being abused but have by that time reached a point they feel so worthless they feel they deserve no better. Some are just so embarassed and feel so foolish to have let it happen, particularly if its gone on for awhile, that they are too ashamed to stop it. There is a problem, and in my opinion its worst online, of predators using the appearance of BDSM as an excuse for abuse. The only way I know to fight that is for each of us to do what we can to make the difference between informed, consensual play vs abuse as clear as possible. One would hope that would better fore-arm newbies against the predators, enabling them to recognize abuse before they become entrapped in it. And also that it might empower those already victims of abuse under the guise of BDSM to recognize what is happening is abuse and that they need to get out.

You asked above who can judge if something is abuse... the answer is we can. If its non-consenual its abuse. If it violates the negotiated agreement of a play session or of a relationship, its abuse. If it goes beyond the ability of the submissives body (or mind) to self-heal, its abuse. Broken bones are abuse. If "punishment" is done out of rage, its abuse. There are plenty of examples that we can give that are abuse. People need to know that, they need feel confidant knowing it, because their lives may depend on believing it. If we don't stand up and say with confidence, yes, these are things we consider abuse... they won't believe it.

One other thing occured to me. These forums aren't really set up to be a place to help those who are victims of abuse. Most of the people who come here want to talk about and discuss the lifestyle among like minded people. I think, or at least suspect, that many people don't want to hear about abuse because they don't know what to believe and even if they believe it don't know what to do. Its a hard thing to deal with and not everyone is. I'm not suggesting people not talk about it here, I think some discussion is a healthy thing... abuse does happen and we can't simply ignore it or forget. But I would suggest that for those who have been victims and really need to talk about it with people who understand there are better forums available. A friend of mine runs a web site with forums that deals with abuse among other things. There are people there who have been victims of abuse and there are also counselors who can offer advice. Here is the link, for those that need it, I hope it helps.

AskSam Sexual Health Advice

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to tinkJH)

Post #: 9

RE: Abuse: My Last Post On This Topic - 7/28/2005 6:58:49 AM

Faramir

Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

If 500 people post stories about their own abuse experience on this website, and only one of them is true ... is it worth it to hurt that one person, just because you are annoyed by the other 499?

Conversely one might ask: does the one person have a right to hold truth and discourse hostage because it might hurt them? I'd point out there are people who have suffered abuse and don't feel this way, don't feel that a frank, honest discussion of what is true and what is false is hurtful. Choosing to take offense or umbrage at sincere discourse, or even worse, choosing to try and stake out a position of moral superiority based on suffering, is a choice I wouldn't make.

Genuinely snide comments, insincere questions that are really a mask for a jab - that's different of course. Discourse and insult, inquiry and contempt are very different, and certainly no one should be insensitive to another person's suffering or sorrow - never let us ask for whom the bell tolls.

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 10

RE: Abuse: My Last Post On This Topic - 7/28/2005 7:49:36 AM

pinkpleasures

Posts: 1114
Status: offline

caitlyn...your voice should not fall silent. i acknowwledge that people come to the boards, seeking guidance as to the lifestyle, and the discussion of the possibility of abuse is somewhat of a "side issue"; but it one which may prevent serious injury or even death.

i try to understand the "naysayers"; Faramir thinks we overstate the incident of abuse -- but i do not think He means to imply that any woman who bravely shared her story was lying. Emerald seem to think that the need for safety should be offset by stories of risks taken and rewarded with a happy experience. This i do not agree with -- risky behavior should be avoided.

As for me, i'd like to detect the abusers -- and i gave some "cues" on the "Is he a Sadist? An Abuser? A Married Man?" thread, which virtually no one agreed with, but at the end of the thread, we did agree that a woman's INSTINCT and common sense should guide her behavior. If interaction with a Man makes you feel bad -- creeped out; insecure; lonely; etc; cut it off. Your subconscious is sending you DANGER signals.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 7/28/2005 7:50:37 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 11

RE: Abuse: My Last Post On This Topic - 7/28/2005 9:15:58 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkpleasures
This i do not agree with -- risky behavior should be avoided.

What do you consider risky behavior? Walking out the door? Eating a rare steak? A bit of spanking? Anything we DO has its potential risks. The issue is what do we consider a reasonable risk versus an unreasonable one.

And I think it's important to see ALL sides of the issue, not just the ones that make people scared and worried.

Now, to the original topic, my post was saying that we should NOT become upset at the people who point out the problem with wolf-criers, even if it raises a potential of an actual abused person not feeling comfortable. It's the only way to really STOP the problem of wolf-crying, is to face it as an actual real problem, because it is one.

Become upset at the wolf-criers, not the one's who are willing to point out a wolf-crier.

(in reply to pinkpleasures)

Post #: 12

RE: Abuse: My Last Post On This Topic - 7/28/2005 9:36:38 AM

LaMspeach

Posts: 794
Joined: 12/4/2004
From: Philadelphia area, PA
Status: offline

I'm just posting in general and not to any one person.

I have had a really hard time with the abuse threads. Perhaps because i don't understand how anyone other then those that lived the abuse can say if the person was really abused or not. What maybe be abuse for one person May not be for the next. If something effect someone physically or mentally in a bad way couldn't that be considered abuse?

Yes, there are a lot of people that cry wolf but what gives anyone the right to say they weren't abused. No one can judge anyone else's feelings or the effect that said abuse has on them. If some one feels they are abused or has been then it doesn't give anyone else the right to judge them.

There are no black and white answers, after all the world is full of beautiful colors

_____________________________

peach ~ LordandMasters devoted alpha slave
"Only when the year has grown cold does one know that the pine and cypress are the last to wither"

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 13

RE: Abuse: My Last Post On This Topic - 7/28/2005 10:07:01 AM

pinkpleasures

Posts: 1114
Status: offline

LaMspeach...some of what you say is true. Anyone whose safewords were ignored...whose experiences weren't what they expected and aftercare was lacking...there is a grey area. But there is a black area as well. The abuser NEEDS to batter his woman..NEEDS to isolate her...NEEDS to tear her down intellectually, emotionally, spiritually...NEEDS to make her feel she cannot trust her own instincts...there is a definate, ascertainable cycle of calm..followed by an outburst of abuse which cannot be avoided because the woman does not know what triggers it...followed by (in some cases) dealing with the emergency room physicians and the police and so forth...followed by a "honeymoon" in which the abuser promises "never again" and sometimes "we'll get counseling" and often gives the battered woman a gift...and so, with no confidence in herself; isolated from the world; she stays, desparately hoping the abuser means what he says. Naturally, he does not, and the abuse goes on, usually escalating. As i said before, such women generally leave only when (1) he begins to abuse the kids or (2) they have come to believe he means to kill them, and soon. Until then, most battered women are like prisioners of war, trying to appease their capturers and still cling to some sense of themselves.

In my opinion, the most critical decision-point for the woman is that first strike out of anger. If she allows him to mollycoddle his way back into her life with promises that it will never happen again, she will most likely be completely captured for years. However if she leaves then, she will be relatively safe, as he does not yet have a strong enough sense of ownership over her to stalk her and kill her (most of the time).

We should be emphasising that decision-point in conversations with out adult children, and with young women in the lifestyle. There is a HUGE difference between a s/m scene that perhaps did not go well and a closed fist to the belly in ANGER.

Finally..and LaMspeach this is not directed at you...i sense that there is a strong desire on the part of some posters to sweep the issue of abuse of submissives and slaves under the rug. Most of this seems to be coming from Doms and Masters, which confuses the hell out of me, since i thought Doms and Masters were supposed to be protective of women. i am a bit surprised at the "backlash" if it's the right word that has occurred for speaking openly about this problem.

If Doms and Masters were posting about some issue with phoney submissives and slaves, my heart would go out to Them and i'd contribute whatever i could towards helping Them. It is also true that the thread title is used made it readily apparent what the subject matter would be, so if it upset someone, one option was not to read it.

However, those who post and claim abuse is overstated; or claim some submissives and slaves "cry wolf"; or that the presence of abusers on CM is a myth; these people i cannot understand. What are You getting out of Your denial?

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 7/28/2005 10:17:09 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to LaMspeach)

Post #: 14

RE: Abuse: My Last Post On This Topic - 7/28/2005 10:31:13 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkpleasures
There is a HUGE difference between a s/m scene that perhaps did not go well and a closed fist to the belly in ANGER.

Very true, for some people fists thrown in anger make a GREAT scene.

quote:

Finally..and LaMspeach this is not directed at you...i sense that there is a strong desire on the part of some posters to sweep the issue of abuse of submissives and slaves under the rug. Most of this seems to be coming from Doms and Masters, which confuses the hell out of me, since i thought Doms and Masters were supposed to be protective of women. i am a bit surprised at the "backlash" if it's the right word that has occurred for speaking openly about this problem.

I don't think ANYONE is trying to hide anything away, I think it's more just a curiousness over its prevalence. Let's also remember that each incidence of abuse, true or false, is one more mark against "dominants" as a whole and one more tough step to simply being who they are, one more mark against any little mistake being scrutinized and overreacted to.

How often do we discuss abusive submissives? Trust me they exist in droves.

quote:

However, those who post and claim abuse is overstated; or claim some submissives and slaves "cry wolf"; or that the presence of abusers on CM is a myth; these people i cannot understand. What are You getting out of Your denial?

pinkpleasures

It's not denial, its the truth. I've had people tell me that the Owner is abusing me when he has me sleep on the floor. To me that is denying my right to choose for myself what is abuse and what is not.

(in reply to pinkpleasures)

Post #: 15

RE: Abuse: My Last Post On This Topic - 7/28/2005 11:10:25 AM

LaMspeach

Posts: 794
Joined: 12/4/2004
From: Philadelphia area, PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkpleasures

LaMspeach...some of what you say is true. Anyone whose safewords were ignored...whose experiences weren't what they expected and aftercare was lacking...there is a grey area. But there is a black area as well. The abuser NEEDS to batter his woman..NEEDS to isolate her...NEEDS to tear her down intellectually, emotionally, spiritually...NEEDS to make her feel she cannot trust her own instincts...there is a definate, ascertainable cycle of calm..followed by an outburst of abuse which cannot be avoided because the woman does not know what triggers it...followed by (in some cases) dealing with the emergency room physicians and the police and so forth...followed by a "honeymoon" in which the abuser promises "never again" and sometimes "we'll get counseling" and often gives the battered woman a gift...and so, with no confidence in herself; isolated from the world; she stays, desparately hoping the abuser means what he says. Naturally, he does not, and the abuse goes on, usually escalating. As i said before, such women generally leave only when (1) he begins to abuse the kids or (2) they have come to believe he means to kill them, and soon. Until then, most battered women are like prisioners of war, trying to appease their capturers and still cling to some sense of themselves.

In my opinion, the most critical decision-point for the woman is that first strike out of anger. If she allows him to mollycoddle his way back into her life with promises that it will never happen again, she will most likely be completely captured for years. However if she leaves then, she will be relatively safe, as he does not yet have a strong enough sense of ownership over her to stalk her and kill her (most of the time).

We should be emphasising that decision-point in conversations with out adult children, and with young women in the lifestyle. There is a HUGE difference between a s/m scene that perhaps did not go well and a closed fist to the belly in ANGER.

Finally..and LaMspeach this is not directed at you...i sense that there is a strong desire on the part of some posters to sweep the issue of abuse of submissives and slaves under the rug. Most of this seems to be coming from Doms and Masters, which confuses the hell out of me, since i thought Doms and Masters were supposed to be protective of women. i am a bit surprised at the "backlash" if it's the right word that has occurred for speaking openly about this problem.

If Doms and Masters were posting about some issue with phoney submissives and slaves, my heart would go out to Them and i'd contribute whatever i could towards helping Them. It is also true that the thread title is used made it readily apparent what the subject matter would be, so if it upset someone, one option was not to read it.

However, those who post and claim abuse is overstated; or claim some submissives and slaves "cry wolf"; or that the presence of abusers on CM is a myth; these people i cannot understand. What are You getting out of Your denial?

pinkpleasures

Maybe i didn't express my feelings on this topic well enough *sighs* so let me try again ....

What i thought i said or was trying to say was that ,no one can define abuse for anyone else... Abuse is in the eye of the victim. what may be abuse for one may not be for another...

Pink, you used a punch in the belly as an example of abuse. I have seen take down scenes where the submissive was punched and kicked in the belly, knocked down tied up and then used by the Dom as they saw fit all the while the sub is begging them to stop ... I couldn't watch, it effected me in a very bad way. so i moved on to the next scene and watched something else. Just because it would be abuse in my book doesn't make it abuse. The sub in THAT scene consented to that kind of treatment, it was THEIR kink. Afterwards i actually got to talked to the sub and she said it was one of the best scene she has ever had.

I wasn't trying to hide abuse nor define it. If anything, i believe if you feel you have been abused then you have been. No one else should attempted to weed out those crying wolf because you never really know what that person felt.

For me the biggest difference between the s/m scene that didn't go well and abuse is that the sub consents ... ( but see you can't even be black and white here, because there are subs that have consented and the Doms take it to far, doesn't listen to safe words ect). It all goes back to what i originally tried to say.

Last, yes i know all the signs of abuse, i worked with the House of Ruth ( a shelter for abused women and children) as a volunteer, among other things.

_____________________________

peach ~ LordandMasters devoted alpha slave
"Only when the year has grown cold does one know that the pine and cypress are the last to wither"

(in reply to pinkpleasures)

Post #: 16

RE: Abuse: My Last Post On This Topic - 7/28/2005 11:18:47 AM

Faramir

Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline

Got it.

I just figured out what has been puzzling me in this whole discussion. On the one hand I have sympathy for those who have suffered unjustly at the hands of others, and yet I have found parts of this discussion disturbing – the sort of hyper-focus on abuse I mentioned in my thread.

Reading pink’s post has made it clear what was bothering me.

I know a particular kind of Christian who doesn’t talk about God, or Jesus, or their walk with God – the attempt to reform and rehabilitate the divine I-Thou relationship. Instead they speak incessantly of the Devil. They talk about the Devil tempting people, his presence in everyday life, the constant need to be vigilant against him, denial of his power on earth…Devil Devil Devil. Their focus isn’t on Christ, but on the Devil – they are sort of an inverted type of Devil worshiper.

Pink’s post is the same thing. It has nothing to do with sympathy or listening to genuine suffering – it is about abusers, their needs, their craftiness, how they are hiding, what do you get out your denial, hmm Mr. So called Dom, I thought Doms wanted to protect women?, etc.

It is this inverted focus I find so disturbing – what I meant when I said something was “weird” in the number and volubility of the posts. I see in people like pink an ugly focus on well, ugliness, an almost eager desire to paint others with her ugly brush.

Witch-hunts are ugly, and I don’t particularly like witch-hunters.

To anyone who has suffered harm at the hands of another unjustly, if my earlier posts, perhaps less clear and clumsy hurt you, I offer my sincere apologies. I wasn’t trying to finger you – I realize I was trying to finger people like pink.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 17

RE: Abuse: My Last Post On This Topic - 7/28/2005 11:39:27 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

Just total, utter - silence.
And a few tears (I really must beg you to stop making me cry Faramir)

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 18

RE: Abuse: My Last Post On This Topic - 7/28/2005 11:39:58 AM

luvdragonx

Posts: 388
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Caitlyn,
I understand your frustration. This is a topic that has been hashed out here on these boards before and I am sure this won't be the last time. The only thing that I can tell you is that I have found my own personal comfort zone in dealing with all of the naysayers. Quite honestly, it comes from really not giving a rat's ass what they think. I know what my reality has been and it matters very little to me if someone wants to disbelieve or pick it apart, it will not stop me from reaching my hand out to help one who needs...even if my hand has to touch 499 drama queens to reach that one who really needs.

Possibly it is because I have been on both sides of this coin, being a survivor of abuse and also being in a position to come in contact with and offer assistance to countless other survivors, but I know that there are not nearly the skewed number of drama queens out there as some here might suggest. In my work the incidence of someone reporting abuse that did not exist was actually quite a low percentage. Maybe that is because shelters are not exactly the nicest place to have to take up residence, they are not the all comfy, warm and fuzzy coddling places that many here might seem to think they are. It is a huge upheaval in to have to start life over with nothing but the clothing on your back, no matter how pretty the curtains might be on the window of your new room at the shelter...but if that is what they choose to believe, well then so be it.

Does it exist...are there those who are seeking nothing more than attention? Well sure there are. Does that mean we should allow them to make us so jaded that we miss out on the opportunity to help the one who comes along who is truly in need? Well I think you already have the answer on that one.

Caitlyn, if you have a story to tell...tell it. If it falls upon a lot of deaf ears...that's ok....you can't enlighten the unenlightenable. But take a bit of comfort in the knowledge that it will also fall upon the ears of one who needs to hear it.

I like all that you have said, and I too understand the frustration in it all. I read over the posts of the most active members in these debates, and I can see why (don't kill me) Faramir posed the question he did on the other thread. Yes, the drama queens and attention junkies are detrimental across the board. Susan Smith and Jennifer Wilbanks certainly did nothing to help the causes of kidnapped women and children with their selfish actions. How about the questionable circumstances surrounding the Kobe Bryant case or the Mike Tyson case. Did nothing to help the causes of rape victims either. Not to say that the fault is entirely in their hands, our wonderful media system does it's part. The bottom line is that drama queens and wolf-criers are out there, and they are harmful in the effort to give aid to real victims, both by making false claims, and garnering so much of the sought after attention, victims are less likely to want that kind of limelight. Not to mention how critical the public is after finding out their tears and prayers were for some chick who got cold feet??????

There are many many victims of abuse out there. I know. Some are family, some are friends. Some are complete strangers. The overall sentiment I find is that despite these few sensationalists, we still truly want to help victims who want help. That's key- who WANT help. It's unrealistic to try and prevent every single instance of abuse by creating these checklists and arguably unsafe "safety measures". Some really good ideas have come up, like taking a friend to a first, maybe second meeting. Makes sense, it's something you might do in vanilla world. Asking for personal info like a SSN or DL? Doing background checks? JMO, but if you feel you need to go that far, then maybe this isn't your scene. Things like that, as has been stated numerous times, create a false sense of security. So he gives you an SSN. May not know that it's his brothers. You do a background check, comes back clean. Could be he either got away with everything, or hasn't done anything....yet. The point is, all these gestures don't really mean squat in the real world. They equate to snapshots of a person and the sum is much less than the whole in this case. Get to know someone. That's all you can do. If you're ready and raring to scene after laying eyes on him the first time, hey, you're an adult. Enter at your own risk. But if things don't go the way you think they should, lesson learned, and hopefully not a fatal one. Others have stated also that you can do EVERYTHING right and still end up in a bad situation. Know why? Because each human being is unique and no amount of planning or research can give you some magical insight into them. That comes through experience. Hell, there are people who have been married for decades and had no idea hubby had another wife and kids somewhere, or was crossdressing, or gay, or killing dogs in the next county.

Ok, that was longer than I expected to rant, but my bottom line is, stay informed, be aware, and use your best judgement. That's all you can do. For those of us who really want to be there for abuse victims, we should stay vocal, say it over and over "we are here when you need us. We will always be here." There is no one answer to how to KEEP from getting hurt. The one answer to dealing with it, however, should be right here with us.

_____________________________

Never Without Love

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 19

RE: Abuse: My Last Post On This Topic - 7/28/2005 11:41:27 AM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Yes, let's all focus more on Christ, and then there won't be any more abuse.

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 20

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