quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Then you need to reread my post because we are mincing words. You might want to reread some of the past posts you have made and some of the things you have claimed.

Taking on the limits of your Master is not the same as having no limits. Allowing those limits to be pushed and changed isnt the same thing.

You got an apple, but want to keep argueing its an orange.

I would be interesting in you providing some examples of these things that have put you in physical and psychological danger.

I can put someone in danger by putting a knife close to their neck with the risk of an accident happening and cutting an artery.

I can cause some minor psychological trauma by pushing past a limit with watersports, but it wont be anything that would qualify as "harm" in the scope of emotional damage.

If you want to make the claim that your removal of personal limits with him doesnt come with faith and trust in his benevolance as a human being, then I consider your entering the relationship with him to be a very stupid decision, because in my firm opinion, that faith and trust is what greases the gears of the relationship.

If you want to claim that you will not enforce boundaries with him when he is putting you in life threatening harm, then I say we arent in Kansas anymore. (Edited to Add : And so we arent argueing over semantics, when I say "life threatening", I dont mean "walking outside to get the paper and being exposed to the threat of getting hit by a meteor". I mean "If you do this, you are going to die")

If it is true, then I consider you to be a dangerous individual and the worst slave to own. It is my firm opinion that anyone will trully do anything with no regard to the amount of harm that comes of them simply for the power trip of another human being is the worst slave to own.

People might make the "self sacrifice" arguments in rebuttal to this, but someone who sacrfices their life to save the life of a loved one and someone who lets someone kill them simply because of their Master's whim are not in the same context AT ALL.

If someone were to willing allow their Master to drown them in a bathtub for their own pleasyre and try to make it as easy as possible, well...that might sound all wonderful and great in fantasy and romantic land and a really nice ending to a romantic Master and slave fantasy story, but in reality, I call that person the very literal definition of a "doormat".

I am glad we have fully left the land of reality and rationality and entered the "No Limits" zone where things that in reality are very negative get narrated and romanticized as something beautiful and glorified.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

First off, I am reading what you are saying and I am trying to understand your relationship,
[snip]

quote:


obviously if he were drowning me (and i used this example in the other thread) i would fight back physically because that's what my body is supposed to do, but i would do my damndest not to make it any harder than it has to be. obviously my health causes problems...if he were to want me to kneel for 12 hours, i might be crying in pain about an hour through it but i would do my damndest to stay on my knees. to me it means i actively trust in him and choose not to impose any kinds of limits or boundaries on his ownership of me. i don't consider it romantic; personally, walking off a cliff is not my idea of a good time. if he wanted it, i'd do it, but that doesn't mean i live in some wonderful fantasyland of being a no limits slave.

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

[i am just tired of the total disrespect and lack of acceptance towards those of us who live the other side.

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears
You fail to understand that for some that is the point. If the claims you make are true the only way to prove them would be to actually perish at the hands of your Master - if thats the case you don't "live" on any side. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Then you need to reread my post because we are mincing words. You might want to reread some of the past posts you have made and some of the things you have claimed.

Taking on the limits of your Master is not the same as having no limits. Allowing those limits to be pushed and changed isnt the same thing.

You got an apple, but want to keep argueing its an orange.

I would be interesting in you providing some examples of these things that have put you in physical and psychological danger.

I can put someone in danger by putting a knife close to their neck with the risk of an accident happening and cutting an artery.

I can cause some minor psychological trauma by pushing past a limit with watersports, but it wont be anything that would qualify as "harm" in the scope of emotional damage.

If you want to make the claim that your removal of personal limits with him doesnt come with faith and trust in his benevolance as a human being, then I consider your entering the relationship with him to be a very stupid decision, because in my firm opinion, that faith and trust is what greases the gears of the relationship.

If you want to claim that you will not enforce boundaries with him when he is putting you in life threatening harm, then I say we arent in Kansas anymore. (Edited to Add : And so we arent argueing over semantics, when I say "life threatening", I dont mean "walking outside to get the paper and being exposed to the threat of getting hit by a meteor". I mean "If you do this, you are going to die")

If it is true, then I consider you to be a dangerous individual and the worst slave to own. It is my firm opinion that anyone will trully do anything with no regard to the amount of harm that comes of them simply for the power trip of another human being is the worst slave to own.

People might make the "self sacrifice" arguments in rebuttal to this, but someone who sacrfices their life to save the life of a loved one and someone who lets someone kill them simply because of their Master's whim are not in the same context AT ALL.

If someone were to willing allow their Master to drown them in a bathtub for their own pleasyre and try to make it as easy as possible, well...that might sound all wonderful and great in fantasy and romantic land and a really nice ending to a romantic Master and slave fantasy story, but in reality, I call that person the very literal definition of a "doormat".

I am glad we have fully left the land of reality and rationality and entered the "No Limits" zone where things that in reality are very negative get narrated and romanticized as something beautiful and glorified.

for you, a slave who imposes no limits on her Master, who obeys without question, hesitation or restriction, who considers her Master's will to be law and places him above herself always, is the worst sort of slave to own. that's fine, that's your belief and preference. but for others, such a slave is the ONLY kind of slave to own, because they will accept nothing else in an ownership dynamic. as for the doormat comment, i've never understood where the great insult lies in being a doormat, particularly to one's own Master. from my viewpoint it seems a bit strange that a Master would want his slave to fight, refuse or disobey him, or to consider her own wellbeing before his will. but whatever floats your boat i guess. still, like others have said, i am just tired of the total disrespect and lack of acceptance towards those of us who live the other side.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bondagenexus

Count me as another who is off his rocker.  While I could not imagine this drowning or cliff diving actually happening in my wildest dreams, the example speaks to me as a Dominant.  There is something beautiful and amazing in the promise to actively trust even in the most extreme examples.

Where do I hand in my "Good Dominant" card?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

~FR~

True story.

It was our second meeting. I didn't trust him. Hell, I barely knew him. He stood behind me with an arm drapped, in a rather lazy fashion, around my shoulders with a butcher knife held to my throat and whispered in my ear, "I could kill you now and bury you in my basement and no one would ever find you." That was a fact. No one knew where I was or what I was doing. I wanted him to do it. Oh god, but I really wanted him to do it.  I even spoke the words. "Do it." I didn't know, in that moment, whether he would do it or not but I didn't struggle or try to stop him. What a rush that was.. what a thrill. Absolutely amazing. In that moment, where I faced my death I had never felt so fucking alive. I had never felt that way before and I have never felt that way again and I will never feel that again because with Michael I 'know' he won't ever go there ... but Master A, he may have .. he didn't, but he may have and that uncertainty was intoxicating. I could easily see how it could become addictive. I didn't die, so I can't 'prove' what, apparently needs to happen for proof to be obtained but not because I didn't want it .. but because he didn't do it.

I really don't know what else to say. I know, for a fact, that the intoxication of the unknown can be an incredible drug and if you keep going further and further to obtain it's fix, eventually limits and boundaries become meaningless because they will prevent you from finding the unicorn you seek.

Celeste

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit


You posted another true story in the "Ask a Submissive" section called "Feelings of Worthlessness". After reading that, I find it hard to glorify someone who refuses to say no to anything.

I'm sorry if people dont want to hear my viewpoints or think I am being "intolerant", but these points I am making, for the scope of this discussion, need to be included.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit


You posted another true story in the "Ask a Submissive" section called "Feelings of Worthlessness". After reading that, I find it hard to glorify someone who refuses to say no to anything.

I'm sorry if people dont want to hear my viewpoints or think I am being "intolerant", but these points I am making, for the scope of this discussion, need to be included.

It's a good thing that I'm not seeking glory then.

MR, you need to understand something. I think your viewpoint is not only valid, but vital to discussions such as these. Most people do have limits, 'should' have limits, should be aware of their limits and should have their limits respected and honored. There are, however, a very small group of people who have none of those things. To point out the obvious, tolerance and acceptence have nothing to do with the subject. It simply is what it is and regardless of whether or not people believe in it, glorify it or are horrified by it, it does exist. By refusing to acknowledge, even it's existance, I believe it can push certain personalities types to try to 'prove' you wrong.. and given what 'proof' you require, I don't think that's a good thing.

That's 'my' perspective.

Celeste

edited to delete unnecessary quoting

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit


You posted another true story in the "Ask a Submissive" section called "Feelings of Worthlessness". After reading that, I find it hard to glorify someone who refuses to say no to anything.

I'm sorry if people dont want to hear my viewpoints or think I am being "intolerant", but these points I am making, for the scope of this discussion, need to be included.

It's a good thing that I'm not seeking glory then.

MR, you need to understand something. I think your viewpoint is not only valid, but vital to discussions such as these. Most people do have limits, 'should' have limits, should be aware of their limits and should have their limits respected and honored. There are, however, a very small group of people who have none of those things. To point out the obvious, tolerance and acceptence have nothing to do with the subject. It simply is what it is and regardless of whether or not people believe in it, glorify it or are horrified by it, it does exist. By refusing to acknowledge, even it's existance, I believe it can push certain personalities types to try to 'prove' you wrong.. and given what 'proof' you require, I don't think that's a good thing.

That's 'my' perspective.

Celeste

edited to delete unnecessary quoting

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

quote:

ORIGINAL: NControlofU

Some scoff at the very thought that anyone can really be a no limits slave.  Just because you are someone who can't understand, percieve, or believe something exists, doesn't mean that it doesn't.  Your reality is only based on what you have experienced and witnessed firtshand.  It isn't based on every relationship out there because you don't have personal, real life knowledge of every relationship out there.  If you are someone who chooses to believe that anyone who says they are an unconditional slave, with no limits in her service to her master is a liar or delusional or romaticizing reality thats entirely up to you but it doesn't mean that your right.  Go spend a weekend with a "no limits" slave and her Master and see for yourself what their lif is like before you write it off as a bunch of internet BS.  If you don't believe its possible then you probably will never have it.  But that doesnt mean that no one else has it.

well said, but unfortunately it won't be understood or accepted by those who need to absorb it most.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit


I dont know. Maybe I prefer some slaves with some sense of self worth and sense of self respect.

Wow....I'm the wrong one because I want a partner with self esteem. The descent into madness is almost mind boggling.

I am tired of listening to people who feel the need to glorify something that doesnt need to be glorified or even entered into the scope of rational or logical thought.

As if somehow...

Someone who would let their Master drown them while trying to make it as least resistable as possible...
Someone who would walk off a cliff to their death based on their Master's whim...
Someone who would let their Master tie them to a tree and leave them in the middle of nowhere for a week....

is something that can be considered a "good and healthy thing" in the scope of rational and logical thought.

Maybe in Daddysprops fantasy world, but in my pragmatic and realist perspective, I would call these things a serious lack of self worth.

I've read a few more examples of "No Limit" relationships and I will gladly recognize them as "No Limit" relationships. I am not saying "No Limits" in the scope of a relationship cant exist according to certain definitions, but still as I read these posts, I find nothing contary to the very simple logic I am holding to.

Being in an enviroment where one doesnt NEED to enforce boundaries to protect themselves from harm is not the same thing as a human being who will not enforce boundaries to protect themselves from harm when needed.
 
Fortune and healthy circumstances where certain boundaries dont have to be crossed doesnt equate to a "factual" definition where all boundaries can be crossed or will be allowed to be crossed.
 
I have gladly accepted quite a few definitions of "No Limits", but some people insist on taking this far down the Rabbit Hole into Wonderland.

If some people want to make the claim to being super slaves who will not enforce ANY boundaries when push comes to shove, they can go right ahead.

I'll beleive it when I see some obituaries.

I'm sure some people at the eulogy will cry and say "Wow, its so romantic. This slave's devotion was so strong that she self destructed simply for the sheer whim of her Master."

I, unfortanely, will be the guy in the background going "What a nut with no sense of self worth and a pointless waste of human life."

But until that day comes, dont expect me to turn off my brain and beleive that the Internet manifestos of a 19 year old and a 26 year old are actual proof of the existence of the mythical "No Limits" slave with absolutely no limtis and who will not enforce any boundary in any circumstance because of their hardcore super slave devotion.

A whole score of book writers and people with tons of experience with the public scene have all made to claim to never ever meeting anyone quite like you, but yet...amazingly....here you are on Collarme.com for all to see.

Want respect? Write something worth respecting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati

Although I know I truly have no limits when it comes to my Sir, but, thats only after I made the choice myself to belong to him. So, I guess thats a limit? I dunno, not sure if itll make sense, but I had my limits for a relationship when I was single.

(i added underlining and boldface, to highlight these words)

Just because someone isn't submissive with all people, doesn't mean that they must not be a submissive person. Just because someone isn't a masochist with all people, doesn't mean that they must not be a masochist. Just because someone isn't "no limits" with all people, doesn't meant that they must not be "no limits". It would be very unsafe and unwise to be a submissive, masochist, with no limits with all people.  But, to be in a relationship where you are able to be submissive and have no limits with that person, to me, is a beautiful thing, and it's the basis for all that i live for in my relationship with my Master.
 
For me, the feeling of complete powerlessness with my Master is the greatest high i have ever known and, like with most feelings of euphoria, i want it more and more.  i rely totally on my Master's good sense and reason to know how far to take me and how to keep me safe. 

Edited to add:  Just because someone willingly and knowingly enters into a relationship where her Master holds all the power over her (including the power of life and death decisions) and she understands and accepts, that within the relationship with her Master, she exerts no power and sets no limits on the relationship or, on her Master or, on how He chooses to use her, doesn't mean that she has no sense of self-worth.  Nor does it mean that she has no integrity or, that she isn't in-touch with reality. 
 
Just because i willingly lay down so that my  Master can wipe His muddy boots on me doesn't mean that i am a "doormat" to the world.
 
For those who hold a negative opinion about a person who would accept and live by "no limits" within her M/s relationship, i say, "Are you basing your opinion on having actually met such a person in real life and having gotten to know her?"   If you hold this opinion, without having met such a person, then your opinion is based only on your own preconceived notions and false ideas, which you are certainly entitled to have, no matter how far out-of-touch with the reality of my relationship your opinions happen to be.
 
 slave joyOwned property of Master David