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Intellect and BDSM - 7/29/2005 2:02:52 AM

luvdragonx

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I recall a conversation I had with a friend who remarked on the seemingly higher number of quite intelligent people, statistically, involved in BDSM. I'll further clarify this assessment by saying this is based on interaction via the web as well as RT. I thought about his observation and can agree that many of the people I've met and interacted with through BDSM channels have been very intelligent, as opposed to meeting people through vanilla channels. Anyone else noticed this? Or have I been extremely lucky?

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RE: Intellect and BDSM - 7/29/2005 2:20:46 AM

wetsub000

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I must have met the statistically smaller number of bozos.

Actually your post confused me. At first you say 'seemingly higher number' and then 'statistically'. As a statistic is a researched quantity, I'm wondering which this is ... a gut feeling or a researched quantity. Have you and your friend been keeping count on a scorecard as you chat?

I suspect that BDSM might just be ordinary and have an ordinary variation in intelligence, but then I haven't been keeping stats. Of course there is research to show that the higher in intelligence you are the more likely you are to suffer from mental illness, so perhaps that is also true for 'sexual aberration' as well.

Does anyone have something concrete to offer on this topic?

(in reply to luvdragonx)

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RE: Intellect and BDSM - 7/29/2005 2:22:44 AM

DublinSwitch

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Can't say I have noticed the same thing...in fact possibly the opposite, in terms of online people that I have met. People I have met in r/l seem to be just a normal bunch with the usual mix.

In terms of online people - well I would say that while some have been kinda dumb, most are hugely well-endowed with a rather vivid and active imagination...and that a lot of them don't really use it in a positive way.

DS
(who has a towering intelimenect, only just matched by his equally towering lib..libeed...leebidoo...err...sex stuff)

(in reply to luvdragonx)

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RE: Intellect and BDSM - 7/29/2005 2:30:06 AM

luvdragonx

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Geez. Ok, change statistically to categorically. Or of a higher percentage. As an example, if I met 10 people through vanilla channels, approximately 4 are bright, articulate and diverse in their interests. Through BDSM channels, that number jumps to 7 or 8 out of 10.

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RE: Intellect and BDSM - 7/29/2005 3:30:50 AM

darkinshadows

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Intellegence should never be mistaken for intellect.

Intellect lacks compassion. Intellegence has it.

Peace and Love

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RE: Intellect and BDSM - 7/29/2005 3:43:50 AM

domtimothy46176

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I recently made a similar observation and wondered the same thing: Have I simply had good fortune in my acquaintances or do those involved in WIITWD trend toward greater intelligence. Thus far I've had two similar theories offered as possible explanation. The first is that those who are less intelligent are sufficiently intimidated to avoid contact and therefore I remain blissfully unaware of their existance. The second is that I've simply been lucky to avoid the normal mix that exists in similar proportion as in vanilla society.
I will note that while I have been blessed to become acquainted with many wonderful folks who participate in various aspects of BDSM and the overwhelming majority have been intelligent and articulate, the successful relationships are still few and far between.
Timothy

(in reply to luvdragonx)

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RE: Intellect and BDSM - 7/29/2005 4:26:54 AM

LadyShoshin

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From: Burlington, Ontario
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quote:

ORIGINAL: luvdragonx

I recall a conversation I had with a friend who remarked on the seemingly higher number of quite intelligent people, statistically, involved in BDSM. I'll further clarify this assessment by saying this is based on interaction via the web as well as RT. I thought about his observation and can agree that many of the people I've met and interacted with through BDSM channels have been very intelligent, as opposed to meeting people through vanilla channels. Anyone else noticed this? Or have I been extremely lucky?

I believe to have the level of self understanding and self awareness required by RT BDSM requires a certain level of intelligence. The intensity and depth of communication needed to sustain a D/s relationship also requires not only intelligence, but wisdom.

Online is a different kettle of fish, you may have quite a few highly educated people, but you also get any Yaaboh who can access a library terminal coming on spewing "On your knees & suck my d**k" or "i want 2 b ur sleve, u r buteful ledy, du what u want 2 me"

I prefer real time so I can look in someone's eyes and have an actual conversation beyond s/a/L.

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(in reply to luvdragonx)

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RE: Intellect and BDSM - 7/29/2005 6:37:24 AM

MsIncognito

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I think you've just been lucky. I think that most who participate in online forums such as this are likely on the higher end of the intelligence scale. This is a written medium and requires a certain level of intelligence/education to be able to express ones self and be understood by others. In real time communities I've found a VERY broad range in terms of intelligence. I also think it's important to note that intelligence doesn't necessarily mean the individual has any people skills. Ability to relate to others is, in my experience, entirely exclusive of intelligence. I've also met many people in BDSM circles who are truly, and sadly, damaged in some way and use BDSM as "therapy" of some sort (some consciously, most not). Those are the ones who really worry me.

< Message edited by MsIncognito -- 7/29/2005 6:41:29 AM >

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RE: Intellect and BDSM - 7/29/2005 7:28:41 AM

EmeraldSlave2

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Amusing after all the other threads you read about dorks, players, HNGs, abusers and otherwise idiotic people around.

People in bdsm are just like everyone else.

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RE: Intellect and BDSM - 7/29/2005 8:40:16 AM

sub4hire

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I know some people with incredibly high IQ's. None of them are interested in the lifestyle.

Actually, I'd be one of them to think it is otherwise. The lifestyle has more average folks within it rather than super beings. For lack of a better term at the moment.

The one predominant factor I do see within the lifestyle is a loss of self esteem amoung most. I don't exactly identify self esteem with IQ.

Perhap's you are seeing the lifestyle through your own self made rose colored glasses.
We all have them, they just come in different shades.

(in reply to luvdragonx)

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RE: Intellect and BDSM - 7/29/2005 9:24:53 AM

sweetsurrender4u

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quote:

undefined

You're observaton is quite accurate. I belong to another BDSM site and it lists levels of educaton and the "true" (verses the wanna-be's) Doms/subs are sucessful and prominant people. Yes, I realize that people can lie on the form. However, every Dom I have communicated with or met has been very educated and (believe it or not) a gentleman in public. They open doors, hold my chair and treat me like a lady.

The Doms I've met where all sucessful, educated and confident in their role. I personally seek out the more intellegent. In my opinion, they have more self control, more imagination, can control a sub mentally and know exactly what they want from a D/s relationship.

(in reply to luvdragonx)

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RE: Intellect and BDSM - 7/29/2005 9:28:26 AM

Faramir

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I'm sure there are people into BDSM that would love to think this is true, but I doubt it. Until someone shows me clinical evidence, I'm gonna guess this is anecdotal chauvanism.

(in reply to sweetsurrender4u)

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RE: Intellect and BDSM - 7/29/2005 9:30:51 AM

darkinshadows

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Possibly, because they are BDSM 'sites' - ie - online, intellect is easy to fane... intellect does not mean someone is intelligent. I think one may mistake good manners and upbringing for the cold and harsh reality of intellect. Just because someone does not open the door for you, doesn't make them any less 'real'... only less real to you.

Peace and Love

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.dark.

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RE: Intellect and BDSM - 7/29/2005 9:33:55 AM

BlkTallFullfig

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyShoshin
I believe to have the level of self understanding and self awareness required by RT BDSM requires a certain level of intelligence. The intensity and depth of communication needed to sustain a D/s relationship also requires not only intelligence, but wisdom.

I agree with this statement completely, and essentially with the OP.

quote:

Online is a different kettle of fish, you may have quite a few highly educated people, but you also get any Yaaboh who can access a library terminal coming on spewing "On your knees & suck my d**k" or "i want 2 b ur sleve, u r buteful ledy, du what u want 2 me"

This part had me ROTFLMAO

M

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(in reply to LadyShoshin)

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RE: Intellect and BDSM - 7/29/2005 9:42:39 AM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

I'm sure there are people into BDSM that would love to think this is true, but I doubt it. Until someone shows me clinical evidence, I'm gonna guess this is anecdotal chauvanism.

Studies of "sadomasochistic lifestyles" in the 80s and early 90s did show that people who engaged in BDSM activities were college educated or beyond and appeared to be on the intelligent side. I remember reading all these things when I was 16 and trying to figure out what I was into. These were articles in "Journal of Sexuality", etc.

I just did a quick search and found one type of study that states this.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_3_36/ai_61487447

"Compared with the Finnish population at large (Statistical Yearbook of Finland, 1993), where about 10% have a university or college degree, the present sample clearly had a higher level of education. This difference was significant, [chi square] (4, n = 185) = 590.69, p [is less than] .001. The present population also had a significantly higher income level than the population in general, [chi square] 2(4, n = 162) = 99.68, p [is less than] .001. Further, the employment distribution also differed significantly, [chi square] 2(4, n = 180) = 108.47, p [is less than] .001. A large number of the participants were working in white collar occupations: Only 14.1% were working in industry compared with about 40% in the general population."

Granted, this is just one study -- I didn't even read the whole thing. But I do recall a lot of the studies I read came back to intelligence and IQ.

In my personal experience this is not true; however, when you use the Internet as your sample vs. researching "lifestylers" at a kinky club like the study above, you get a lot of people who really just are looking for kinky sex.

Akasha

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RE: Intellect and BDSM - 7/29/2005 9:55:45 AM

EmeraldSlave2

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I've had a running theory about that. The people we are talking about are the ones who can go public, the ones who have the TIME and the MONEY to invest in a fairly expensive hobby. We're people who have computers, internet access, and leisure time to spend not only DOING kinky stuff (which takes time and money in itself) but TALKING about
doing kinky stuff too.

That usually means we're fairly well off on the global scale of things, which usually translates into fairly successful careers and lifestyles overall.

So it's hard to say given the sample we're using which is related to which. I don't think it takes higher intelligence to do bdsm, no more than it takes higher intelligence to climb mountains or fix cars. And I don't think it takes higher intelligence or understanding to have a healthy relationship. I have seen NO evidence the bdsm type relationships survive, last longer, work harder, are more secure, more trusting or in any general way better than vanilla type relationships.

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RE: Intellect and BDSM - 7/29/2005 9:57:52 AM

fastlane

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It's what we want to believe

Kinda like firemen who claim to have longer hoses.

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RE: Intellect and BDSM - 7/29/2005 10:03:02 AM

darkinshadows

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darrum - where IS Lrod when one needs Him?

Peace and Love

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.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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RE: Intellect and BDSM - 7/29/2005 11:39:32 AM

luvdragonx

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Several responses so far, and some interesting viewpoints.

quote:

So it's hard to say given the sample we're using which is related to which. I don't think it takes higher intelligence to do bdsm, no more than it takes higher intelligence to climb mountains or fix cars. And I don't think it takes higher intelligence or understanding to have a healthy relationship. I have seen NO evidence the bdsm type relationships survive, last longer, work harder, are more secure, more trusting or in any general way better than vanilla type relationships.

To clarify for those, who may think otherwise, I wasn't trying to suggest that intellect or intelligence was required, necessary, or a pre determining factor for wiitwd. Intelligence is the ability to learn and adapt, not a measure of what you know. Never said one way was any better than another, just making an observation about THIS way.

Also, while I've been highly impressed with my experience on these boards, I probably should have left online out of the equation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

Amusing after all the other threads you read about dorks, players, HNGs, abusers and otherwise idiotic people around.

True dat. There have been several other discussions about the availibility of the internet coupled with the anonymity the internet provides changing the 'flavor' of the BDSM community.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyShoshin
I believe to have the level of self understanding and self awareness required by RT BDSM requires a certain level of intelligence. The intensity and depth of communication needed to sustain a D/s relationship also requires not only intelligence, but wisdom.

This is pretty much what I said to my friend when we were talking. It takes a certain mindset and willingness to learn, change, and communicate to have a satisfying BSDM experience.

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RE: Intellect and BDSM - 7/29/2005 3:29:09 PM

pat512

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I'm skeptical about the link to intelligence. I think, as other posters have indicated, the fact that most people find BDSM communities on-line biases the sample -- the more so, the further back in 'net history you go.

I suspect the real link is openness to experience, which is not particularly strongly correlated with intelligence. I notice a lot of overlap among BDSMers, pagans/wiccans, SF fen, and roleplayers, which all draw on openness to experience, and most of whom believe their group to be above-average intelligence.

Pat

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Post #: 20

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