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RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/18/2007 1:38:07 PM

PapiNsweet

Posts: 36
Joined: 10/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

I have a question for those that say they are "no limits" slaves. If you were uncollared or free tomorrow and met a new Dominant, would you automatically agree to be "no limits" with them from the start. If not why not. Are you only saying now that you are a "no limits" slave because of the relationship you are in.

of course my having no limits applies only to the relationship with my Master. if i were not a slave, i would have limits and be proud to have them. for me and the way i was trained/taught in the lifestyle, giving up personal limits is just part of slavery. so if i were someone else's slave the situation would be the same...i'd impose no limits on my Master, because that would be beyond my rights as property. but the wonderful thing about this lifestyle is that one can CHOOSE what path they wish to follow and whom they wish to belong to. i gave myself to my Master, even though we hadn't known each other for years, even though i didn't really trust him, even though we didn't share the same ethics, even though many of the things he described that would be a part of life for any slave he owned frightened the tar outta me....because in my heart i just KNEW that he was the One i needed to mold and guide me, to help me realize my full potential, and to provide a path to fulfillment and eventually peace.

so while i knew it'd be a long, hard road ahead, i also knew that it would be more than worth it.

-prop

(in reply to susie)

Post #: 181

RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/18/2007 2:17:13 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PapiNsweet

i would hope that most would use their minds, heart and good sense.

-prop

I am

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to PapiNsweet)

Post #: 182

RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/18/2007 2:20:12 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PapiNsweet

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

I have a question for those that say they are "no limits" slaves. If you were uncollared or free tomorrow and met a new Dominant, would you automatically agree to be "no limits" with them from the start. If not why not. Are you only saying now that you are a "no limits" slave because of the relationship you are in.

of course my having no limits applies only to the relationship with my Master. if i were not a slave, i would have limits and be proud to have them. for me and the way i was trained/taught in the lifestyle, giving up personal limits is just part of slavery. so if i were someone else's slave the situation would be the same...i'd impose no limits on my Master, because that would be beyond my rights as property. but the wonderful thing about this lifestyle is that one can CHOOSE what path they wish to follow and whom they wish to belong to. i gave myself to my Master, even though we hadn't known each other for years, even though i didn't really trust him, even though we didn't share the same ethics, even though many of the things he described that would be a part of life for any slave he owned frightened the tar outta me....because in my heart i just KNEW that he was the One i needed to mold and guide me, to help me realize my full potential, and to provide a path to fulfillment and eventually peace.

so while i knew it'd be a long, hard road ahead, i also knew that it would be more than worth it.

-prop

I'll try and keep this sweet narration of him in mind the next time I read about the things he subjects you to that are in diametric opposition to this.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to PapiNsweet)

Post #: 183

RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/18/2007 2:42:24 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PapiNsweet

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy
Don't we all have the right to determine what is right for our own life and our own happiness and fulfillment? Why can't someone live this way? Why shouldn't they?

Yes. They can....and they should if that is what they so desire. Provided of course....and I will say it again and again regardless of those who want to continue to ignore it or treat it like it has absolutely no bearing....because it DOES....that the involved parties are CAPABLE of making that choice and consenting from a MENTALLY COMPETENT perspective that would make that consent valid. When someone is LEGALLY declared MENTALLY INCOMPETENT they can NOT give VALID consent.

yes, you've said this over and over again, and it amazes me that you make these statements with such conviction and such faith in the law, as if it is this all-knowing, all-mighty, perfect and just entity that is the ultimate word in judging what is good or bad, right or wrong. everyday our legal and mental health system flocks up countless lives, many times their judgements have proven to be unsound, illogical, biased, ignorant. if you personally wish to believe that myself and anyone else who has ever been legally declared mentally incompetent incapable of ever giving valid consent, that is your perogative to do so, but i would hope that most would use their minds, heart and good sense.

-prop

I agree that you being declared "Legally" Mentally Incompetent and that your Master is your Guardian doesn't actually equate to you being Mentally Incompetent.

However, since you seem to be rather insistent that your not actually Mentally Incompetent... then their would be only one logical fact that can be established...

Your Master is Unethical with little integrity! Since by your admission you are NOT mentally Incompetent. And since you follow the Will of your Master. It is clear you followed his instructions and participated in providing false evidence to allow the legal system to declare you as "Legally" Mentally Incompetent.

Of course.. the other possibility is that You have no Master.. and the only person of no Integrity is you.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to PapiNsweet)

Post #: 184

RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/18/2007 2:44:35 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: PapiNsweet

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy
Don't we all have the right to determine what is right for our own life and our own happiness and fulfillment? Why can't someone live this way? Why shouldn't they?

Yes. They can....and they should if that is what they so desire. Provided of course....and I will say it again and again regardless of those who want to continue to ignore it or treat it like it has absolutely no bearing....because it DOES....that the involved parties are CAPABLE of making that choice and consenting from a MENTALLY COMPETENT perspective that would make that consent valid. When someone is LEGALLY declared MENTALLY INCOMPETENT they can NOT give VALID consent.

yes, you've said this over and over again, and it amazes me that you make these statements with such conviction and such faith in the law, as if it is this all-knowing, all-mighty, perfect and just entity that is the ultimate word in judging what is good or bad, right or wrong. everyday our legal and mental health system flocks up countless lives, many times their judgements have proven to be unsound, illogical, biased, ignorant. if you personally wish to believe that myself and anyone else who has ever been legally declared mentally incompetent incapable of ever giving valid consent, that is your perogative to do so, but i would hope that most would use their minds, heart and good sense.

-prop

I agree that you being declared "Legally" Mentally Incompetent and that your Master is your Guardian doesn't actually equate to you being Mentally Incompetent.

However, since you seem to be rather insistent that your not actually Mentally Incompetent... then their would be only one logical fact that can be established...

Your Master is Unethical with little integrity! Since by your admission you are NOT mentally Incompetent. And since you follow the Will of your Master. It is clear you followed his instructions and participated in providing false evidence to allow the legal system to declare you as "Legally" Mentally Incompetent.

Of course.. the other possibility is that You have no Master.. and the only person of no Integrity is you.

I've got 200 on bored houewife making it all up.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 185

RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/18/2007 3:12:34 PM

lateralist1

Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline

Thankyou all for a very imformative debate.
I have one or two comments to make.
What has been descibed quite eloquently here as slave behaviour to a Master is almost identical to what a lot of vanilla women experience as marriage.
And of course it makes the woman feel worthless if she didn't sign up for it.
But when they percieve it as a choice between that and the streets then most women stay. Even the ones who have the ability to keep themselves sometimes find it very hard to face the world alone especially if they have children.
Some vanilla men are doing exactly what Doms do in the lifestyle but they don't bother to ask for consent or have a discussion about limits. Are they sane? Are they criminals? Do the police want to know? I live in a society where all women are seen by a lot of men as slaves. And until quite recently they had the law and cultural thinking on their side.
This kind of thinking is changing very very slowly but it will take major changes in the way men are brought up to change it completely.
The fact that I was jail bait did not stop men from treating me as a sex slave. In their mind being legally unable to make my own decisions did not concern them.
As a Domme I believe it is my duty to find out why someone is prepared to allow me to do the things I want to do to them. And if the answer is, as it was for me, because they want someone to love them. I get very very worried. Because unfortunately human being don't always love the people who allow them to do what they want to them. They might not, as has been pointed out, kill them, because it is not in their interests to do so. But that doesn't mean that they actually care.
And when death seems like a very nice idea then limits don't really come into it.
Been there, done that, got the Tshirt. Was I ill? Well the professionals didn't take the time or trouble to find out. And I wasn't just a number to them. I worked with them. They knew me personally.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 186

RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/18/2007 3:23:41 PM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I agree that you being declared "Legally" Mentally Incompetent and that your Master is your Guardian doesn't actually equate to you being Mentally Incompetent.

However, since you seem to be rather insistent that your not actually Mentally Incompetent... then their would be only one logical fact that can be established...

Your Master is Unethical with little integrity! Since by your admission you are NOT mentally Incompetent. And since you follow the Will of your Master. It is clear you followed his instructions and participated in providing false evidence to allow the legal system to declare you as "Legally" Mentally Incompetent.

Of course.. the other possibility is that You have no Master.. and the only person of no Integrity is you.

*sigh*...we are speaking about a legal decision that was made several years ago, not last week. i was going through a very rocky period, having great difficulty adjusting to a new situation with my Master (living together), and being slapped in the face with the reality of being a slave. before that time, i will admit to holding onto a few romanticized notions of the concept, because i had no previous experience with such a relationship, and while intellectually i understood that some things would be difficult, experiencing and enduring such things firsthand was a whole different ballgame. this triggered a long spell of major depression, something i've struggled with my whole life, and the depression led me to take some pretty stupid and un-slavelike actions...these actions led to an involuntary hospitalization. so by any account at that point in time, i was definitely unbalanced, unstable, incompetent. but gradually i came out of it, Daddy knew i would come out of it, and he decided to take legal action that would serve two purposes: primarily, getting me back home before i truly did lose my mind, and secondly, beginning the process of adopting me to further solidify his ownership of me, and to make caring for me easier. this would be unethical how? if an ignorant and unjust system can somehow be used for good, where is the wrong in that?

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 187

RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/18/2007 3:32:41 PM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

Thank you for the compliment. Master David wanted an intelligent, masochistic slave to own, who could think and reason for herself and who desired to be His full-service slave, willingly surrendering to His will and, He feels that He got what He was searching for, with me. He doesn't like to see me unhappy but, i can tell you, with all sincerity, that my Master makes me do plenty of things that don't make me happy. He does exactly what He wants with me and to me, for His own reasons, whether it makes me happy or not. Making me go for months without any sex, of any kind and, without being allowed to masturbate or orgasm doesn't make me happy and, it's a huge relief for me when He does finally decide to allow me to pleasure myself and, when He finally allows me to sit on His cock and ride it and, when He finally decides to tell me to cum. There are plenty of other examples i can give of the things that my Master decides to do with me that don't make me happy. The fulfillment that i get from being His unconditional slave is from knowing that He owns me completely, inside and out, 24/7 and, that i am able to fulfill my commitment to serving Him in all of the way that He wants. If He wanted to shit in my mouth every day, that would be fine with me. It wouldn't make me sick. His shit is sweet. The only things that go into His stomach are prepared by me, except for the occasional meal out. i make sure He eats well. No garbage in = no garbage out. Only good food in = only good shit out. i am honored to lick His ass clean, whenever He allows me. i have licked the ass of every Dom i have ever had a relationship with, if they wanted me to, as well as drinking their pee. i have been an ass-licker and piss-drinker for a very long time and have never gotten ill from doing either. i don't lick the ass or drink the piss of any man, only the ones i have an intimate, sexual relationship, even a couple of vanilla ones. i am very selective in the men i have had relationships with. And, i was even more selective in the Master i wanted to be owned by. Of course, i trust Him to do me no irrevocable harm. He's a man of honor and integrity and He's not a crazy man. If i didn't feel this way about Him, i wouldn't have agreed to become His property, in the first place. When i did agree to become His property, it was under His terms, not mine. He wanted a slave who could live by His terms and that's why He made sure i knew full well what He required of me and that i understood the terms and was agreeable to them, before He offered me His slave collar. i am His full-service, unconditional slave and, that's exactly what i was seeking from a 24/7 TPE Master/slave relationship. That is what i was seeking. That is what i found with Him. And, that is what i consented to, with Him. As i have said many times, just because i am submissive to my Master, doesn't make me submissive with anyone else. i am a very strong and capable adult, who knows how to take care of herself, when i need to. Just because i am a masochist, within my sexual relationship with my Master, doesn't mean that i go around letting anyone else slap me around. And, just because i place no restrictions on how my Master chooses to use me, as His property, doesn't mean that i don't place restrictions on how anyone else treats me. i have limitations in what i can do, naturally. For one thing, as a right leg amputee, i was unable to have a driver's license for the past 4 1/2 years because i had to first get a special gas pedal adapter installed on the car and take a special driver's training course and also get good fitting prosthetics, and so on. It was my Master who had to drive me 50 miles, each way, to the nearest V.A. medical facility to get my healthcare and, my Master who had to drive me everywhere else. He has provided all that i need and continues to do so, not because i demand it from Him but, because He cares about me and values me and wants to keep me healthy and fit and able to be with Him for a long time. He isn't going to throw all that He has with me away by causing me to become seriously injured, ill or dead. There is consent, in my relationship, without my placing any limits on what my Master chooses to do with me and to me. That is what i consented to. i am no newbie. i have been around for a long time and have had several D/s and vanilla relationships, some long term, some not so long. i have never been into doing 'scenes' with others, only in having committed, intimate relationships. After feeling dissatisfied with 'regular' D/s relationships, i realized what i needed to be content was to be totally controlled 24/7, with a Master i could depend on to be true to His word and do exactly what He said He would do and, not have any 'wiggle room' for me to get out of fulfilling my obligation to be His unconditional slave. That's what i searched for and that's what i now have and, it is exactly what i hoped it would be and, then some. i am completely devoted to my Master and i won't ever walk away from Him and, He knows it and He won't ever abuse that level of trust and devotion i for with Him. i made my choice, when i chose to accept Master David's offer to own me. i also make choices, whenever He offers me one, such as, "do you want to be whipped on your clit or your tits, first?" or, "do you want to go hiking in the mountains this weekend or go to the Arts Festival?" You know, the thing that is so great about the relationship i have with my Master is that there has been no need for me to ever try to guess what He wants. He told me upfront what He wanted from me and He has stayed true to what He said He would do to me and have me do. Every other relationship i have ever been in, D/s or not, i always had to try to figure out what was expected of me. i have never liked that. i like being told, explicitly, "this is what you are to do." And, i do it, without hesitation or complaint, no matter what it is and, that's what He likes and that's what makes me feel good inside. i don't tell anyone else that they should live this way, only that this is how i choose to live and it's the only way i want to live and i don't care what it's called or who thinks it's nothing more than fantasy or BS or anything else. But, i do know that if you don't think it's possible or, if you don't have any respect for this way of life, then, it's definately not for you. slave joyOwned property of Master David

quote:

ORIGINAL: TotalState

Slavegirljoy, you seem an intelligent woman. Don't you recognize that your Master is simply not making you do things that would make you unhappy in the long run? Do you think you'd consent to having him shit in your mouth every night until you got sick? What if he liked having her in a stage of constant sickness? Constant heartbreak? What if he simply likes you to be unhappy?

You *trust* him not to cause you grievious bodily or mental harm, and you don't *want* him to. If you don't walk away if he *were* causing you unwanted harm (and there is always such a thing...he is clearly not causing it to you), then I think you no longer have the most important essence of a good BDSM relationship: consent.

You are leading a no different life from some of the slaves I know, with the little difference that they *know* and *recognize* that there are certain things that they simply will not stand for, and would walk away if that was done to them. That's what we try to tell newbies they should always be aware of. Without limits, there simply isn't consent, there simply isn't choice.

(in reply to TotalState)

Post #: 188

RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/18/2007 5:32:49 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

greetings madrabbit,

in contrast to prop, i have not been declared mentally incompetent by any legal body that i know of, if that makes any difference to you, since it is something you keep coming back to, and since you keep lumping the two of us together. i am not sure it means anything, but i figured it bore mentioning.

greetings susie,

yes, i would impose boundaries and limits on new relationships or with people i do not know well or trust. i knew my master well before we entered into the relationship. i knew what kind of man he was, and i learned many more things about him as a master in the early stages of our relationship. there were also things i did not know and things i learned more about as time went along, and i came to accept those as a part of my life. without that level of trust i would not be a "no limits slave," because for me, to not have limits means not to impose boundaries or limits on my owner. i would not become the property of a person with whom i felt the need to have limits. that does not mean i am superhuman and can endure anything; i do actually have physical limitations like any other human being, and more than most 19-year-olds (or 40-year-olds, for that matter), but i choose not to enforce limits on actions which overwhelm my physical limitations. it does not mean i don't impose limits or boundaries with anyone; with the exception of my relationship with my master, i am not a doormat. i am also a financially self-sufficient and self-supporting woman with an academic career and a fairly healthy work life, as well as many other concerns in my life, and i would not be able to live day to day if i did not impose limits on my relationships with most everyone - i have too much responsibility and interaction with the world, it would be impossible, and that is not how i wish to live anyway (and it is not how he wishes me to live, coincidentally). my choice not to do so with my master is a combination of my identity as his slave and my trust in him as a master. he is very adamant that my submission to him is a choice, and i chose to give those limitations and boundaries up, in this particular capacity. it does not mean that i do so with everyone; it was not something that he even really required of me as a slave (although i know that it pleases him). it has allowed our relationship to develop in different, and for us, closer, ways...but i don't think he expected or planned for that to happen.

just a general note,

for personal reasons, i no longer post pictures and also sometimes refrain from discussing some things on the forum because they are more personal to me. generally, i am pretty receptive to discussing things and exchanging pictures via cmail, so if anyone would like to talk more personally, i am always open. i have been having some exceptional difficulties with my health lately, which is also impacting the rest of my life a lot, so i may not be very quick to respond but i do read and i will respond.

respectfully,
annabelle.

< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 10/18/2007 5:38:08 PM >

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 189

RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/18/2007 6:07:59 PM

TotalState

Posts: 278
Joined: 9/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

Of course, i trust Him to do me no irrevocable harm. He's a man of honor and integrity and He's not a crazy man. If i didn't feel this way about Him, i wouldn't have agreed to become His property, in the first place.

I apologize in advance for taking such a narrow quote from that gargantuan block of text you posted, but I feel it is not out of context.

That's a limit, right there. He isn't going to do certain things, and if he did become crazy, then perhaps you'd feel differently about him. Just imagine if he was no longer the man whose property you agreed to become, and you are getting at the crux of what we are debating here.

_____________________________

Spanking with a smile, living with feeling.

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 190

RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/18/2007 6:47:11 PM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

Of course there are limits in what i will and will not do. But, they aren't my limits. They are His limits, which He stated very clearly to me before i became His property and, which i agreed to. He made very sure that i understood His limits and His requirements and that i was agreeable to live by them. He isn't going to do certain things to me, because they fall outside His limits, not mine. His limits are what rule my life, with Him.

If He were to change the limits and requirements that He established with me, when He stated them, both verbally, many times and, in writing and, that i agreed to, when i accepted His slave collar, then He would be the one breaking His own terms of my enslavement to Him and He would be the one nullifying His ownership rights over me. i would, at that point, no longer be His property and would owe Him no allegiance, as His slave and, would be a free person and within my right to say, "No" to Him and to leave. Although, i could choose to accept His new limits and requirements and renew my slavery agreement with Him. But, i would be within my right to refuse His new limits and requirements, also. And, that would be His undoing of His ownership over me, not my undoing of it.

i don't live by my limits. i live by His limits. i agreed to His limits and, i accepted His limits. If He breaks them, He breaks His ownership over me and, i am no longer His slave, then. Everything that makes me His property is based on the limits, conditions and, requirements that He set forth and i accepted.

If you want to say that my limit is that my Master continue to uphold the terms, limits and, requirements that He set forth and i agreed to, when i became His property, that's perfectly fine. That is my one condition, as His slave. Is that what you needed me to say? Does that satisfy you in your endeavor to prove that i have a limit?

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

quote:

ORIGINAL: TotalState

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

Of course, i trust Him to do me no irrevocable harm. He's a man of honor and integrity and He's not a crazy man. If i didn't feel this way about Him, i wouldn't have agreed to become His property, in the first place.

I apologize in advance for taking such a narrow quote from that gargantuan block of text you posted, but I feel it is not out of context.

That's a limit, right there. He isn't going to do certain things, and if he did become crazy, then perhaps you'd feel differently about him. Just imagine if he was no longer the man whose property you agreed to become, and you are getting at the crux of what we are debating here.

(in reply to TotalState)

Post #: 191

RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/18/2007 6:51:32 PM

came4U

Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline

again this has turned all circular.

claiming 'no limits' by having 'limits'.

If I cared enough, I'd pull my own hair out LOL.

< Message edited by came4U -- 10/18/2007 6:52:13 PM >

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 192

RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/18/2007 6:54:47 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TotalState

That's a limit, right there. He isn't going to do certain things, and if he did become crazy, then perhaps you'd feel differently about him. Just imagine if he was no longer the man whose property you agreed to become, and you are getting at the crux of what we are debating here.

Huh. Maybe we need a forum for Doms who go crazy or get hit in the head and become someone else.

(in reply to TotalState)

Post #: 193

RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/18/2007 6:55:53 PM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U
If I cared enough, I'd pull my own hair out LOL.

i feel the same way. Fortunately for me, my Master has a limit that i am not allowed to pull my own hair. Only He is allowed to pull my hair out. Yeah for me!

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

(in reply to came4U)

Post #: 194

RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/18/2007 7:00:49 PM

came4U

Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline

quote:

Only He is allowed to pull my hair out. Yeah for me!

If it stopped being a 'limit' play and you had a subgaleal hematoma there would be no 'yeah me'.

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 195

RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/18/2007 7:08:47 PM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: InkedMaster

Really I knew better than to click on this thread, I really did, but it's like a fucking train wreck, ya just gotta look...now if ya'll will excuse me, I'm off to put a sharp stick in my eye...

LOL!!! i am with you on this!! i tried to stay away and i couldn't...

MadRabbit,
i am sending you a whole lotta "no limits" love. i would comment further on the subject but you are doing an excellent job of expressing my thoughts. Keep up the good work

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to InkedMaster)

Post #: 196

RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/18/2007 7:19:50 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

When the day comes when I have full experience with an individual who has trully convinced me that they are completely wired differently, I will change my opinion

Okay, since you said the door wasn't closed I invite you to read the link below. It involves how the brain is 'wired'. When you take the information presented and couple it with the fact that experience is unique to each individual, perhaps you'll come to the same conclusion that I did which is that everyone is wired differently and much of it has to do with the things they experience. Even how and when those experiences happen can effect an individual in different ways.

http://www.nap.edu/html/howpeople1/ch5.html

Some of the posters to these forums have spoken about their childhoods which weren't, exactly, what I would deem normal or healthy. I include myself in that group. Who can, truly, know what sort of effect that will have on an individual, the structure of the brain and the way they think?

quote:

I trust your words around here a lot more then many other peoples, but even now, things just arent adding up for me.

Why? Because reviewing the "Worthlessness" thread, you refused to eat a tomatoe that you were told to eat because you were allergic to it.

The time I spent with Master A ran from 1982 - 1985 starting when I was 22. I did not identify as a slave but rather as a bottom who happened to also be a submissive woman. I never made the claim that I was without limits back then. It's apples and oranges to try to compare that girl with who I am today.

The butcher knife incident, I related to try to express that what one is willing to do in certain moments can go well beyond what they believe they will do when the environment is stress or emotion free.

If I 'know' that I'll go some place when stressed, or afraid or angry or whatever emotion has taken over my normal, rational mind, how can I, with honesty, say it's a limit? Is it more honest to say that 'slamming doors is a limit' or 'slamming doors is not a limit because I may slam a door when I get angry' even though you don't normally go around slamming doors, even if you never slammed a door in your life, but you know that you 'could' slam a door in the right circumstance? Are limits conditional to our rationality and when we are emotional or irrational then limits become superfluous? Is it more honest to include what 'may' happen when we're beyond the edges of our rational brains and in touch with our primal selves or are we to discard the possibilities and the maybes because they are unlikely to happen and only 'could' happen in the right set of circumstances?

Those questions are probably best answered by every individual for themselves and their partners. For me, if I'm aware something 'might' be, I make it clear that it 'might' be even though it probably won't ever come about. I can't call that a limit when it's a possibility.

I must say, that the number of people here who have stated that logic and rationality cannot be found here, on collarme, makes me wonder if I'm not wasting time and effort in this place. It's given me a great deal of pause as it's a pattern I see repeated. As they say, one of the definitions of insanity it to continue doing the same thing in hopes of a different result and despite what some of you may think of me, I don't believe that I'm insane.. which could, of course, be proof that I am and if that's the case, I really don't mind sitting in a corner wearing a straight jacket. That is, most certainly, not a limit.

Celeste

edited to repair quote

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 10/18/2007 7:22:35 PM >

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 197

RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/18/2007 7:25:02 PM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

quote:

Only He is allowed to pull my hair out. Yeah for me!

If it stopped being a 'limit' play and you had a subgaleal hematoma there would be no 'yeah me'.

Well, fortunately for me, my Master has a limit that no one, including Himself, will cause me any severe head trauma. So, Yeah for me again!

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

(in reply to came4U)

Post #: 198

RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/18/2007 7:26:08 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

*sigh*...we are speaking about a legal decision that was made several years ago, not last week.

Last week... Last month... Last year... Last Decade.... it is irrelevant... a legal decision that is gained with unethical means is still unethical regardless of how much time has past.

quote:

i was going through a very rocky period, having great difficulty adjusting to a new situation with my Master (living together), and being slapped in the face with the reality of being a slave. before that time, i will admit to holding onto a few romanticized notions of the concept, because i had no previous experience with such a relationship, and while intellectually i understood that some things would be difficult, experiencing and enduring such things firsthand was a whole different ballgame. this triggered a long spell of major depression, something i've struggled with my whole life, and the depression led me to take some pretty stupid and un-slavelike actions...these actions led to an involuntary hospitalization.

so.. what you are saying that you entered into a M/s relationship with rose coloured glasses. That you have a been a person prior to this that struggled with depression. The reality of taking off the rose coloured glasses and your depression issue vault you into some rather stupid and unslave like behaviors.

Now this behaviors was so significant that it resulted to an "Involuntary" hosptialization. It is very rare that one is Involuntarily hospitlized. Now my own instinctive and intellectual reasoning makes me consider that Attempted Suicide is the mostly likely of possibilities that resulted in your "Involuntary" Hospitialization. It should be noted that in many cases a person who has attempted suicide will be given the ability to "Volunatarily" check themselves in. Of course this is generally more a rubber stamp offer that is an important first step in getting the person on a path of recovery. Since such a person will be "Involuntarily" Committed if they don't go willingly. The fact that you were"Involuntarily" committed reflects very strongly the state of your mind at the time. It also reflects very strongly that you likely was very much in disobedience to your Master as well... Since I would assume that any action that would of gained your "Involuntary" hosptialization would of been done with the support of your master. Unless of course he was against the idea of you being hospitalized?

quote:

so by any account at that point in time, i was definitely unbalanced, unstable, incompetent. but gradually i came out of it,

So you were definitely were "Unbalanced", "Unstable" and "Incompetent" AT that moment in your life and this was what allowed your master to gain the "Legal" declaration of you being "Mentally Incompetent" and his ward.

mmmmmmmmmm of course that is confusing when you state the following to Erin....

quote:

yes, you've said this over and over again, and it amazes me that you make these statements with such conviction and such faith in the law, as if it is this all-knowing, all-mighty, perfect and just entity that is the ultimate word in judging what is good or bad, right or wrong. everyday our legal and mental health system flocks up countless lives, many times their judgements have proven to be unsound, illogical, biased, ignorant. if you personally wish to believe that myself and anyone else who has ever been legally declared mentally incompetent incapable of ever giving valid consent, that is your perogative to do so, but i would hope that most would use their minds, heart and good sense.

-prop

The very implication of your statement here is that even thou you had been legally declared mentally incompetent that you could give valid consent.

But yet.. you show rather plainly that you Entered into a relationship with rose-coloured glasses and coupled with struggling with depression most of your life.. you took actions that resulted in your "Involuntary" Hospitalization.

So... yup.. you consented... "With Rose-coloured On"... the reality of being his slave along with your depression issues resulted in actions that brought about "Involuntary" Hospitalization.

So it might be argued that the consent was not the right decision for you since that consent lead you down a very destructive path. That you have not been able to make a decision of consent after this self-destructive path free of undue influence and therefore.. you have never given capable consent for the life you are living. Since.. you actually consent to a rose-coloured world.

Or it might be that it was not the consent.. but actually the treatment from said Master that allowed the situation to deteriorate to a point that resulted in your depression developing to a point that causes behaviors that resulted in your "Involuntary" Hospitalization.

quote:

Daddy knew i would come out of it, and he decided to take legal action that would serve two purposes: primarily, getting me back home before i truly did lose my mind, and secondly, beginning the process of adopting me to further solidify his ownership of me, and to make caring for me easier. this would be unethical how? if an ignorant and unjust system can somehow be used for good, where is the wrong in that?

mmmmmmm well.... the fact is you actually lost your mind in his home and gained enough of your mind back while in hospital to allow legal action to be successful. I would also suggest that you where far from honest about the relationship structure with the doctors and therapist that you seen while in your little hospital stay. Of course maybe you did and your Master pawn it as your condition affected your view of things.. so in effect..one or the other lied.

Lastly... the legal action wasn't about solidifying ownership as it was about protecting his ass! You Became Unstable and Incompetent in His Home. Living in a relationship structure that would very much get the authorities attention given your mental condition.

Yes.. the system "Can be" (not is) ignorant and unjust.... especially when it's LIED to! Unethical behaivor even for what a person believes to be for someones good.. is still Unethical. Secondly... the motivations was NOT altruistic for your benefit as you would like to believe.

Thanks for answering..... it has only more strongly supported my opinion of the lack of ethics that exist in your story. But, I do not doubt that you had and likely do have serious mental issues. However, I also know personally that mental issues (even for those that have attempted suicide) can recover and live extremely healthy and productive lives.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 199

RE: No limits - and what it really means - 10/18/2007 7:31:41 PM

TotalState

Posts: 278
Joined: 9/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

i don't live by my limits. i live by His limits. i agreed to His limits and, i accepted His limits. If He breaks them, He breaks His ownership over me and, i am no longer His slave, then. Everything that makes me His property is based on the limits, conditions and, requirements that He set forth and i accepted.

If you want to say that my limit is that my Master continue to uphold the terms, limits and, requirements that He set forth and i agreed to, when i became His property, that's perfectly fine. That is my one condition, as His slave. Is that what you needed me to say? Does that satisfy you in your endeavor to prove that i have a limit?

Yes. Yes it does!

And more importantly, it gives those submissives that are new to the scene and looking for a relationship such as yours important insight into what they should be looking for.

Edit: I can't spell the word 'relationship' properly, apparently.

< Message edited by TotalState -- 10/18/2007 7:32:53 PM >

_____________________________

Spanking with a smile, living with feeling.

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 200

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