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RE: The ice is melting on Mars - 10/12/2007 11:30:54 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		we was swindled!!!

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RE: The ice is melting on Mars - 10/12/2007 11:44:56 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Be sure to save all of these clever global warming jokes. Your great grandkids will enjoy reading them in their storm cellars. Their many friends will too, since a good part of the world has become uninhabitable, things are a little crowded in the bunker. It gives them something to think about besides food.


You "Global Warming Warriors" sound just like the Holy Rollers!
Oh? And just WHEN is the Saviour going to be comming back to "rapture" you?"
"He'll be back, you'll see, sometime "in the future".
"You're grandkids will know!"
"My grandkids, ok then can you give me a five year window?"
"It doesn't work like that!"
"Ok, then how exactly DOES it work?"
"Blank stare."
With the Global Warming Warriors, the Holy Rollers, the "Earth is comming to and enders" Muslims ever notice that everything is always sometime vaguely "in the future" with these people?
"What? Next Millenia?"
"Gee, I guess that nails it down.
And, if you don't "believe" what "they" "believe" you're a heathen, non-believer, ignorant, fill in the blank.
There is simply no room for *any* dissenting opinion with these lug nuts.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 10/12/2007 11:48:04 AM >

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RE: The ice is melting on Mars - 10/12/2007 12:03:55 PM   
murmur


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


Do you have a single source for any reputable scientist saying human action was the sole source of global warming?




Hubert Reeves.

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RE: The ice is melting on Mars - 10/12/2007 12:06:32 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: murmur

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


Do you have a single source for any reputable scientist saying human action was the sole source of global warming?




Hubert Reeves.


...googled him and got a lot of stuff about his Astrophysics.........do you have a link to the argument you say he has advanced?

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RE: The ice is melting on Mars - 10/12/2007 2:24:16 PM   
sundownhawk


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Status: offline 		Interesting question, I think we should launch Al Gore as soon as possible to go find out what is going on.

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RE: The ice is melting on Mars - 10/12/2007 2:28:58 PM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		no one remebers the mars rover?

no ice. it was very hot

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RE: The ice is melting on Mars - 10/12/2007 3:07:48 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		My view, scientists will mouth politically correct words to ensure future funding,politicians will jump on anything new to ensure they will be listened to.The planet is warming they say,well,so what,it has warmed before and cooled before,the world does it's own thing.Yeah,we are using the worlds natural resources at an alarming rate, and poisoning the enviroment we live in,but warming the planet I don't think so.There are other reputable scientists that have other theories on why the planet is warming,but it is not politically correct,they get ignored or else the same scientists talk quietly so as not to destroy any possiblity of future funding or be labelled a crack pot,the death knell to any career.

Whether it is us or not that is causing the changes,I want to hear the whole story,all the evidence for and against,words of science uttered by scientists not politicians as politicians only exist to ultimately serve themselves.

Sorry to offend you there in the US,but Al Gore,I will not believe his words when he has used so many innacuracies in his much acclaimed film on global warming, and hey,he was so he says the ex next president.Whatever,he is a politician.

Maybe I am right, maybe I am wrong, maybe I am just cynical, but what is going on with all this is plainly disturbingand I do feel there is a swindle in there somewhere.

Hey,we are even furthering the poverty in third world countries by our insistance in helping them,but in an enviromentally friendly way, no, they can't have fossil fuel fired power stations,but with all that sun,they can have state of the art solar power, a technology still in embryonic form.Good of the western world to test its technology on the third world.

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RE: The ice is melting on Mars - 10/12/2007 3:15:04 PM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

no one remebers the mars rover?

Which one?

quote:

no ice.

No ice where the rovers were, you mean.  The ice is on the planetary poles, which is thousands of miles from where the rovers landed.

quote:

it was very hot

Really?  How hot was it?

~stef


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RE: The ice is melting on Mars - 10/12/2007 4:11:18 PM   
Zarine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Yeah but this doesnt have anything at all to do with the ice caps melting on earth according to the global warming alarmists....

Global warming can't possibly be anything natural so we need to just discard this evidence and concentrate on fossil fuels being the sole cause.

Do you have a single source for any reputable scientist saying human action was the sole source of global warming?

I do so love how anti enviromentalists always insist that any tiny shred of evidence that some natural event has some effect on temperature completely discounts the fact that human activity has put enough CO2 into the atmostphere to change the concentration by almost 100ppm in 250 years.


250 years ago we didn't have the technology to record how much CO2 we put into the atmosphere.  For that matter it's only been perhaps the last 100 years that we've started recording actual weather data.  People just assume that the weather on this planet is always going to stay the same and that just isn't true.  I mean honestly, Africa used to be a swamp.  Geologists can prove through emphirical data that the weather around the world was different at many different points in history.  All of the global warming stuff about how much humans have effected the environment is mostly based on models.  They do not have enough data over a long enough period of time. 

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RE: The ice is melting on Mars - 10/12/2007 4:14:37 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

According to the Mars Global Surveyor camera, it appears the Martian polar ice caps are melting and there is an increase of Co2 on the planet. This begs the thought that if the polar ice caps on another planet are melting, would it not seem a coincidence that our planet's ice caps are melting. There is no man and industry on Mars, the only common factor is the sun. So is it really the sun that is causing the melting problems on earth and maybe the increase in carbon dioxide?

http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2005/09/20/spolar4years/



Al is really going to have to get up there and have a talk with those martians!  They have to clean up their act and reduce spacxeship co out put by 60% and get their carbon footprints in line or they will suffer the smae fate as the earth..


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RE: The ice is melting on Mars - 10/12/2007 6:02:08 PM   
ChicagoSwitchMal


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Joined: 9/9/2007
Status: offline 		You guys should try to get a copy of "the great global warming swindle". I know google video and youtube have clips. Maybe you Brits have a better source. It discusses flawed research by Al Gore and believers. it has interviews by scientist who were listed as concuring with the report despite repeatedly trying to get off the list. etc etc. It's an interesting documentary. One thing I want to clear up. No scientist denies that global warming is happening. But there is seriously disagreement as too how much humans are contributing to it. I try to keep a balanced opinion becuase there's one thing I know for sure. Global Warming fears has become an industry as equally untrustworth as any other industry. Books are sold and books speaking of catatrophy sell better than books that say it's a happy world. Speakers become rich selling the idea... etc...Everything has to be taken with a grain of salt.  

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RE: The ice is melting on Mars - 10/12/2007 6:06:36 PM   
FullCircle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

According to the Mars Global Surveyor camera, it appears the Martian polar ice caps are melting and there is an increase of Co2 on the planet. This begs the thought that if the polar ice caps on another planet are melting, would it not seem a coincidence that our planet's ice caps are melting. There is no man and industry on Mars, the only common factor is the sun. So is it really the sun that is causing the melting problems on earth and maybe the increase in carbon dioxide?

http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2005/09/20/spolar4years/


I thought they only just found out the planet had water and now they can tell ice is melting? So you have to ask yourself with such limited knowledge of the climate cycle of mars how could they or anyone else say it’s to do with anything? In ten years it might freeze again and we’ll all still be none the wiser as to what goes on on mars.

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RE: The ice is melting on Mars - 10/12/2007 6:44:46 PM   
herfacechair


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quote:



ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

This isn't even old news, it's pre-historic almost. It has been known for quite a few decades now that the sun will be at the height of one of its cycles around now and that there would be some climate warming. However, just to disappoint you, this has been all factored in to the climate models and the crucial figure that is always needed to make the equations work, is the man made carbon emissions. The surveyor is only reporting what one would expect.


There are millions of variables that affect climate in the real world. It’s practically impossible to factor every last variable into the climate models. I’ve even read somewhere that they don’t even factor cloud affects in.

As for historic event, most the current warming took place prior to the middle of the 20th century. A recent NASA adjustment of our temperatures over the past few years returned the warmest decade title back to the 1930s.

As for human carbon emissions. They constitute a small fraction of one percent of the total greenhouse emissions into the atmosphere.

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RE: The ice is melting on Mars - 10/12/2007 6:47:48 PM   
herfacechair


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Yeah but this doesnt have anything at all to do with the ice caps melting on earth according to the global warming alarmists....

Global warming can't possibly be anything natural so we need to just discard this evidence and concentrate on fossil fuels being the sole cause.


Good point.

What these alarmists don’t tell people is that the ice caps as a whole aren’t melting. The ice caps on the edges are melting, especially during the summer months. But the interior of the Antarctica and Greenland ice caps are actually getting thicker.

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RE: The ice is melting on Mars - 10/12/2007 6:50:15 PM   
herfacechair


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Be sure to save all of these clever global warming jokes. Your great grandkids will enjoy reading them in their storm cellars. Their many friends will too, since a good part of the world has become uninhabitable, things are a little crowded in the bunker. It gives them something to think about besides food.


If solar sunspot activity continues doing what it’s doing now, our grand kids will be dealing with a longer winters and cold seasons. The last time the sun acted this way was prior to the Little Ice Age.

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RE: The ice is melting on Mars - 10/12/2007 6:55:45 PM   
herfacechair


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I do so love how anti enviromentalists always insist that any tiny shred of evidence that some natural event has some effect on temperature completely discounts the fact that human activity has put enough CO2 into the atmostphere to change the concentration by almost 100ppm in 250 years.


I don’t believe that humans are causing global warming. That doesn’t make me an anti environmentalist. I’m a big fan of alternative fuels. Even purchased solar powered items. I don’t believe in destroying the environment.

Having said that, here’s something to ponder.

Approximately 95% of the total CO2 emmissions into the atmosphere are natural. Human industrial and urban activities contribute up to 5%.

CO2 isn’t the bulk of the greenhouse gases either. Water vapor constitutes the vast majority of the greenhouse gases. Together, human industrial and urban activity contributes a small fraction of 1 percent of the total green house gases released into the atmosphere.

Contrary to what alarmists say, CO2 doesn’t cause warming. It’s the other way around. Ice core samples show that temperature rise always preceded CO2 rise, and a temperature drop always came before a CO2 temperature drop.

Temperature affects CO2 levels, not the other way around.

As for the 100 ppm rise in 250 years statement, that’s based on fudged data.

The CO2 level graph that shows a sharp increase from the industrial era to today is based on combining direct measurement and indirect measurement methods.

They took the CO2 level from ice core samples up to 1881. Then they take the direct atmosphere measurement methods from the 1950s. They joined the graphs, actually overlapping them to create one graph.

Not only do you have decades of measurement missing, the CO2 measurement in the ice core sample for 1881 is actually HIGHER than the direct measurement CO2 for the early 1950s.

So there’s an overlap between direct and indirect measurements.

We’ve had the ability to directly measure CO2 for two centuries. Direct CO2 measurements taken in the early 19th century actually recorded CO2 levels at 400 to 500 parts per million.

Both methods show that there was a drop in CO2 levels between the late 19th century and the middle of the 20th century. That makes sense considering that there was a temperature rise before a temperature drop about two centuries earlier.

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RE: The ice is melting on Mars - 10/12/2007 7:00:48 PM   
herfacechair


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

As the rein of our civilization progresses on earth we become more and more capable of changing for good or bad the environment around us. It may be wise to stop the silly argument of why global warming is happing. Wouldn’t it be better to work together and find solutions to the problems it is causing?

At least lets stop pointing fingers and try to determine if it will really affect us and what we can do if anything about it.
Butch



Even if we did everything possible to stop our contribution to global warming, if the planet is going to warm up in the future, it’ll do so without our help--like it’s done in the past.

There has been periods during the current interglacial period (Holocene Period) when the world was warmer than it is now. The warmest of those periods was the Holocene Maximum. We didn’t have industrialization during that period.

What would be even worse is if people did everything they could to “prevent” global warming, when the planet may be showing signs of entering another cold period like the Little Ice Age.

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RE: The ice is melting on Mars - 10/12/2007 7:06:07 PM   
herfacechair


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChicagoSwitchMal

I think it's curious that they can not accurately predict the weather from week but, using the same models, say with authority that the oceans will rise, the ice caps will melt, and were all doomed. *just and observation*


That’s a good observation.

Yesterday, I watched them average this area’s hourly temperatures down by one degree. This happened twice.

That observation is something that people should factor in when considering people’s predictions based on climate models that fail to incorporate every single variable that affects real world climate.

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RE: The ice is melting on Mars - 10/12/2007 7:11:42 PM   
herfacechair


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

........ try and predict, in detail, the movements of a NASCAR car over a period of a few seconds.....i mean, in nano-centimetre detail. Very very tricky.....but when we pull back our perspective the behaviour of such a car becomes a lot easier to predict, ie round and round.
Weather prediction, as opposed to global climate, is very very short term......perspective is a wonderful thing.


This is an apples to oranges comparison.

There’s allot more variables and factors at play in our atmosphere than in a controlled and limited area of a race track.

Especially when you have cases where many official thermometers are placed in areas that’ll give heat biased readings. Such as thermometers on chimney stacks or near asphalt and barbecue pits.

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RE: The ice is melting on Mars - 10/12/2007 7:15:16 PM   
herfacechair


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Meatcleaver

You can't dig up one credible scientist to say global warming is not happening and that it is not due to human activity.

But keep your head in the sand, ignorance is bliss.


The argument isn’t about whether global warming is happening or not, but on who, or what, is causing it.

And there are allot of credible scientists who dispute the theory that humans are causing global warming.

I think the first link leads to someone that’ll tell you that global warming is happening, but who doesn’t believe that we’re responsible for catastrophic global warming.

http://www.iceagenow.com/Climatologists_Who_Disagree.htm

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