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total/complete submission - 10/17/2007 3:04:50 PM   
serisa


Posts: 219
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline 		Hi, do any Masters have any deeper thoughts on total/complete submission... beyond the 'happily doing all i ask!... ie what does it mean to You?, how would You define it?... how do You think You would know if You found it?, or how did You know?.  do You think 'love' has to be present for this to be achieved?
any subs/slaves about who are there or have been there... what does it mean to you?
 
thank Y/you !
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RE: total/complete submission - 10/17/2007 3:15:21 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		The really good ones are empaths-they get into your head.......but what else would you expect from the counterparts of people who do the same? The strange thing being-we are pretty much the same creature-just wired as different legs of the cricuit.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to serisa)
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RE: total/complete submission - 10/17/2007 3:22:27 PM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		nice pic RRafe...finally....

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to RRafe)
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RE: total/complete submission - 10/17/2007 3:29:22 PM   
DarkDaddyZ


Posts: 805
Joined: 4/7/2006
Status: offline 		No,

Because I've never experienced total/complete submission.  What I've experienced is people who crave to submit and experience power exchange and take the steps toward that through a relationship.

Taking elements of life and giving control of it.  But still being the person they were when they came into the relationship.

Lost in power exchange?  Yes, craving the relationship and pleasing their owner, yes?  Balancing life's responsiblities with power exchange, I wouldn't want it any other way.

But to just take someone and put them in the box (and that is how I define total submission, not everyone defines it that way) that's not me.

Complete power exchange to me, is something different.

Enjoy the day!

Z-


_____________________________

"Flirting is part of the job description." DJ Jesus (Lucy Daughter Of The Devil)

Vanilla Official Music Page http://www.myspace.com/djzulu

(in reply to chellekitty)
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RE: total/complete submission - 10/17/2007 3:43:07 PM   
interestedfemale


Posts: 18
Joined: 9/24/2007
Status: offline 		RRafe
I have agree with you.  Its that yin and yang thing........lol
For me, i came into this alt lifestyle with love. Wanting to fill HIS desires, and found out, hmmmmmmmmm wow i really like this more then anything else.....lol.
As lots say, i was born submissive, just never found someone before SIR that didn't treat me like a doormat. HE honors and cherishes my submissiveness (i guess you could say)
the more i please him the more he pleases me...........so it goes round and round........sounds stupid huh?
Its not just a "do for me now bitch" thing that's for sure. (although i do like when he calls me his sexy bitch)
Again, for us it had to be love, for others, they speak of a strong respect, trust (of course) and friendship.
from what i have been reading and learning, there's no true way.
its what works for the people involved. and if it doesn't work for ya.................................NEXT!

btw rrafe your quite handsome.....love the pic

(in reply to chellekitty)
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RE: total/complete submission - 10/17/2007 3:45:43 PM   
Sabella


Posts: 265
Joined: 7/26/2005
Status: offline 		<---sub here

Well I think you're gonna get a zillion different answers (that I look forward to reading!!) because every relationship is different. After doing tons of reading the one thing I have found is that I can't classify myself (HA!) or him either. We are who we are. He would still be the person he is without someone's hair to pull. I would still be myself without someone "telling me what to do". But really the end result we have is not unlike roots growing into the ground. Over time they've progressed and grown deeper, gone around some big rocks, withstood some pretty fierce storms.

What does this have to do with the price of tea in China? alot for me. It's a willing and searching progression. His "orders" for me are very rare, other than regarding my health or safety or telling him when something is bothering me. My orders come internally from my searching to be the best person, for him, that I can be. In the process I am becoming the best person I can be for ME as well.

I don't think love per se would be a requirement. Respect and caring yes. But isn't that also love? Service is a very satisfying part of our relationship. I love doing for him. I have learned to enjoy cooking and cleaning, they are no longer "chores" in my mind because what I'm doing is making his life easier and my life with him better as well because of it. He works and brings in $$$, I clean and cook and shop and do all of the household stuff. Do I HAVE to? No. I do it because it makes our free time much more enjoyable without these things hanging over our household, hindering our time together. So service is part of "total/complete submission" for me. Not just the act of doing it, but the attitude. I could accomplish the same things with a resentful frame of mind, or do them with a smile and feel rewarded and grateful for the opportunity to be able to provide this service, often invisibly.

The direction we go with our lives & various activities reminds me of being in the ocean. I could float along wherever the current took me, indifferent. Or I could fight against it wearing myself out and perhaps making some headway in the opposite direction for a short period of time. But we're alot more effective together if I swim with it and assist to the best of my abilities if this makes any sense? While I'm in the water if I didn't trust him to keep me safe but spent all my time worrying about sharks or unseen obsticles or storms that too would be fighting against him and be counter productive to my submission and trust.

Rafe it's interesting you posted about empaths. It's been a strange (and sometimes painful!) part of our relationship. Now if I could figure out how to disperse it when I siphon it off  But its a fun part too. Hard to spring surprises on each other, LOL. He'll try to sneak home early from work one day and I'm standing there on the porch with a smile and his cup of coffee. Or I'll plot for weeks some special event and he already knows what it is


< Message edited by Sabella -- 10/17/2007 3:53:25 PM >

_____________________________

“The giant Grof was hit in one eye by a stone,
and that eye turned inward so that it looked into his mind and he died of what he saw there.”
From The Forgotten Beasts of Eld, by Patricia A. McKillip

(in reply to DarkDaddyZ)
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RE: total/complete submission - 10/17/2007 3:50:11 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

nice pic RRafe...finally....


I guess I can't use the old "I have to wash my hair tonight" excuse any more.

Bother.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to chellekitty)
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RE: total/complete submission - 10/17/2007 3:52:16 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

The really good ones are empaths-they get into your head.......


Oh, oh.. and bald heads are soooo much easier to get in to.

Nice pic, hot stuff.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to RRafe)
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RE: total/complete submission - 10/17/2007 4:01:07 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		It's not about the action, it's about the authority.

And anyone who seriously worries about having "total/complete submission" is someone who is not focused on the actual relationship.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: total/complete submission - 10/17/2007 4:19:22 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

It's not about the action, it's about the authority.

And anyone who seriously worries about having "total/complete submission" is someone who is not focused on the actual relationship.


Why do I always think of "cartman" when you say that word?

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: total/complete submission - 10/17/2007 4:33:36 PM   
Argentopal


Posts: 379
Joined: 12/12/2005
From: Central Texas / Hill Country
Status: offline 		good evening.  please remember ... mho only and everyone else's mmv and all ideas are 'real'.  First of all, I do feel that people who think in absolutes have been brainwashed or hoodwinked into thinking there has to be a "perfect way".  What is perfect for you is not for me and all the way down the line.  There have been some interesting responses so far.

First of all - for ME - yes love has to be a part of it because there has to be absolute trust.  I have friends that I can say I would "trust with my life" and friends i would willingly play/ bottom to and trust them.  I would gladly serve them in most (but not "ALL" ways).  But for that last ounce of surrender, it is and always has been and always will be Argent.  Yes, my submission is complete.  I do not agree that it means I am put into a box and have no free will, no ideas, opinions.  It does not mean i need to be micro-managed.  It does not mean I am not allowed, and yes, even encouraged to voice my opinions and ideas and outlook.  It means that at the end of the day (or end of the discussion or whatever) Argent has the last word.  I am not a robot or a door mat or a stepford wife, but i promised to obey him, i promised to do as he wants in all things.  We are not perfect and we have had times when things seemed to be on shakey ground.  But each time we do find our way back and we do become stronger and more resillient and our committment to each other and to the life we have choosen to live does become stronger.  I honsetly take great pride in doing the things he requires and even the things I just do because I love taking care of him and his home.  I know that each thing I do reflects on him.  Obeying him is my primary responsibility, making his life easier and more pleasant is my focus.  Whether it is accepting his punishments or his play or his word on how to do something, i made a promise to him a decade ago and i meant it.  He made a promise to me as well, and I know he will always and honestly do his best to take care of me in every way.  It is not just how we live, it is who we are. it does not make us any better than anyone else, it just makes us - well, us!

< Message edited by Argentopal -- 10/17/2007 4:40:09 PM >

_____________________________

He held out His hand and said "Step into the abyss with me."

... and i did.


~Surrender without Fear~
~Power without Guilt~
~Love without Doubt~

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: total/complete submission - 10/17/2007 4:36:22 PM   
ManOfAdventures


Posts: 21
Joined: 10/11/2007
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		It requires Love, profound trust, and mutual respect. More here:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1347734/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#1348187

Christopher

(in reply to RRafe)
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RE: total/complete submission - 10/17/2007 6:52:05 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ManOfAdventures

It requires Love, profound trust, and mutual respect. More here:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1347734/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#1348187

Christopher


I liked that very much... I also enjoyed reading this:
http://www.collarchat.com/m_1240921/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#1240921



(in reply to ManOfAdventures)
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RE: total/complete submission - 10/17/2007 8:04:29 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		um.....Rrafe's hot.......


I'm not sure what "total submission" is and I agree with LA to an extent, again, as with many things, submission depends on the relationship and what the two people desire. If I understand what you are asking, however, for me, as a sub, it's that feeling of surrender, of completely trusting, of knowing he/she safeguards you and letting go.  As a top, it's the anticipation of your needs and desires and willingness to grow despite mental conflict with where they are leading you.
l

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 10/17/2007 8:28:42 PM >

(in reply to angelikaJ)
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RE: total/complete submission - 10/18/2007 8:50:15 AM   
masterdstar


Posts: 160
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		It's all in the head fuck, the best fuck of all.
There is no secret, on B/both sides you either get it, want it, need it, understand it ... or ...not.

enjoy your wonder-filled day

(in reply to laurell3)
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RE: total/complete submission - 10/18/2007 11:24:13 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		When they give me complete power of attorney over themselves and agree to allow me to remove their tongue and clitoris.  Anything else is just fluffy bullshit.

(in reply to masterdstar)
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RE: total/complete submission - 10/18/2007 1:13:12 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		The answers posted here are interesting.

It took me years to get to this point with Mr. Wonderful.  It didn't require putting me in a box, either, in fact part of totally submitting to him means submitting the requirement that I am a strong and productive, highly esteemed character in the world around me.


(in reply to serisa)
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RE: total/complete submission - 10/18/2007 1:38:55 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		I don't know that I can define "total/complete submission".  I would do better to give my thoughts on full submission as it pertains to what I would like in my relationship dynamic. 

I like a strong, intelligent woman whose life has not revolved solely around a search for One.  Someone who is submissive but not to everyone but whose submission resonates within my dominance.  Someone who understands that I have a need to guide and nurture and discipline and be sexual and be sadistic and who wants that and who especially wants it the way I do it.  Someone who understands that there are going to be missteps along the way...by both of us...and that the consequences for those missteps, while different, are there and will be followed through on.  I want someone who knows that I am not her therapist nor her "sponge" of ego-stroke but who will support her in her efforts to deal with issues that need to be dealt with and that I won't run scared when confronted with them and that the praise I give is meant from the heart and the mind and not just from one place or the other.  Full submission is knowing that while I understand that my place in her list of priorities gets shifted around, I expect it to remain at the top or near it and she wants to do her best to do just that.  Full submission is having listened to me before she became a submissive and listening harder now so that she understands where I am coming from and what I want without me having to make it clear every other day.  Full submission is understanding and accepting my three basic rules...courtesy and civility, patience, and communication...and understanding the basic premise that while there is room for one "leader" in a D/s dynamic, there is room for two partners also.

(in reply to serisa)
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RE: total/complete submission - 10/18/2007 4:29:36 PM   
adoracat


Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

When they give me complete power of attorney over themselves and agree to allow me to remove their tongue and clitoris.  Anything else is just fluffy bullshit.


that's just silly.  how can she lick your balls if you remove her tongue?

kiten, tongue in cheek

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: total/complete submission - 10/18/2007 6:23:33 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: serisa

 'happily doing all i ask
Master doesn't want to have to ask. His view is that obedience is over rated. He can get his dog to obey. He wants someone that is proactive. That doesn't mean that he never makes requests. It just means that he wants me to anticipate his needs.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to serisa)
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