RE: War on Drugs.

RE: War on Drugs. (Full Version)

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velvetears -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/19/2007 4:56:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears Why would i waste my time in posting any cites when all it's going to be is for naught anyway. As i said earlier people believe what they want to believe, based on their life experiences, it's human. i have no real interest in changing your pov, just stating my own. If you're going to state your own pov, why post cites to 3 websites which only appear to provide support, but don't support your contention in any way? The simple fact that the ONLY somewhat credible source you did cite DOESN'T ITSELF support the claim of "Laced Marijuana" with any citations to credible sources should cause you to reconsider your own beliefs. And how would one cite personal experiences, life experiences, talking to professionals in the field, recovered junkies themselves who make these claims etc? The links i provided are from people who are active pot smokers talking about pcp laced pot - what more do you want. Had i cited a medical site or other professional site you would have said made some other excuse as to why it wasn't credible. i never made a claim ALL pot is laced, just that it does happen and the effects are devestating. Believe what you will believe. When a dealer has crappy pot they cut it with all kinds of shit - even rat poisoning. Sorry if i believe what my own common sense tells me to believe and not some internet pot smoking supporters.

velvetears -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/19/2007 5:56:50 AM)
http://foamy.arthemys.net/Foamy/drugs.html Here's a credible source lol

mistoferin -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/19/2007 6:33:38 AM)
Velvetears, I am not going to say that nothing can ever end up in pot, but I will say this....I did substance abuse counseling full time for over 7 years, I also ran several different inner city groups dealing with addiction....and not once, in all of that time, did even one person (and I'm talking out of thousands) relate a tale of having PCP show up unexpectedly in their pot...or on a drug test. Also, having been a teen of the 70's, I have known, still know a LOT of people who indulge. But I have never known anyone personally who has ever gotten a "laced" bag of weed. Not saying it's not possible....but I am saying it is not likely. Even in the link you provided it said that reports of "laced" marijuana are rare and that any additives are usually what the user themself put in.

Mercnbeth -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/19/2007 6:45:22 AM)
quote: When a dealer has crappy pot they cut it with all kinds of shit - even rat poisoning. Statements like these are why the youth of America gives no credibility to the Government propaganda regarding drugs. When their reality contradicts on the minor issues they extrapolate the lies to all issues - rightfully so. A good reason people experiment with stronger drugs are the lies told about marijuana. When the result of use is not anything like the dire warning it makes the same expectation of misinformation whether the subject is cocaine or heroin. Once an "authority" loses credibility and integrity NOTHING coming from the same source is considered reliable. The rehabilitation centers that use such tactics are contributing to a self fulfilling prophecy. A great tactic to insure continuation of their industry and their profits. The same hypocrisy exists in most homes where a daily pill is pushed on the UM to control their behavior and mood swings, the adult uses a different pill to "deal" with anxiety, attention span, and/or depression, the weekends include a alcoholic beverage or two, but smoking a joint is grounds for being sent into prison/rehab. You know what's amazing about the issue? You can die and/or cause yourself serious harm WITHOUT any additive or extras for the "legal" drugs. It requires generating paranoia about potential unknown "additives" to demonize marijuana. Again - that type of argument, combined with a purported empathy for those using marijuana as an alternative effective medicine, would support legalization. Instead it bears witness to the hypocrisy of the entire system, those working in it, and those supporting it. The drug companies and the alcoholic beverage industries appreciate the efforts on their behalf to maintain their monopoly. Orwell's "Ministry of Truth" couldn't be more effective.

seeksfemslave -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/19/2007 7:52:04 AM)
quote: velvettears Go back and read for the answer to that i won't repeat myself. i don't know you or your life circumstances but i hope the problem never touches your life in any form - even if it's getting your throat slit so someone can rob you of 10 bucks to score some crack . This is you weakest argument, I expect others have pointed out thta it is the criminilisation of drug taking that results in such things. Can you not see that ? Also you point out "weak" people abuse drugs and ultimately doharm to themselves. As an argument from principle this is also weak since for example it also applies to food. Would you criminilise eating ? Criminilisation of drug taking rests on a feeble thoughtless morality IMO

philosophy -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/19/2007 8:16:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears i never made a claim ALL pot is laced, just that it does happen and the effects are devestating. ...ok, let's assume (and it's a rather big assumption) that you are correct. There's an obvious solution.....legalise it and have pot susceptible to the same standards as medical drugs. In my opinion most 'street' drug related problems are part and parcel of their being criminilised. Legalise and regulate and tax......it wont solve every drug related problem but it will reduce them to the same level as alcohol related problems today. A second point, straight from US history. Prohibition of alcohol only served to put money in the hands of organised crime. What do you think that prohibition of drugs does?

SimplyMichael -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/19/2007 12:32:41 PM)
I have yet to hear the economic reason for putting PCP into pot and like Republicans, drug dealers are all about the money. Because to me, buying an expensive drug to "add" to a relatively cheap drug makes zero sense to me. It would be like Denny's "lacing" their omeolets with caviar

velvetears -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/19/2007 2:15:22 PM)
Well it happened to my daughter - she ended up hospitalized. We have a very good, open relationship and she swore to me she had no idea anything else was in the pot she smoked. i believe her. She's been in a rehab and before admission they have tested her urine and blood and they have found pcp and opiates. She's been absolutely honest with me about what she does, has admitted to coke, crack, extacy, DXM, there would be no point in her lying, she was baffled herself. The psychiatrist and counselors said it was very common for kids to smoke laced pot. i was in the ER once and while i was waiting for a client the nurse told me there were 2 kids probably going to die, both had traces of pcp. i am not hearing this from one source. Maybe this is a recent thing, i have no clue.i want answers myself. i know my brothers smoked it in the 70's and they also reported getting how they termed "some bad shit". Vague memories i'd rather foget of awful rages, my one brother attacked a guy with a hammer cracked his skull, he ended up in a coma and almost died, and my brother said he smoked pot with pcp, which he claims he didn't know was in the pot. i know you're going to say he was lying. They were actually calmer and less violent when they switched to heroin. i work now with recovered addicts and they have their own stories. i don't get them fresh - i get the ones who have spent a lifetime doing drugs and are burned out, many have mental illnesses and many have been in prison for committing crimes either to get money for drugs or crimes they committed while on drugs. They talk as well about getting laced pot, as well as their other drug exploits. These people have nothing to hide, they aren't in denial, they are beyond the con games most addicts play, they aren't looking to use again, many are happy to have a warm bed and three meals a day. Erin i don't doubt your experiences with what you have been told, perhaps the difference is geographics. Michael i have no answer for the economics of it - i am not a street dealer. If pcp is so expensive i have no idea why they add it to the pot - they add other stuff too. Maybe to get kids hooked, i would assume thats why they add opiates. Merc i agree, kids learn by example and i don't keep alcohol in my house, i rarely have a drink when i am out as well. With my genetics i feel it is better for me never to make it even a possibility, i will be frank, it frightens me. seeksfemslave, i gave that example to say durgs aren't an us/them problem. You think it's so far fetched a drug addict can cross your path and rob you? Prisons are full of criminals who have addiction problems. philosophy thats a whole other bag of worms - legalization of it. Methadon is legalized drugs, and i am not so sure that's a good thing. i know - at least in my lifetime - drugs are here to stay. It's touched my life, my whole life, and i wouldn't wish that on anyone, not even my worste enemy. i will say this - there are kids out there that may be able to experiment with all forms of drugs and come out unscathed - a passing phase of their lives. Others, who have addictive personalities and bad genetics will quickly become addicts - how will it being legal or illegal change that? Just accept the choice of some to become addicts if they want and supply them with it - just sounds wrong to me.

philosophy -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/19/2007 2:27:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears i will say this - there are kids out there that may be able to experiment with all forms of drugs and come out unscathed - a passing phase of their lives. Others, who have addictive personalities and bad genetics will quickly become addicts - how will it being legal or illegal change that? Just accept the choice of some to become addicts if they want and supply them with it - just sounds wrong to me. ....all of what you type is true of alcohol as well. Is prohibition a good way of managing that drug as well? Or does history teach us something different?

Owner59 -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/19/2007 2:41:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: When a dealer has crappy pot they cut it with all kinds of shit - even rat poisoning. Statements like these are why the youth of America gives no credibility to the Government propaganda regarding drugs. When their reality contradicts on the minor issues they extrapolate the lies to all issues - rightfully so. A good reason people experiment with stronger drugs are the lies told about marijuana. When the result of use is not anything like the dire warning it makes the same expectation of misinformation whether the subject is cocaine or heroin. Once an "authority" loses credibility and integrity NOTHING coming from the same source is considered reliable. The rehabilitation centers that use such tactics are contributing to a self fulfilling prophecy. A great tactic to insure continuation of their industry and their profits. The same hypocrisy exists in most homes where a daily pill is pushed on the UM to control their behavior and mood swings, the adult uses a different pill to "deal" with anxiety, attention span, and/or depression, the weekends include a alcoholic beverage or two, but smoking a joint is grounds for being sent into prison/rehab. You know what's amazing about the issue? You can die and/or cause yourself serious harm WITHOUT any additive or extras for the "legal" drugs. It requires generating paranoia about potential unknown "additives" to demonize marijuana. Again - that type of argument, combined with a purported empathy for those using marijuana as an alternative effective medicine, would support legalization. Instead it bears witness to the hypocrisy of the entire system, those working in it, and those supporting it. The drug companies and the alcoholic beverage industries appreciate the efforts on their behalf to maintain their monopoly. Orwell's "Ministry of Truth" couldn't be more effective. Good point Merc. Lying,even with the best intentions can be disastrous. I once saw a heroin addict relate a story(like 20 years ago), about how the BS and propaganda around drugs,lead to his use of heroin. He talked about how he and his friends lost all confidence and respect for adults/government types,when they realized that they had been lied to about pot. The Reefer Madness types had made up all kinds of horrible stories about how bad pot was. Of course, they found out 1st hand,that pot wasn`t a big deal,or drove people to want harder drugs,etc. The addict went on to say ,that he and his friends started to question the other/all info about drugs,that they were getting.They were thinking that the other stories were bull shit too.So they went ahead,and got into real trouble,with really dangerous drugs ,like heroin. We can tell the truth about drugs,and we should. If we go at this trying to be cute w/ the truth,there will be real victims,like the addict a saw interviewed. As far as drug problems go,isn`t crystal meth, the big problem right now?

OrionTheWolf -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/19/2007 3:14:33 PM)
You were lied to or you are lying. It is that simple, and I wonder why anyone is even discussing this laced weed story. I know it, they know it, you know it, but you will not admit to it for reasons unknown, and I will not speculate about. Orion

EvilGenie -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/19/2007 4:29:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: Sunao I have my own political view and such as everyone else on this site does. I've been curious though as to why marijuana is considered a deadly drug? Cigs and Alcohol are legal and from my personal experience it seems to me that both are more dangerous. What type of crazy world do I live in when dangerous things are kept legal and semi dangerous things are made illegal. I support the illegalization of all other drugs. I believe that America should be a completely sober country or let the ones that don't cause harsh health affects in the short term contrary to long term ex. lung cancer for cigs and liver failure for alcohol. You can't even OD on marijuana but I had to call the paramedics for my friend that drank to much booze. Imagine how much room would be in jails everywhere. Well, I like a few beers down the pub, but rarely (if ever) get drunk. I think beer is one of the pleasures in life (a good ale that is, rather than that lager stuff they do in places like Belguim and France). Control is the issue. If someone needs the paramedics to pump his stomach, then he has a control issue, and I'm not interested in having my pleasures taken away on the basis of someone else's lack of control. Well, I lived in the UK for 5 years, until 2005 and Lidl sure does sell a lot of that lager stuff from France. I also never saw so many drunk people and drunkards in all of my life as when I lived there. Kids drinking alcopops on the street, drinking on the street period which is illegal in many countries, gangs of drunk girls too heavy to be in the strappy tops they had on, men etc...Every pub I went in to was 50-80% blasted pissed! Talk everywhere was what are you bringing to drink........the answer was most usually voddy to make an evil drink with red bull and all of them who I new that did this drank their entire bottle in an evening. Most of the male members of my family died from alcohol. It is rivered with drunks and you can trace the generational pattern. It sickens me. I'd rather they had smoked pot, then maybe they wouldn't have been such assholes. Be Well, EG

velvetears -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/19/2007 6:25:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf You were lied to or you are lying. It is that simple, and I wonder why anyone is even discussing this laced weed story. I know it, they know it, you know it, but you will not admit to it for reasons unknown, and I will not speculate about. Orion i am not a liar and if i am being lied to there are many in on this fake laced weed conspiracy because many doctors, psychiatrists, rehab counserlors, ex junkies etc all say the same thing. i personally don't care what you choose to speculate on for that matter... why even come and post here... to call me a liar. That is disrespectful, but than again what should i expect from a mysogynist gorean.

Petronius -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/19/2007 6:32:58 PM)
It seems in Republican-thought San Francisco has been heading to being a joke for decades and somehow never quite getting there. But their hype conceals an important issue: the large number of influential conservatives who want drugs legalized. But it's interesting and even fun. You have one group of conservatives, oriented to rightwing political correctness, who maintain people like Milton Friedman are the "liberal, socialist, pot-smoking hippie" crowd. Then you've got another group of conservatives, oriented to libertarianism, who maintain the first group of anti-drug conservatives are "socialists." What's interesting is the core dishonesty on both sides. The conservatives who pump Friedman to the skies for things like braintrusting Pinochet's dictatorship in Chile don't mention him as the mind-warped pot-smoking hippie. And if you read Friedman's attack on the drug wars, you'd think he was writing about Wavy Gravy and not his fellow Republicans. PS: All told and everything aside, I line up with Friedman on drugs, rants about "socialists" notwithstanding.

velvetears -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/19/2007 6:39:42 PM)
http://forum.grasscity.com/recreational-marijuana-use/2961-anyone-smoked-laced-weed-accident.html From my first google hit..... people are talking about it out there so it must exist to some extent.

farglebargle -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/19/2007 7:00:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears http://forum.grasscity.com/recreational-marijuana-use/2961-anyone-smoked-laced-weed-accident.html From my first google hit..... people are talking about it out there so it must exist to some extent. WE'RE talking about it. All that means is that the meme isn't dying out. You know what would be useful to your position? A laboratory analysis of PCP laced Marijuana, perhaps admitted as evidence in the defense of a criminal suspect. That would be, you know, factual evidence. Here's something to consider. TEA LEAVES.... http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/pcp/pcp_info7.shtml And ... http://www.hippy.com/article-84.html quote: Your paranoia probably stems from the deep lying guilt you have at breaking the law. This paranoia is completely irrational. I have heard many reports of PCP laced marijuana, but I doubt this is a frequent occurence. I've never encountered any. Few people would bother to lace a joint with PCP. PCP is usually snorted like cocaine. How many people put cocaine in a joint??? It's a waste. The only thing usually mixed in a joint is tobacco and that usually happens in Europe.

EvilGenie -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/19/2007 7:13:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf You were lied to or you are lying. It is that simple, and I wonder why anyone is even discussing this laced weed story. I know it, they know it, you know it, but you will not admit to it for reasons unknown, and I will not speculate about. Orion i am not a liar and if i am being lied to there are many in on this fake laced weed conspiracy because many doctors, psychiatrists, rehab counserlors, ex junkies etc all say the same thing. i personally don't care what you choose to speculate on for that matter... why even come and post here... to call me a liar. That is disrespectful, but than again what should i expect from a mysogynist gorean. When I was in my early teens weed was laced, at least here, and I watched them doing it. Some joints looked like parmesan cheese, meaning white, laced with some green stuff and I smoked it. My cousin did so when with her I did. Then I took my first steps into medicine at 21, 1984, becoming an ER nurse. We did have people come in utterly out of their heads with friends yelling it was only pot. These people did test positive in both urine and blood for PCP. It was very common and many vet's offices were being broken into. As far as I can tell, it stopped in the 80's and I went back to school to move up in medicine so to speak. I had a 20 year hiatus from smoking it until I found I had severe nerve damage to my hands and feet. There is no treatment and weed helped the pain. The weed I got then, 10 years ago, was pure weed. I also used it for the pain control when living in the UK when I could get weed as they smoke resin and it was also just weed. I don't smoke now only because I have no source and am not about to go hanging on the street asking anyone for it! When I lived in Morocco until recently I occasionally used hash (no it is not legal there any longer either) and it also worked for pain. Now I am moving to Spain and have no clue if I will get or use any. Be Well, EG

philosophy -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/19/2007 7:20:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears http://forum.grasscity.com/recreational-marijuana-use/2961-anyone-smoked-laced-weed-accident.html From my first google hit..... people are talking about it out there so it must exist to some extent. ....right......and google will also pick up aliens at roswell and a 9/11 coverup.....so they must be true too, eh? ....and you haven;t really answered my point about how effective prohibition was either.......

velvetears -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/19/2007 8:25:11 PM)
Thanks Evil Genie at least one person with an experience to tell. Just hope no one calls you a liar like they do me. i appreciate you relating your experience. Well farglebargle i could give you that but i don't have much interest in sharing my daughters personal lab reports with CM members i don't even know. philosophy whatever i might cite will be discredited. The link was a message board just like this one only for people interested in smoking pot and relating their experiences just like we do. Prohibition obviously wasn't effective - and your point is? Coke was also legal once... and????

OrionTheWolf -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/19/2007 8:54:26 PM)
The sources you sited state "rare" and that if laced, is the user doing the lacing. My statement stands, even with your insults. BTW Mysoginy is the hatred of Women, and I tend to really like females. Typical though, when called out on something, most people will use personal insult. I know alot more about the things you are talking about, than you will ever read about. Orion quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf You were lied to or you are lying. It is that simple, and I wonder why anyone is even discussing this laced weed story. I know it, they know it, you know it, but you will not admit to it for reasons unknown, and I will not speculate about. Orion i am not a liar and if i am being lied to there are many in on this fake laced weed conspiracy because many doctors, psychiatrists, rehab counserlors, ex junkies etc all say the same thing. i personally don't care what you choose to speculate on for that matter... why even come and post here... to call me a liar. That is disrespectful, but than again what should i expect from a mysogynist gorean.

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