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Turkey approves incursion - 10/17/2007 4:58:28 PM

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ANKARA, Turkey - Parliament on Wednesday overwhelmingly approved a possible cross-border offensive against Kurdish rebels in northern Iraq, although the government appears willing to give diplomatic pressure on the U.S.-backed Iraqi administration more time to work.

Lawmakers voted 507-19 in favor of empowering the government to order the military to cross into Iraq during a one-year period, Parliament Speaker Koksal Toptan said. They then burst into applause.

Turkish leaders have stressed that an offensive against the rebels of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party, or PKK, would not immediately follow the expected authorization.

At a White House news conference, Bush also repeated calls for the Democratic-controlled Congress to drop plans for a resolution labeling as genocide the World War I-era killing of up to 1.5 million Armenians in the final years of the Ottoman Empire.

Noting the number of domestic bills pending before Congress, he said: “One thing Congress should not be doing is sorting out the historical record of the Ottoman Empire.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21339796

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RE: Turkey approves incursion - 10/17/2007 5:03:30 PM

Politesub53

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As far as i know they have entered Iraq a couple of times since 1991... i guess the response from the allies may depend on the magnitude of the actions.

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RE: Turkey approves incursion - 10/17/2007 5:12:07 PM

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Yes. And, according to the article, they have troops there now.

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RE: Turkey approves incursion - 10/17/2007 5:56:37 PM

luckydog1

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I think this is a statement by the Turks that they expect us to clamp down harder on the KWP. Which seems rather reasonable.

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RE: Turkey approves incursion - 10/17/2007 6:04:46 PM

cyberdude611

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This kind of thing in that region has been going on well before any of us were alive. It's not going to end. You got a lot of different groups in that area who very much hate each other with a passion. And this will continue to go on and on and on.... The Soviets had a hell of a time keeping that area under control and most of the time they couldn't....

It's not being caused by anyone. It is just these people that live that area don't like each other, don't get along, and if they could, they'd love to wipe each other out (in fact Turkey tried to do that during WW1). And the biggest mistake we can make is to get in the middle of that mess.

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RE: Turkey approves incursion - 10/17/2007 6:10:18 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

I think this is a statement by the Turks that they expect us to clamp down harder on the KWP. Which seems rather reasonable.

I agree. A way of saying, "keep these pricks out of our yard, or we will".

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RE: Turkey approves incursion - 10/17/2007 6:12:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

This kind of thing in that region has been going on well before any of us were alive. It's not going to end. You got a lot of different groups in that area who very much hate each other with a passion. And this will continue to go on and on and on.... The Soviets had a hell of a time keeping that area under control and most of the time they couldn't....

It's not being caused by anyone. It is just these people that live that area don't like each other, don't get along, and if they could, they'd love to wipe each other out (in fact Turkey tried to do that during WW1). And the biggest mistake we can make is to get in the middle of that mess.

Yes, we're in enough messes as it is lol. But, I don't know that we can totally ignore things over there, either..... but exerting diplomatic/economic pressure should go a long way into calming things down somewhat. I hope.

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RE: Turkey approves incursion - 10/17/2007 7:22:20 PM

luckydog1

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As opposed to trying to piss them off by bringing up the Policies of the Ottoman Empire, ala the Democratic leadership?

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RE: Turkey approves incursion - 10/17/2007 9:41:08 PM

farglebargle

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Doesn't Bush, since he's occupying Iraq, need to defend the Iraqi People from the Invading Turks?

Bush is so fucking stupid.

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RE: Turkey approves incursion - 10/17/2007 9:42:40 PM

SimplyMichael

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Lucky,

You tell me which you think pisses Turkey off more, congress considering a proclamation or Bush harboring terrorists in Iraq?

My guess is it ain't the proclamation, yours?

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RE: Turkey approves incursion - 10/17/2007 9:44:46 PM

farglebargle

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Seems to me that the Turks are pissed off enough with Bush tacitly or explicitly recognizing the existance of anything even resembling a Sovereign Kurdish State.

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RE: Turkey approves incursion - 10/18/2007 12:20:58 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Seems to me that the Turks are pissed off enough with Bush tacitly or explicitly recognizing the existance of anything even resembling a Sovereign Kurdish State.

Turkey is also pissed off with the US because the senate(or congress) has been debating the Armenian genocide. A very sensitive point with Turkey. Add the Kurds to the mix and Turkey is really into thinking fuck what the US wants, this relationship is too much of a one way street.

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RE: Turkey approves incursion - 10/18/2007 12:46:12 AM

eyeh8f8

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That's why in Government you need to take cation with this stuff. I never have been a fan of BUsh but he does have some valid points. Let's face until something is setup that works for Iraq. Prblem is that the Middle East is way different than the rest of us. And no not the people who are Middle Easterns that live and contribute to our society. The place is a mess. The funny thing is that Israel has been one country that I have my own thoughts about. They make everything about religion and how they were born with that right. Umm so where is the logic in that? "Oh we hate being persicuted but we have a born right as a chosen people". People say that Palestine shouldn't even exist and they have no rights to be a country. Fact is that since the tstart we as humans have wanted to hav more land or whatever and it is no diffeerent now. Sure the complex has changed and we all agee that invading countires to gain more power and land is not so great but we still do things like that. The fact that people would say that Israelies and Jews are "The Chosen People" makes me want to compare the chosen people to the master race. Really, that is is probalbly why they have had so much problems, and I am not trying to poke fun at them but saying you are chosen relates to you being above somebody and sorry but the thought that if you beieve in a god does not make you better than anybody. It says something about you but it doesn't say you are "Chosen"

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RE: Turkey approves incursion - 10/18/2007 3:47:20 AM

LadyEllen

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So then, to deter the US from acknowledging the Armenian genocide, the Turks intend to carry out another on the Kurds?

Or is it that to show the world that in fact theyre not the sort of people who do such things, the Turks intend to demonstrate their peaceful nature by slaughtering another of their enemies?

You know? I thought it was a serious matter to deny the holocaust, so it might be similarly serious to deny what happened to the Armenians.

Ah! But - my mistake! Armenians (and Kurds for that matter) arent real people, are they?

E

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RE: Turkey approves incursion - 10/18/2007 4:20:00 AM

seeksfemslave

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The Kurds have been systematically attacking parts of Turkey for a long long time.
Not sure of the exact details, something to do with uniting Northern Iraq and parts of Turkey in to one nation.

Whatever is going to happen the Turks dont mess about.
Remember when they invaded Cyprus with a Paratroop attack.
I'm relying on my memory but I am fairly sure it was them.
Somebody did it.

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RE: Turkey approves incursion - 10/18/2007 4:45:39 AM

LadyEllen

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yes Seeks, early 70s I think, Turkey invaded and took northern Cyprus to come to the aid of ethnic Turks who were getting a raw deal from the majority ethnic Greeks.

funny how the PKK are then seen as these terribly bad people for incursions into Turkey which are interventions on behalf of ethnic Kurds in Turkey, getting a raw deal from the majority ethnic Turks.

the only difference is that the raw deal in the Cyprus case was nothing like the raw deal for Kurds in Turkey, who are treated as subhumans rather than second class humans.

E

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RE: Turkey approves incursion - 10/18/2007 10:34:41 AM

pahunkboy

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W-E-L-L.

^snotty comment^ wouldnt you think a country can mind its OWN business! "foot stomp" <- sarcasm

How rude!

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RE: Turkey approves incursion - 10/18/2007 10:58:19 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

The Kurds have been systematically attacking parts of Turkey for a long long time.
Not sure of the exact details, something to do with uniting Northern Iraq and parts of Turkey in to one nation.

Whatever is going to happen the Turks dont mess about.
Remember when they invaded Cyprus with a Paratroop attack.
I'm relying on my memory but I am fairly sure it was them.
Somebody did it.

If our ancestors weren't so racist and saw the Kurds as a potential problem, the world wouldn't have a Kurd problem now because we would have given them their own country instead of denying them and carving up their homeland and giving their territory to several other peoples.

Turkey invaded Cyprus because the Greek Cypriots tried to take over in a coup. I'm baffled as to why the Turks now seem the guilty party rather than the Greeks but that's what you get when politics writes history rather than historians.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 10/18/2007 11:00:32 AM >

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RE: Turkey approves incursion - 10/18/2007 11:28:34 AM

luckydog1

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"Seems to me that the Turks are pissed off enough with Bush tacitly or explicitly recognizing the existance of anything even resembling a Sovereign Kurdish State."

Farg that is the Biden plan being pushed by several Democratic Candidates. Bush is continually refusing to budge from his goal of a FEDERALIZED, which 100% precludes recognizing any form of Soverign Kurdistan.

I think the attempt to create a semi Autonomous Kurdish region that is part of a Fedrealized Iraq is a good idea. It is by far the Best Deal the Kurds have been given in a very long time. IF it works, it could serve as an example to Turkey (Which is having issues in joining the EU, and oppressing Kurds seems to be a problem with that larger Goal) and Iran. To attempt to pin the Plight of the Kurds on Bush is just nonsense. He is doing far more for them than any Leader in the EU or US has ever done.

Lady Ellen your point is nonsense. Turkey is not committing Genocide on the Kurds (in Turkey or in Iraq). The resolution they passed does not call for Genocide on the Kurds. Condemning the Genocide from 70-80 years ago, serves no purpose now, no one is denying it. Anymore than holding the Nazi Genocide against the Modern German state would.
Simply micheal your question is BS, Bush is not harboring the KWP. The Kurd issue has been happening for a very long time and is nothing new. Congress trying to hurt thier image as they attempt to join the EU and develop is new. It is the US taking a new track in it's dealings with a long term Ally of great strategic importance. But you know all this.

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RE: Turkey approves incursion - 10/18/2007 11:32:33 AM

luckydog1

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"Doesn't Bush, since he's occupying Iraq, need to defend the Iraqi People from the Invading Turks? Farg but the Turks are not invading, they already have troops in iraq with permision of the Iraqi Gov and The Coalition. They passed a resolution, to send a signal.

Bush is so fucking stupid. "You are the one mis stating basic facts and pretending an invasion is occuring when there is not one, perhaps you should look in the mirror

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