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RE: Al Gore: Do you think he deserves the Nobel prize? - 10/15/2007 6:36:43 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I think Al Gore deserves a date with Hillary Clinton.
When she walks her ass looks like two kids fighting under a blanket.


I like Hillary`s butt.Man ,she is drag`n a wagon.I like a little juck in the trunk,and have always liked her fanny.

Be warned people,you can say anything you want about Hillary,just don`t say nut`n bout dat ass....

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Al Gore: Do you think he deserves the Nobel prize? - 10/15/2007 6:56:45 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

So where is Al Gores Peace Prize or Nomination for inventing the Internet?


If Vint and Bob consider Al to be the politician most responsible, who are you to disagree?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to FangsNfeet)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Al Gore: Do you think he deserves the Nobel prize? - 10/15/2007 7:11:47 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne



Yep and I have little respect for "history deniers" and those whose research only goes as deep as revisionist history taught in high school, those who call names, those who obfuscate, use hyperbole in place of a real argument, and or create strawman man arguments or argue points I never made.  Neither do I have respect for those who have narrowly focused "tunnel vision" informational sources, especially from the 4 major conglomerates in the us.  

I have little respect or patience for those who tack extra zeros on the number of jews killed in the holocaust without ever reviewing the records, nor do i have to much respect for people who accuse me of shit I never said, like claiming i said bill clinton killed 17 people.

Beside you do not have to be a rocket scientist and every one knows that just because 17 people "just happened" to die that were "DIRECTLY INVOLVED" with the clintons in the "WHITEWATER debacle" was nothing more than random pure unconnected "COINCIDENCE".  That happens all the time to everyone.  all the time!   Every day!  

Another thing I have little respect for is naivity and or ignorant or egotistical denial of either history, historical events, or the painfully obvious.

Then there are the ones who cannot think for themselves and if a website doesnt give them all the answers they are lost in la la land, and if someone really wants to drive my respect for them to max negative, just be a hypocrite, call me a conspiracist while supporting the governments "conspiracy" theory.  911 for instance.  The governments "conspiracy theory" is some how not a conspiracy in their mind.  They call these people media programmed double thinkers, or no thinkers which ever applies.  There is a benefit to that tho and being conspiracy denier they can live in happy land while the world crumbles around them because nothing will ever get investigated just passed off as coincidence.  (but at least they can stay in happy happy land)

Oh and there are the ones who cant understand what they read. Like "pull it" where I actually had to go to the extremes to get a english teacher and linguist with a masters to pull it apart and give the linguistic proofs of how senseless it was to read it as anything but demolish a building, Especially after slandered and called a liar of all things.

I suppose I shouldnt forget to mention the people who cry about a kkk website being put up as an example to make a specific point where instead of arguing against the point they use the source which has nothing to do with the point to distract or demean another to erroneously discount the point when the very same information is on 2 million other totally unrelated sites.   Not to mention those who cannot tell the difference between a bigot and someone who is merely critisizing.  

Speaking of hypocrites there is nothing more funny than those who ridicule christians and other religions but damned if anyone dare talk about a jew.

Some people never cease to amaze me and intelligent conversations with educated people are truly quite rare.  


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Prediction:
The next few weeks are going to be filled with haters,who are just jealous of a good man.


Remember,these haters believe that Gore claimed to have "invented the Internet".With stupidity like that,you can expect all kinds of funny,silly,mean,vile,pathetic,player hate`n stuff,to come at Gore.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I must be a psychic .I predicted that the GOP victims, and the easily duped ,would mention this.lol



Senator Al Speaks About The Internet

Used to be president Al speaks about the primary uses of the internet.


Yeh thats psychic alright....





shhh....

Hmm ...I just heard a breeze or something.What was that?....

hmmm.

Must have  been nothing.....




YOu mean you dont know?

That was Al polluting the world by passing methane gas to his psychics!

Ok now exhale and breathe deeply!




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Al Gore: Do you think he deserves the Nobel prize? - 10/15/2007 7:27:30 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne



Yep and I have little respect for "history deniers" and those whose research only goes as deep as revisionist history taught in high school, those who call names, those who obfuscate, use hyperbole in place of a real argument, and or create strawman man arguments or argue points I never made.  Neither do I have respect for those who have narrowly focused "tunnel vision" informational sources, especially from the 4 major conglomerates in the us.  

I have little respect or patience for those who tack extra zeros on the number of jews killed in the holocaust without ever reviewing the records, nor do i have to much respect for people who accuse me of shit I never said, like claiming i said bill clinton killed 17 people.

Beside you do not have to be a rocket scientist and every one knows that just because 17 people "just happened" to die that were "DIRECTLY INVOLVED" with the clintons in the "WHITEWATER debacle" was nothing more than random pure unconnected "COINCIDENCE".  That happens all the time to everyone.  all the time!   Every day!  

Another thing I have little respect for is naivity and or ignorant or egotistical denial of either history, historical events, or the painfully obvious.

Then there are the ones who cannot think for themselves and if a website doesnt give them all the answers they are lost in la la land, and if someone really wants to drive my respect for them to max negative, just be a hypocrite, call me a conspiracist while supporting the governments "conspiracy" theory.  911 for instance.  The governments "conspiracy theory" is some how not a conspiracy in their mind.  They call these people media programmed double thinkers, or no thinkers which ever applies.  There is a benefit to that tho and being conspiracy denier they can live in happy land while the world crumbles around them because nothing will ever get investigated just passed off as coincidence.  (but at least they can stay in happy happy land)

Oh and there are the ones who cant understand what they read. Like "pull it" where I actually had to go to the extremes to get a english teacher and linguist with a masters to pull it apart and give the linguistic proofs of how senseless it was to read it as anything but demolish a building, Especially after slandered and called a liar of all things.

I suppose I shouldnt forget to mention the people who cry about a kkk website being put up as an example to make a specific point where instead of arguing against the point they use the source which has nothing to do with the point to distract or demean another to erroneously discount the point when the very same information is on 2 million other totally unrelated sites.   Not to mention those who cannot tell the difference between a bigot and someone who is merely critisizing.  

Speaking of hypocrites there is nothing more funny than those who ridicule christians and other religions but damned if anyone dare talk about a jew.

Some people never cease to amaze me and intelligent conversations with educated people are truly quite rare.  


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Prediction:
The next few weeks are going to be filled with haters,who are just jealous of a good man.


Remember,these haters believe that Gore claimed to have "invented the Internet".With stupidity like that,you can expect all kinds of funny,silly,mean,vile,pathetic,player hate`n stuff,to come at Gore.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I must be a psychic .I predicted that the GOP victims, and the easily duped ,would mention this.lol



Senator Al Speaks About The Internet

Used to be president Al speaks about the primary uses of the internet.


Yeh thats psychic alright....





shhh....

Hmm ...I just heard a breeze or something.What was that?....

hmmm.

Must have  been nothing.....




YOu mean you dont know?

That was Al polluting the world by passing methane gas to his psychics!

Ok now exhale and breathe deeply!





you should go back to posting links to KKK websites,and 9/11 conspiracy sites.


What,...david duke`s website is down?

awwww ,wait a while and it`ll be back up later.

(for anyone not sure what`s going on here.realone often posts links and text,from the most hateful and fucked up websites on the Net.White supremacist websites,KKK and david duke website,etc.And when challenged,realone says silly,disgusting things like,"well,it was on the web,..duh...I was only posting something that was on the web"duh,"I didn`t write it myself,just posting",and so on.Very childish and real wrong.

Lol,then later on,he converses like any normal person on a message board would,like nothing`s wrong.lol)

IMO,someone who indulges in that sort of "fun",has lost the right to be taken seriously.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 10/15/2007 7:45:54 AM >

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Al Gore: Do you think he deserves the Nobel prize? - 10/15/2007 7:38:26 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline


Oh tisky tisky.   you were just pissed off becuase i put up the backward quotes directly from the talmud didnt praise jews from on high!

Hey I am sorry if it bothers you that your boy Al made an asshole of himself ok.   Just dont expect me to breathe his methane.  I prefer carbon.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Al Gore: Do you think he deserves the Nobel prize? - 10/15/2007 7:40:33 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne



Oh tisky tisky.   you were just pissed off becuase i put up the backward quotes directly from the talmud didnt praise jews from on high!

Hey I am sorry if it bothers you that your boy Al made an asshole of himself ok.   Just dont expect me to breathe his methane.  I prefer carbon.



Ha,ha!
<laughs,caughs,and chuckles some more....>

I`m hearing that whispy breeze again.Must be nothing.Yup,nothing.


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 10/15/2007 7:42:17 AM >

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Al Gore: Do you think he deserves the Nobel prize? - 10/15/2007 7:48:39 AM   
Pulpsmack


Posts: 394
Joined: 4/15/2004
From: Louisiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
I don`t know.Does anyone calling Tipper,(or anyone, for that matter)a "neo-nazi",deserve a respectful,intelligent response?
Nope.Not in my mind.

For me,and most folks(IMO),going there is worse than childish or immature.
I think my comments matched your level of discourse,just fine.

You`re an adult,and you`re using terms like that?And then you pee your panties when you get the response,that  a nazi reference deserves?

I`m up for an intelligent conversation ,with anyone.If someone is respectful, doesn`t use stupid nazi references(or posts KKK website links,like realone),and wants exchange ideas,then I`ll engage,happily.

But, if you`re  bringing up past and present ,"lunatic fringe talking points",you`re going to get called on it,and treated with the respect it deserves.

As far as I`m concerned,your nazi comment deserves no more respect,than a peace of dog poop stuck to my boot.


If that was in fact the case, you would have either taken the high road seeing how "unworthy" it is of respectful/thoughtful response, or you would have attacked the veracity of my statement itself as "ridiculous" as it was. You did neither. Instead, you raised Bush as a "worse-than" smokescreen to deflect the criticism of Gore. Your "Well, Bush is this" post does not match up with your defense of why you did that at all as far as showing contempt for what was posted. Thus, it is clear you were called out on your deflecting criticism of Gore, and this "not worth a respectful response" is the best backpeddaling you can come up with. It's not fooling anyone either. It is clear you took the comment seriously and tried to lash out with an offensive defense, and learning how it is a very weak sort of argument you have offered this "contempt defense" (as if you really meant to bash Bush as some subtle protest) to avoid looking foolish.


Two simple rules to avoid looking foolish when responding to a thread:

Rule #1 think before hammering out rebuttals/attacks... don't react.

Rule #2 failing to observe Rule #1, make darn sure your backpedaling/excuse/defense contains the thought you failed to put into Rule #1

< Message edited by Pulpsmack -- 10/15/2007 7:49:39 AM >

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Al Gore: Do you think he deserves the Nobel prize? - 10/15/2007 7:51:27 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pulpsmack

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
I don`t know.Does anyone calling Tipper,(or anyone, for that matter)a "neo-nazi",deserve a respectful,intelligent response?
Nope.Not in my mind.

For me,and most folks(IMO),going there is worse than childish or immature.
I think my comments matched your level of discourse,just fine.

You`re an adult,and you`re using terms like that?And then you pee your panties when you get the response,that  a nazi reference deserves?

I`m up for an intelligent conversation ,with anyone.If someone is respectful, doesn`t use stupid nazi references(or posts KKK website links,like realone),and wants exchange ideas,then I`ll engage,happily.

But, if you`re  bringing up past and present ,"lunatic fringe talking points",you`re going to get called on it,and treated with the respect it deserves.

As far as I`m concerned,your nazi comment deserves no more respect,than a peace of dog poop stuck to my boot.


If that was in fact the case, you would have either taken the high road seeing how "unworthy" it is of respectful/thoughtful response, or you would have attacked the veracity of my statement itself as "ridiculous" as it was. You did neither. Instead, you raised Bush as a "worse-than" smokescreen to deflect the criticism of Gore. Your "Well, Bush is this" post does not match up with your defense of why you did that at all as far as showing contempt for what was posted. Thus, it is clear you were called out on your deflecting criticism of Gore, and this "not worth a respectful response" is the best backpeddaling you can come up with. It's not fooling anyone either. It is clear you took the comment seriously and tried to lash out with an offensive defense, and learning how it is a very weak sort of argument you have offered this "contempt defense" (as if you really meant to bash Bush as some subtle protest) to avoid looking foolish.


Two simple rules to avoid looking foolish when responding to a thread:

Rule #1 think before hammering out rebuttals/attacks... don't react.

Rule #2 failing to observe Rule #1, make darn sure your backpedaling/excuse/defense contains the thought you failed to put into Rule #1
 

Yawwwn,..

Where`s my tea....

<takes a sip,thinks about "poop-on-a-boot">

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 10/15/2007 7:52:55 AM >

(in reply to Pulpsmack)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Al Gore: Do you think he deserves the Nobel prize? - 10/15/2007 8:10:37 AM   
Zarine


Posts: 32
Joined: 9/9/2007
Status: offline
He doesn't deserve anything when he's a hipocrit!  I don't necessarily agree with the junk science that says that humans are causing global warming, but if Al Gore had actually cut down his energy use and acted as a model for the rest of us I'd say he deserves it, but when he uses more energy than the average American I think he needs a kick in the ass.  So much for integrety in the Nobel prize organization.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Al Gore: Do you think he deserves the Nobel prize? - 10/15/2007 10:34:13 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zarine
So much for integrety in the Nobel prize organization.



Put your phony indignation aside. They gave one to the Neocon Party Whore Sweetheart, Henry Kissinger for BOMBING THE CAMBODIANS.

Hey, think of it as the closest the International Community can get for indicting Bush for his War Crimes, and just try to enjoy the show.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 10/15/2007 10:35:15 AM >


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Zarine)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Al Gore: Do you think he deserves the Nobel prize? - 10/15/2007 10:43:24 AM   
SuzanneKneeling


Posts: 233
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline
"my google must be broken man because i cannot find anything that supports that global warming is man made."

Nothing personal but your broken google is the least of your problems. Apparently your public library has burned down, your English teachers in elementary through secondary school were frauds, and your ability to absorb general knowledge that has been out there for years now is nonexistent.

Here's a link that sums up the consensus statements of every national and international scientific organization whose work pertains to climate study. If you ever meet a real scientist in that shack you apparently live in in the remote wilderness, ask him or her the significance of the organizations listed here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change

National and international science academies and professional societies have assessed the current scientific opinion on climate change, in particular recent global warming. These assessments have largely followed or endorsed the IPCC position that "An increasing body of observations gives a collective picture of a warming world and other changes in the climate system... There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities".

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Al Gore: Do you think he deserves the Nobel prize? - 10/15/2007 10:47:43 AM   
SuzanneKneeling


Posts: 233
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Hey I am sorry if it bothers you that your boy Al made an asshole of himself ok. Just dont expect me to breathe his methane. I prefer carbon.


Rolling my eyes here. Methane being composed of approximately 75% carbon by weight, you've publicly demonstrated your fine educational foundation for understanding this issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Al Gore: Do you think he deserves the Nobel prize? - 10/15/2007 12:44:11 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zarine

He doesn't deserve anything when he's a hipocrit!  I don't necessarily agree with the junk science that says that humans are causing global warming, but if Al Gore had actually cut down his energy use and acted as a model for the rest of us I'd say he deserves it, but when he uses more energy than the average American I think he needs a kick in the ass.  So much for integrety in the Nobel prize organization.


Yeah ,those nasty Nobel people,give`n prizes and stuff.

Just who the fuck  do they think they are?!

What?! They didn`t even check his house size,or nothing?!?

Or(lol),why didn`t they  read all the bull-shit that`s on-line ,and explain it all  to the un-informed?!?!!Those fuckers,......

Lol

This is turning from the ridiculous, to the sublime.

For all of my adult life,the Nobel prize was respected and honored.

Now,lol,because Al Gore has won it,the Nobel Committee and and the Nobel Peace Prize is something less than honorable?lol

Ya gotta be fuck`n kid`n?

This also happened,btw, with Rhodes Scholars.As soon as it got around that Bill Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar,Rush,Coulter,(ya know,the nuts)etc,started saying that the Scholarship was nothing and no big deal,etc.
All of a sudden,because of neo-con`s strange and ugly rantings,lol,people were thinking that the Rhodes Scholarship a preppy,liberal,elitists outfit.Not worthy of respect.

The neo-cons will trash anything and anybody.And will happily welcome those that repeat their sad,weak talking points.




< Message edited by Owner59 -- 10/15/2007 12:50:24 PM >

(in reply to Zarine)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Al Gore: Do you think he deserves the Nobel prize? - 10/15/2007 1:57:51 PM   
MsSophie


Posts: 142
Joined: 3/26/2006
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline
According to the will of Alfred Nobel, the man who founded the prize, the Peace Prize should be given to a person who "has done much for the greater welfare of (for) humanity". Regardless of if you believe in Global Warming as a man made phenomena, or not you would have to agree that the fact that it is now so widely discussed is definitely a good thing.

Therefore I would say that I think Mr Gore deserves the prize. His, and his associates, efforts have contributed to bring this discussion into every man's (and woman's) home.


_____________________________

My site: http://www.euro-kink.com

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Al Gore: Do you think he deserves the Nobel prize? - 10/15/2007 2:00:11 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline
Well said, and I fully agree.

_____________________________


~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




(in reply to MsSophie)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Al Gore: Do you think he deserves the Nobel prize? - 10/15/2007 2:09:51 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzanneKneeling

"my google must be broken man because i cannot find anything that supports that global warming is man made."

Nothing personal but your broken google is the least of your problems. Apparently your public library has burned down, your English teachers in elementary through secondary school were frauds, and your ability to absorb general knowledge that has been out there for years now is nonexistent.

Here's a link that sums up the consensus statements of every national and international scientific organization whose work pertains to climate study. If you ever meet a real scientist in that shack you apparently live in in the remote wilderness, ask him or her the significance of the organizations listed here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change

National and international science academies and professional societies have assessed the current scientific opinion on climate change, in particular recent global warming. These assessments have largely followed or endorsed the IPCC position that "An increasing body of observations gives a collective picture of a warming world and other changes in the climate system... There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities".


My apologies for not being clear.

I do not waste my time reading someone elses concensus, (opinion), because I am fully qualified to read and review the data directly and derive my own consensus.

When I ask for data I really do mean raw data and consensus of course is not the same as data.





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to SuzanneKneeling)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Al Gore: Do you think he deserves the Nobel prize? - 10/15/2007 2:18:32 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzanneKneeling

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Hey I am sorry if it bothers you that your boy Al made an asshole of himself ok. Just dont expect me to breathe his methane. I prefer carbon.


Rolling my eyes here. Methane being composed of approximately 75% carbon by weight, you've publicly demonstrated your fine educational foundation for understanding this issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane



Suzanne;

errmmm I was referring to some elses post and talking about those certain people who get off on sniffing Al's farts.  ;)   Farts are mostly methane gas...

Apparently they get delusions of being psychic from snorting to much of it.

funny part is that its common knowledge:

Senator Al Claims Credit For The Internet

Used to be president Al speaks about the primary uses of the internet.









_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to SuzanneKneeling)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Al Gore: Do you think he deserves the Nobel prize? - 10/15/2007 2:25:40 PM   
tsherpet


Posts: 77
Joined: 9/19/2006
Status: offline
Al Gore deserves a Darwin award, not a nobel prise.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Al Gore: Do you think he deserves the Nobel prize? - 10/15/2007 2:31:53 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline
The Nobel Peace prize became a joke when it was given to Arrafat, of course Gore deserves one.

(in reply to tsherpet)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Al Gore: Do you think he deserves the Nobel prize? - 10/15/2007 2:32:20 PM   
peterK50


Posts: 433
Joined: 1/12/2006
Status: offline
Yes

_____________________________

Religion Is About Seeking Knowledge, Not Knowing All The Answers.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 60
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