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Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. - 7/28/2005 7:39:54 PM   
LadySonelle


Posts: 280
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Santa Fe NM
Status: offline 		Just thought I'd add My opinions on involving third parties in the BDSM discipline of Consensual Blackmail.

To enter into such play requires the utmost trust on the part of the consenting blackmailee and the utmost dedication to ETHICS on the part of the blackmailer, the Mistress or Master. This is edgeplay of the highest order and carries potential for severe harm from embarrassment through loss of livlihood, depression, to potential suicide! It is DANGEROUS unless handled like the dynamite it is.

The threat of "exposure" is the kick in the scene, the danger that drives the submissive. Whether it's a "confession letter" a photograph (or several) in dresses, fetish attire, bondage, etc or simply the information that the person is a submissive and is playing with a Mistress.

The danger is to the Mistress equally, in that blackmail is illegal and if the submissive turns on the mistress, can send her to jail! Trust must exist on both sides.

I feel that involving others in the Mistress / slave consensual blackmailing dyad is difficult to do, but not impossible. Each person has several circles of people they know, from next-of-kin to strangers.

The closest circle includes parents, spouses, children, siblings. This inner circle has the most "stake" in the central person. They love and/or depend on the central person. They have an emotional and probably physical connection. Involving *them* in blackmail is not consensual (unless specific consent is given BY the third party!). Their reaction is likely to be shock, profound unhappiness and estrangement from the blackmailee. The blackmailee stands to lose a major portion of their life and emotional support.

The second circle is friends. Some ex-lovers or ex-spouses etc. They have some emotional ties and involving them in consensual blackmail is a greyer area. Their reaction would tend to be shock, possibly anger, some laughter possibly ridicule. The blackmailee stands to be severely embarrassed and possibly lose a portion of emotional support.

The third circle out from the center includes business associates, co=workers, bosses, employees, acquaintances. They have little emotional stake in the central person and have less to lose if involved in consensual blackmail. Their reactions tend to be shock, some laughter, ridicule and possibly even joining in with the blackmailer in the fun. The blackmailee stands to lose employment and also to lose status and be publicly embarrassed.

The final circle is the public at large. Unless the blackmailee is a famous figure, they are far less likely to suffer emotional harm, although embarrassment carries its own pain. The public's reaction ranges from laughter to outright echoing the sordid details to others. The blackmailee suffers embarrassment and humiliation.

While I will not involve the first circle of persons (unless given explicit permission BY that person!) the second third and fourth circles are (depending on circumstances) fair game!

Anyone else have ideas on this topic?

Lady Sonelle

_____________________________

Come to My domain and read My Lessons online! http://www.LadySonelle.com then place yourself beneath My loving Hand!
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RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. - 7/28/2005 8:13:54 PM   
blackwolf99


Posts: 30
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline 		Just for the purpose of my own ignorance could you define 'Consensual Blackmail"

I have to say thats a term I have never heard.

Thanks

(in reply to LadySonelle)
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RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. - 7/28/2005 8:44:24 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		It's a contradiction in terms.

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Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. - 7/28/2005 8:51:49 PM   
LadySonelle


Posts: 280
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Santa Fe NM
Status: offline 		Consensual blackmail is a form of extreme play where the slave/submissive enters into a contract with a Dom/me. The sub gives the Dom embarrassing or incriminating info or pix and addresses of friends or employers and is then required to either perform tasks, give money or other services in order to keep the information secret.

The kick comes in, in the fear of exposure. The fetish is called Consensual Blackmail or "Femme Fatale" in some circles. Many subs have fallen into it by accident. The possibilities for damage are very high and the play is dangerous to both sub and Dom/me

Google the terms to see more.

Lady Sonelle


_____________________________

Come to My domain and read My Lessons online! http://www.LadySonelle.com then place yourself beneath My loving Hand!

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RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. - 7/28/2005 8:55:14 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah, I know, but it's still a contradiction in terms. Blackmail is blackmail. If it's consensual, it's not blackmail. It's play blackmail.

(in reply to LadySonelle)
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RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. - 7/28/2005 9:10:32 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

This is edgeplay of the highest order and carries potential for severe harm from embarrassment through loss of livlihood, depression, to potential suicide! It is DANGEROUS unless handled like the dynamite it is.


quote:

The danger is to the Mistress equally, in that blackmail is illegal and if the submissive turns on the mistress, can send her to jail!


quote:

Their reaction is likely to be shock, profound unhappiness and estrangement from the blackmailee. The blackmailee stands to lose a major portion of their life and emotional support.


quote:

Their reaction would tend to be shock, possibly anger, some laughter possibly ridicule. The blackmailee stands to be severely embarrassed and possibly lose a portion of emotional support.


quote:

The blackmailee stands to lose employment and also to lose status and be publicly embarrassed.


quote:

The final circle is the public at large. Unless the blackmailee is a famous figure, they are far less likely to suffer emotional harm, although embarrassment carries its own pain. The public's reaction ranges from laughter to outright echoing the sordid details to others. The blackmailee suffers embarrassment and humiliation.


God this sounds like a lot of fun. Where do I sign?

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

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RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. - 7/28/2005 9:32:46 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

God this sounds like a lot of fun. Where do I sign?


Thanks for making me spit ice tea all over my monitor.

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

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RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. - 7/29/2005 7:44:09 AM   
LadySonelle


Posts: 280
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Santa Fe NM
Status: offline 		Well, the submissive likes to play with the danger of being controlled by the threat of exposure. some are very 'into' this sort of play.

To say "Bklackmail is blackmail" is the same as saying "A bating is just assault and battery! Anything else is just play beating."

The point of consensual blackmail is that the submissive is teased, goaded, tormented and incited by the Mistress. If She were just to say "Well, right, I've sent the pictures!" there would be only terror and no tease. It's the "Now you know you have to call me at 4:00 every day and be on your knees! You didn't call yesterday. You *know* I could get you in a great deal of trouble don't you, My pet?" that gets the slave (and Mistress) hot under the collar (or whip?)

The slave then stammers "Oh, Mistress, I'm SO sorry, I'll do exactly as you tell me! I had company! I - I couldn't call, but I'll make it up to you!"
and he's ragingly aroused.

At some point, the Mistress may contact the persons around the slave (whose addresses he has given Her) with some innocuous message. "Son, an old high school friend called for you. She said her name was Jane. She said she wanted to get together with you." and that sends the slave into another round of arousal, fear, etc.

If the slave knows the Mistress would NEVER compromise him, t6he game is less exciting. The secret is to balance on a knife edge of "She might.... She wouldn't... would she?"

The difficult part is ending the game. If a Mistress decides she no longer wants to play, it's a bit easier, but if the slave decides he no longer wants to play, it's a harder thing to do... I think that disengagement of the two parties needs to be on a pre-arranged set up, such as the Mistress giving the slave a sealed envelope with a release word which the slave gives when he truly wishes the game to end. Or the Mistress sends the envelope or file of photos back to the slave . The best safeguard for both parties is a good solid contract written out beforehand which stipulates that the mistress will adhere to ethical play and the slave will hold the Mistress harmless WRT legal prosecution.

Such a contract really isn't legal, because you cannot agree to perform an illegal act, which blackmail IS, but it, at least, gives both parties written evidence that she is not a predator and he is acting voluntarily. The conditions of the release from play must be spelled out in the contract and three or four copies made. One goes to the sub, one to the Mistress, one to a trusted third party and possibly another to a fourth trusted party (one for slave and one for Mistress) and the copies that are given to the external parties kept SEALED in order to prove that tampering with the document did not occur.

It is a delicate dance and much harder work for the Mistress because the slave, in order to get his charge, must resist the Mistress' orders. Instead of the eager "Yes, Ma'am, I'll do that!" of the slave who loves to serve, there is balking, whining, etc. and the mistress must provide emotional support while at the same time scaring her slave over and over! On the other hand, the intensity of the play is almost entirely up to the slave! He can just leep the threat a low background prsence by complying with the mistress' demands or he can ramp up the play by becoming fractious.

Of course the very best safeguard for the slave is to provide the Mistress with false addresses for contactees, but that defeats the purpose of the play... to scare the slave and excite him at the same time.

As I said before this is serious edgeplay and requires a great deal of trust on both parts and very high ethical boundaries for both, but particularly the Mistress.

Lady Sonelle

_____________________________

Come to My domain and read My Lessons online! http://www.LadySonelle.com then place yourself beneath My loving Hand!

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. - 7/29/2005 7:52:40 AM   
dommemagnet


Posts: 134
Joined: 10/6/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

It's a contradiction in terms.


That would be an oxymoron (unlike the normal simple moron).

I don't understand the thrill of consentual blackmail either. If it's consentual and based upon trust from both sides, then where's the edge?? If I trust that you won't actually contact family, coworkers, etc. then where's the threat. I would think that in order to derive any exitement out of the practice, there must be some chance that the top will actually follow through with the threat.

Whip me, beat me, make me write bad checks, just don't tell anyone. lol

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RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. - 7/29/2005 9:17:39 AM   
LadySonelle


Posts: 280
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Santa Fe NM
Status: offline 		Well, that was the thrust of the first post: deciding who could be informed if the blackmailee refused to play. There are websites around the Internet where blackmail Mistresses can publish their slaves' photos to humiliate them. Online humiliation is a bit safer than RL but RL humiliation occurs also. If a slave refused to play, but did not give the 'safe word' from the desled envelope, then I would first publish his incriminating photo on a website, then tell the friends he had given me to contact, then the employer, then the close friends... if by the time I'd informed the employer, he had given in or safeworded, that would be that. If he still resisted, I would contact him and demand to know just how far he wanted to take this.

Would I contact next of kin or close friends? I don't know. I would be VERY conflicted! He would be taking the game past MY limits, then. I would most likely stop and re-negotiate or safeword on HIM. :) Myethics would forbid My going the distance. I would never... EVER contact ANY third party without warning the slave I planned to do it. I would give two warnings afther the initial refusal. This gives the slave three chances to comply, apply the safe word or suffer the consequences. he is still, to some degree, in control.

But then in regular BDSM isn't the threat always there that a top will beat a bottom beyond his limits? When a person is in bondage, it is always a life threatening situation... only the attention of both parties to safety lkeeps the play from getting dangerous.

Lady Sonelle

_____________________________

Come to My domain and read My Lessons online! http://www.LadySonelle.com then place yourself beneath My loving Hand!

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RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. - 7/29/2005 10:46:49 AM   
dommemagnet


Posts: 134
Joined: 10/6/2004
Status: offline
But then in regular BDSM isn't the threat always there that a top will beat a bottom beyond his limits? When a person is in bondage, it is always a life threatening situation... only the attention of both parties to safety lkeeps the play from getting dangerous.

Lady Sonelle
[/quote]

This I agree with and understand much like the thread herein on limits. I don't know if I would refer to anything as "regular" BDSM as there seems to be a wide variety of interests, kinks and otherwise perfectly acceptable means to an end.

Absolutely LS, limits are there to be pushed thus providing the stimulation most of us are here to acquire in one form or another. But, if I'm aware a Domme isn't going to cut off my nuts, then the threat of doing so is rather hollow and inefective. If however I know she may hang a bowling ball from them, ooh, ahh (excuse me) then I may be more inclined to toe the line.

I'm sure it works for a number of men, I'm one that would have to know the threat is real before it would work on me. And by the way blackmail isn't one of my triggers unless we're talking about uncontrollable rage. lol

(in reply to LadySonelle)
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RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. - 7/29/2005 3:48:34 PM   
imtempting


Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		With that kind of knowledge off someone does come power but also temptation. If there is a safeword then how is the threat real??

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RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. - 7/30/2005 4:09:09 PM   
LadySonelle


Posts: 280
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Santa Fe NM
Status: offline 		"With a safeword, how is the threat real?"

Good question. But I think what people are missing is that the submissive LIKES to be threatened! Real or not, the fantasy (backed up by knowing that the Mistress really DOES have incriminating or embarassing data) can be very very hot!

I should love very much if Dom/mes or subs who have had consensual blackmail play would add commentary to this thread. There are sites dedicated to this play and Dommes on the Internet who practise it. There are several Yahoo groups and other chat groups which play to this scene.

It is a very new fetish, but plays with ancient themes. I am becoming very interested in it Myself, hence My discussion of it.

Lady Sonelle

_____________________________

Come to My domain and read My Lessons online! http://www.LadySonelle.com then place yourself beneath My loving Hand!

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RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. - 11/13/2005 7:59:46 PM   
niceguysfate


Posts: 3
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadySonelle

"With a safeword, how is the threat real?"

Good question. But I think what people are missing is that the submissive LIKES to be threatened! Real or not, the fantasy (backed up by knowing that the Mistress really DOES have incriminating or embarassing data) can be very very hot!

I should love very much if Dom/mes or subs who have had consensual blackmail play would add commentary to this thread. There are sites dedicated to this play and Dommes on the Internet who practise it. There are several Yahoo groups and other chat groups which play to this scene.

It is a very new fetish, but plays with ancient themes. I am becoming very interested in it Myself, hence My discussion of it.

Lady Sonelle

Blackmail is one of my favorite fetishes. I much prefer to be controlled by the blackmail "stick" than the whip, though I accept both. LadySonelle, I appreciate you bringing this up and so eloquently enlightening folks on this thread.

(in reply to LadySonelle)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. - 11/14/2005 5:32:51 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

It is a delicate dance and much harder work for the Mistress because the slave, in order to get his charge, must resist the Mistress' orders. Instead of the eager "Yes, Ma'am, I'll do that!" of the slave who loves to serve, there is balking, whining, etc. and the mistress must provide emotional support while at the same time scaring her slave over and over! On the other hand, the intensity of the play is almost entirely up to the slave! He can just leep the threat a low background prsence by complying with the mistress' demands or he can ramp up the play by becoming fractious.

LadySonelle


i cannot say "well, now i've heard everything" because i am sure there're be something else next week or next month; but this is really "out there" as far as i am concerned. i don't understand the dynamic; the slave or submissive has to be goaded to serve? But aren't people submissive or a slave due to a deep and abiding desire to serve? As to the Mistress/Master/Domme/Dom doing the "blackmail"; actually outting someone to their family or anyone else is so cruel and does carry a risk of legal proceedings. What about the wants/needs/desires of the people in the "three circles" whose lives will be affected if the submissive or slave is "outted", especially with photographs?

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 11/14/2005 5:37:07 AM >

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RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. - 11/14/2005 5:34:43 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper
But aren't people submissive or a slave due to a deep and abiding desire to serve?

Ultimately sure. That doesn't mean we don't also love to be "forced" and manipulated into it as well.

quote:

As to the Mistress/Master/Domme/Dom doing the "blackmail"; actually outting someone to their family or anyone else is so cruel and does carry a risk of legal proceedings. What about the wants/needs/desires of the people in the "three circles" whose lives will be affected if the sbmissive or slave is "outted", especially with photographs?

Yes, that really makes it intense and scary doesn't it?

(in reply to candystripper)
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RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. - 11/14/2005 5:38:10 AM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		It's a fetish..and has little to do with dominance and submission as most understand d/s to be.

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


Visit My Website


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RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. - 11/14/2005 5:41:30 AM   
plantlady64


Posts: 755
Joined: 5/19/2005
Status: offline 		Hello There,
Blackmail in my opinion is a dirty way to manipulate someone.
Usually this is due to not commanding your authority on your own enough to access consent or trust.
This is a weasel’s way of making something happen in my book.
Why on earth would you wish to play with that for real?

I could see in a 1-3hr scene mind fu**ing someone with the idle threat of this.
To follow through is just horrendous in my book.
What would happen to the trust factor that's essential in play with someone?
Sincerely Confused,
sub suzanne

(in reply to LadySonelle)
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RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. - 11/14/2005 6:04:50 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: plantlady64
Why on earth would you wish to play with that for real?

Why on earth would someone want to be beaten and bruised all over their back and butt?
quote:


What would happen to the trust factor that's essential in play with someone?
Sincerely Confused,
sub suzanne

That's the essence of fearplay.

(in reply to plantlady64)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Consensual Blackmail and Third Parties. - 11/14/2005 6:10:18 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I've never seen "consensual blackmail", but I do recall seeing the profile of sub who was "blackmail curious".

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 20
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