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Anti-Gore court case funded by fuel and mining industries - 10/14/2007 10:47:10 PM   
SuzanneKneeling


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Big surprise here.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/14/world/main3365651.shtml
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RE: Anti-Gore court case funded by fuel and mining indu... - 10/14/2007 10:52:12 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzanneKneeling

Big surprise here.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/14/world/main3365651.shtml


I like that "the scientifically proven man made global warming."

ah huh!




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RE: Anti-Gore court case funded by fuel and mining indu... - 10/14/2007 10:55:20 PM   
SuzanneKneeling


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Um, you have a problem with the concensus of the national and international climatology communities? I didn't think you were in with the denial crowd here (maybe I've been misreading your posts).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change

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RE: Anti-Gore court case funded by fuel and mining indu... - 10/14/2007 11:12:01 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzanneKneeling

Um, you have a problem with the concensus of the national and international climatology communities? I didn't think you were in with the denial crowd here (maybe I've been misreading your posts).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change



Nope but unless something has changed between now and about 6 months ago when juliaoceania posted several links that i requested so i could review there was no evidence to show that it was manmade what so ever.

That and the reading s they take are within the variance so imo of no real value.

I have read several papers and abstracts on it in both camps and have not found anything to indicate that it is "man made".

I do not deny we have or at least had a warming trend, however i also noted on Als chart in his inconvenient doc that the temp peaked about 2 years ago and is now getting colder.  oops on Al.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Anti-Gore court case funded by fuel and mining indu... - 10/15/2007 12:04:42 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

I do not deny we have or at least had a warming trend, however i also noted on Als chart in his inconvenient doc that the temp peaked about 2 years ago and is now getting colder.  oops on Al.



You can't tell the trend of the climate over a two year period. Even my cat knows that.

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RE: Anti-Gore court case funded by fuel and mining indu... - 10/15/2007 12:24:50 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

I do not deny we have or at least had a warming trend, however i also noted on Als chart in his inconvenient doc that the temp peaked about 2 years ago and is now getting colder.  oops on Al.



You can't tell the trend of the climate over a two year period. Even my cat knows that.



of course I can but when someone wants me to pay money out of my pocket i want to see legitimate data and its not legitimate until they can show me how much is man made and how much is sun made. 

They have not even done any tests to that effect that i am aware of.

I expect that sun flares are doing 99.99% and humans are doing .001% in the final wash.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Anti-Gore court case funded by fuel and mining indu... - 10/15/2007 12:52:40 AM   
pahunkboy


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when i was a kid the planet was heading toward an ice age.  [im serious]

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RE: Anti-Gore court case funded by fuel and mining indu... - 10/15/2007 3:32:09 AM   
Crush


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It is all the butterflies....they are the ones causing, not global cooling nor global warming, but global change!

Yeah, global change....duh.   Since when were we ever promised a stable environment?

Check here for more on the "Butterfly Effect"   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect

Help preserve the global temperature...kill a butterfly today...... (/sarcasm)

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RE: Anti-Gore court case funded by fuel and mining indu... - 10/15/2007 5:56:56 AM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush

It is all the butterflies....they are the ones causing, not global cooling nor global warming, but global change!

Yeah, global change....duh.   Since when were we ever promised a stable environment?

Check here for more on the "Butterfly Effect"   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect

Help preserve the global temperature...kill a butterfly today...... (/sarcasm)



Thank you Suzanne,

When the "creative dominant" posted this:

Can someone...anyone...explain to me how a flawed documentary ( so flawed that when it is shown in classrooms in Great Britain, the flaws are gone through beforehand with the class along with a statement that a consensus of scientists is not proof of anything, that rather proof is in verifiable evidence and that there are indeed other scientists whose verifiable evidence disputes the consensus of the global-warming chicken littles) that decries the vile and wasteful nature of human beings while extolling the peaceful loveliness of an untouched environment ...until we humans came along of course...uplifts human beings specifically and humanity on the whole?
 
 I had a gut feeling something wasn`t quite right,when I heard words like "fatally flawed" used,lol.So "fatally flawed"in fact,that classrooms!,mind you, "~classrooms in England~",were mentioning a disclaimer before the film,that not all scientists agreed!Oh my god!Those poor,poor kids,lol.
 
Lol.If there was something with more depth or something more substantial or credible,the critics would have spouted that off.But all they`ve got so far,is a stupid story,dug out of google link,about one fucking school in Europe,that read a disclaimer before the movie aired.Wow!Wow!That`s sooooo impressive and important to know.
 
Not surprised at all,that this was oil industry bull-shit,masquerading as real people with real concerns.
 
That`s the only way these "people w/ a hidden agenda" can operate.
 
The oil/energy industry also does fake-phony studies,like the tobacco industry did till recently.Fake-phony studies ,done by scientists (secretly)hired by oil/energy groups,masquerading as neutral and unbiased,that are then injected into the debate,only to poison the debate(in their favor),and to fool the easily fooled.
 
We`re seeing a lot a posts,by the easily fooled,on this subject.The victims who believe that  Gore claimed to have invented the Internet,or the poor souls who think that Gore weakened our military.bush inherited a fine military from Clinton,and then abused/broke it.

To all CM folks,
the people(payed for by industry) who make these fake studies,and open up front groups masquerading as a consumer advocate group,or the whore truck driver who sold himself in England,are a very savvy and sophisticated bunch.Using dirty tricks and exploiting the trust of good people to for their own ends.


Here`s a good question,Suzanne:
How many more times do you think a dolt will wander into these Gore threads mid-stream,and make  dumb comments like,"hey,when does Gore get a prize for "inventing the internet,huh-huh-huh"?
 
 
At least a few more times,no doubt.

 
In a way though,posts like the "~Gore internet inventor~",and this one here, are very entertaining and produce those wonderful brain chemicals one gets, from laughing out loud.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 10/15/2007 6:14:51 AM >


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RE: Anti-Gore court case funded by fuel and mining indu... - 10/15/2007 7:16:13 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
In a way though,posts like the "~Gore internet inventor~",and this one here, are very entertaining and produce those wonderful brain chemicals one gets, from laughing out loud.




Yes and blind political party affiliation I am beginning to think is fringe lunatic diseaese.


Senator Al Speaks About The Internet

Used to be president Al speaks about the primary uses of the internet.



quote:

We`re seeing a lot a posts,by the easily fooled,on this subject.The victims who believe that Gore claimed to have invented the Internet


Starting to sound a bit lunatic fringe there eh?  A worldwide conspiracy against Al aye?








< Message edited by Real0ne -- 10/15/2007 7:29:10 AM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: Anti-Gore court case funded by fuel and mining indu... - 10/15/2007 7:18:43 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

when i was a kid the planet was heading toward an ice age.  [im serious]



Yup I remember it well, but that was before we had the internet and people actually believed it.

I must have missed it because I dont remember one?




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: Anti-Gore court case funded by fuel and mining indu... - 10/15/2007 7:32:57 AM   
cyberdude611


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Im still holding to my belief that you do everything you want to try and stop global warming and it will do no good. There are factors involved where we have no control. The sun is going through that hot cycle where more and more heat and radiation is hitting us. This heat is strong enough to melt ice on Mars. It is only logical to assume that the sun is also melting some of our ice. And this cycle has not even hit the peak yet, the sun will continue to get hotter until 2012. And then while it cools back down the increased heat output continues to hit us. The Earth's temperature is going to go up several degrees by the time this cycle is over with.

And this is not an oil conspiracy. This is confirmed by NASA and astronomers all over the world. The sun right now is the hottest it has been in centuries.

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: Anti-Gore court case funded by fuel and mining indu... - 10/15/2007 7:37:57 AM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Im still holding to my belief that you do everything you want to try and stop global warming and it will do no good. There are factors involved where we have no control. The sun is going through that hot cycle where more and more heat and radiation is hitting us. This heat is strong enough to melt ice on Mars. It is only logical to assume that the sun is also melting some of our ice. And this cycle has not even hit the peak yet, the sun will continue to get hotter until 2012. And then while it cools back down the increased heat output continues to hit us. The Earth's temperature is going to go up several degrees by the time this cycle is over with.

And this is not an oil conspiracy. This is confirmed by NASA and astronomers all over the world. The sun right now is the hottest it has been in centuries.


Hey kid,how many "centuries" have astronomers and scientistd been measuring the Sun`s temp?

Got a link,or is that Rush`s latest offering of doo-doo?

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RE: Anti-Gore court case funded by fuel and mining indu... - 10/15/2007 7:56:55 AM   
farglebargle


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Fuck "The Suns Temperature"

What's the Temperature of The Earth? is the REAL QUESTION.



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RE: Anti-Gore court case funded by fuel and mining indu... - 10/15/2007 8:04:24 AM   
cyberdude611


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Im still holding to my belief that you do everything you want to try and stop global warming and it will do no good. There are factors involved where we have no control. The sun is going through that hot cycle where more and more heat and radiation is hitting us. This heat is strong enough to melt ice on Mars. It is only logical to assume that the sun is also melting some of our ice. And this cycle has not even hit the peak yet, the sun will continue to get hotter until 2012. And then while it cools back down the increased heat output continues to hit us. The Earth's temperature is going to go up several degrees by the time this cycle is over with.

And this is not an oil conspiracy. This is confirmed by NASA and astronomers all over the world. The sun right now is the hottest it has been in centuries.


Hey kid,how many "centuries" have astronomers and scientistd been measuring the Sun`s temp?

Got a link,or is that Rush`s latest offering of doo-doo?


It was on the Discovery Channel. They showed different types of pictures (I dont know if they were infrared or what) of the sun from back in the 70s and 80s and compared it to today and the surface of the sun is much more violent...very violent. And NASA says that the Sun is reaching a point called "solar maximum." And all the sun spots (which are the cooler parts of the sun's surface) are being reheated.

The last solar maximum occured in 1957. But scientists say this one we are in the middle of now is much more violent and will be 30 to 50% more powerful. After 2012, the sun will cool again and calm down. And just like we saw in the late 1960s and early 1970s....the earth's temperature will begin a decline.
Remember back in the 70s how scientists were in a panic because the earth was cooling?

That's the solar cycle. It's been going on for millions of years. And I dont know why but none of these global warming alarmists even consider it. They didn't consider it back in the 70s and they arn't considering it now. And I'm telling you right now, a lot of people are going to be laughed at in 2020 when the earth starts to cool down again.

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RE: Anti-Gore court case funded by fuel and mining indu... - 10/15/2007 8:15:04 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Hey kid,how many "centuries" have astronomers and scientistd been measuring the Sun`s temp?

Got a link,or is that Rush`s latest offering of doo-doo?



1893?

http://www.astronomynotes.com/starprop/s5.htm#A1.4.2

1879?

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Stefan-BoltzmannConstant.html


1610?
http://www.sciam.com/print_version.cfm?articleID=0001B1C3-D730-1C71-9EB7809EC588F2D7




Oh, let me guess... neo-con 'front groups', right?




< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 10/15/2007 8:56:49 AM >

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RE: Anti-Gore court case funded by fuel and mining indu... - 10/15/2007 9:35:27 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Hey kid,how many "centuries" have astronomers and scientistd been measuring the Sun`s temp?

Got a link,or is that Rush`s latest offering of doo-doo?



1893?

http://www.astronomynotes.com/starprop/s5.htm#A1.4.2

1879?

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Stefan-BoltzmannConstant.html


1610?
http://www.sciam.com/print_version.cfm?articleID=0001B1C3-D730-1C71-9EB7809EC588F2D7




Oh, let me guess... neo-con 'front groups', right?





People also forget or assume that the planets are perfectly stable and they are not.  They are always changing.   Science believes that all the oil on this planet was created when the sun heated the surface to over 1500 degrees for several years.

Funny part about it is that the sun alone did it without any help from man.  

However there is no money to be made in looking at the obvious.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Alumbrado)
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RE: Anti-Gore court case funded by fuel and mining indu... - 10/15/2007 11:16:39 AM   
SuzanneKneeling


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

That's the solar cycle. It's been going on for millions of years. And I dont know why but none of these global warming alarmists even consider it.


Cyberdude, cyberdude. From watching you post on this over the months, it seems evident that you honestly, sincerely believe what you are saying. I understand, I think (though I can't know for sure of course). You have an emotional need to believe that anthropogenic climate change as expressed by every major related national and international scientific body is not real. What proportion of that emotional need is borne out of a resistance to making a few surprisingly minor changes in your own life, a deep-seated resistance to anything you perceive as coming from the "left" (I'm liberal but is it our fault that whether it's evolution, stem cells or climate change we tend to listen to them more?), or just some pounding your brain has been taking from some ultra-conservative news source, I can only guess. But this consensus is real.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change

Global climate is a very complex concept, yes. There are many exogenous and endogenous factors at work. Solar cycles are but one well-understood, well-modelled and well-considered variable. Stop and take some deep breaths. Do you really, honestly believe that you are shouting about something that the climatology community -- a collection of thousands of PhD scientists in a variety of disciplines, who have to put their papers through a rigorous peer-review process in which rivals with big egos are just salivating to rip them apart if they leave something out of their analysis/discussion -- have all somehow grossly overlooked? How exactly does that work? How is this grand, concerted conspiracy carried out and maintained? Why isn't it at work in all the other scientific fields? And don't give me the "big money in research grants if they keep finding we are doing this" canard. There's big money in research funding in every field. No other field currently enjoys the distinction of having this Grand Conspiracy possible. The one exception is that this topic carries in the balance not $millions but $billions in profit differentials for a particular industry (and more modest amounts for a variety of other industries) depending on how it plays out on the public policy stage. This is why companies like Exxon have spent millions of dollars working on all fronts to seed doubt and confusion among the public.

Please, take a deep breath, a walk outside and then a look in the mirror. It's time to come down.

If you still want real (scientifically cited) answers to your specific questions, I suggest a site called realclimate.org. They have real climate scientists there, sober discussion threads, and a pretty nice search engine. As always, I also encourage people to go to the library and keep up on the literature (Science and Nature are usually available at most libraries). There's no conspiracy here. And no real debate left. Please. Try to get free.

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RE: Anti-Gore court case funded by fuel and mining indu... - 10/15/2007 11:22:33 AM   
SuzanneKneeling


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quote:

Science believes that all the oil on this planet was created when the sun heated the surface to over 1500 degrees for several years.


Actually it had more to do with the heat generated as organic matter was subjected to immense pressure for several billion years. Remember RealOne, this stuff is buried deep underground.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum

Most geologists view crude oil and natural gas as the product of compression and heating of ancient organic materials over geological time. Oil is formed from the preserved remains of prehistoric zooplankton and algae which have been settled to the sea (or lake) bottom in large quantities under anoxic conditions. Terrestrial plants, on the other hand, tend to form coal. Over geological time this organic matter, mixed with mud, is buried under heavy layers of sediment. The resulting high levels of heat and pressure cause the organic matter to chemically change during diagenesis, first into a waxy material known as kerogen which is found in various oil shales around the world, and then with more heat into liquid and gaseous hydrocarbons in a process known as catagenesis.

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RE: Anti-Gore court case funded by fuel and mining indu... - 10/15/2007 11:29:58 AM   
greyarcher315


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Actually, there is debate left. Global warming is not proven by any stretch, but the enviromental fanatics like to shout down anything that does not agree with them. There needs to be serious, unbiased research done. For all the people that claim it is the oil companies studies that are disputing global warming, keep in mind that a lot of the studies done supporting it are done by groups that don't like oil companies, and in fact rely on donations from people scared about an unproven theory.
  I'd like to know this, if there is no natural cycles(or they are only minumaly impacting the tempeture) how do you explain the ice age, both begining and end? that was not done by humans.

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