Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Humiliated or Humbled


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Humiliated or Humbled Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 9:35:04 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		In the context of BDSM, whether it is considered ‘play’ or within a D/s, M/s dynamic, humiliation trips my trigger.  I love wallowing in the figurative slime and mud at the dominant’s bidding.
The conundrum for me has always been that humiliation does not make me feel degraded or debased.  It does just the opposite; I feel exalted and exultant.
 
How then can it possibly be humiliation?
 
I would add two caveats here.
For one, sometimes my body expresses signs of embarrassment; I feel the hot flush rising in my face, I hyperventilate, my heart pounds with anxiety.  But my mind and my inner-most being soars and sings!
Second, I am very aware that there are things that would debase me beyond tolerance.  Luckily I have not been faced with that.
 
What then should I name it if it isn’t humiliation?
 
I have considered the word humble.  My thesaurus lists, among others, four words that can be used to replace it:  subservient, deferential, respectful, and the one I like most, obliging.  All of the words in this paragraph are, at least in my definition, base-line expectations for a submissive.  So, yeah, I’m thinking humbled is the word I’m looking for.  It chills me and thrills me to show the dominant how ‘low I will go’ to oblige him in his (our?) perverse desires.  
Opposite feelings of pride and humility experienced at the same moment remains a dichotomy.  I’m not sure that I understand it myself and I am unable to adequately explain it to anyone else.  But humbled seems to be a slightly better description than humiliated. At the very least it sits a little more comfortably in my brain.
 
Is it simply semantics or does humble explain it better?
Have any of you thought a different descriptor is needed?

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 9:58:03 AM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

In the context of BDSM, whether it is considered ‘play’ or within a D/s, M/s dynamic, humiliation trips my trigger.  I love wallowing in the figurative slime and mud at the dominant’s bidding.
The conundrum for me has always been that humiliation does not make me feel degraded or debased.  It does just the opposite; I feel exalted and exultant.
 
How then can it possibly be humiliation?
 
I would add two caveats here.
For one, sometimes my body expresses signs of embarrassment; I feel the hot flush rising in my face, I hyperventilate, my heart pounds with anxiety.  But my mind and my inner-most being soars and sings!
Second, I am very aware that there are things that would debase me beyond tolerance.  Luckily I have not been faced with that.
 
What then should I name it if it isn’t humiliation?
 
I have considered the word humble.  My thesaurus lists, among others, four words that can be used to replace it:  subservient, deferential, respectful, and the one I like most, obliging.  All of the words in this paragraph are, at least in my definition, base-line expectations for a submissive.  So, yeah, I’m thinking humbled is the word I’m looking for.  It chills me and thrills me to show the dominant how ‘low I will go’ to oblige him in his (our?) perverse desires.  
Opposite feelings of pride and humility experienced at the same moment remains a dichotomy.  I’m not sure that I understand it myself and I am unable to adequately explain it to anyone else.  But humbled seems to be a slightly better description than humiliated. At the very least it sits a little more comfortably in my brain.
 
Is it simply semantics or does humble explain it better?
Have any of you thought a different descriptor is needed?


If humiliation made you feel degraded or debased then it wouldn't be humiliation it would be degredation.  Embarassed i see more as something that happens to someone that is accidental and would not want to be repeated.  Humiliation are things that occur with intent, not by accident.   i see being humble as something only you can do for yourself.  Actions of others can make you feel humbled, but they can't make you feel humbled. 

i think for subs humiliation is a hot button because it magnifies the dominance like nothing else will, it's very intimate and special.  i would bet many people will play with others and let those not close to them whip them, tie them up etc in the name of scening, but how many will indulge in humiliation play with casual partners?  i don't suspect many. 

Here are 4 definitions of humiliation:
1. state of disgrace or loss of self-respect
2. strong feelings of embarrassment
3. an instance in which you are caused to lose your prestige or self-respect.
4.depriving one of self-esteem

Definitions for humble:

1. not proud or arrogant; modest.
2. having a feeling of insignificance, inferiority, subservience.
3. low in rank, importance, status, quality.
4. courteously respectful.
5. to lower in condition, importance, or dignity.
6. to destroy the independence, power, or will of.
7. to make meek.
8. Showing deferential or submissive respect.



_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 10:19:05 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		to see my opinions on the subject please read the thread i started here, http://www.collarchat.com/m_1297234/mpage_1/tm.htm there is just too much to repost...

well, i can repost this...heres my definitions...

"i make a distinction between degredation and humiliation...these are my definitions only, after years of developing them so, take them for what you will...humiliation is by definition to be made humble and humble means to not feel better or more important than others so basically humiliation is being made to feel my place...and after all that degredation is being made to feel less than my place..."


_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 10:28:08 AM   
SubJordanTyler


Posts: 268
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline 		For me, probably the most humilating thing that I can have done to me is being pissed on by multiple people in front of others.  I think most people would agree that fits the definition of humilation mentioned above - especially #2 and #3.  It's certainly embarassing and gives you a loss of prestige and self-respect to sit there and let people stand over me and urinate all over me.  Ending up soaked with piss would qualify for that.

But at the same time, it is something that makes me feel excited.  I love that part of it and love "wallowing in the slime and mud" like that.  So I really don't know how to describe it.  Maybe it's both humilating and humbling.  I wonder though - as long as you enjoy it, does it really matter what you call it??

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 10:30:11 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

 Here are 4 definitions of humiliation:
1. state of disgrace or loss of self-respect
2. strong feelings of embarrassment
3. an instance in which you are caused to lose your prestige or self-respect.
4.depriving one of self-esteem   


And these definitions are exactly why I am searching for another word.  In humiliatiion play I am not disgraced, I don't lose my self-respect, I do not feel strongly embarrassed, and I am not deprived of my self-esteem. 

quote:

  Actions of others can make you feel humbled, but they can't make you feel humbled. 


Would you mind clarifying this sentence?  Your emphasis on the repeated words only jumbles what you are trying to tell me.

And I do agree it is more intimate than some other activities.

Thanks Velvettears for your resonse!

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 10:40:41 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		I hadn't read the  previous thread, Chellekitty, so thanks for sharing it here. And here I thought I might have had an original thought with the word humble!  I struggle with the fact that degradation and humiliation are used to define each other.  I see your point in the 2 examplels you gave but for me neither case would make me feel badly.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 10:44:14 AM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

  Actions of others can make you feel humbled, but they can't make you feel humbled. 


Would you mind clarifying this sentence?  Your emphasis on the repeated words only jumbles what you are trying to tell me.

And I do agree it is more intimate than some other activities.

Thanks Velvettears for your resonse!


i can look at a person and see qualities or talents and feel humbled by them. The person themselves (who posess the qualities and talents) cannot instill this humbleness i feel into me, they have no need to - the feeling is brough about from within. You cannot make a person feel humble. 


_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 10:47:28 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		no problem, and i had an experience after i posted that that completely debunked that thought pattern...i hooked up with a Dom at a convention, the first night of the convention....and we did an intense psychological scene in his hotel room....and if he hadn't been so amazing i probably would have lost it....because the things he said, if they had been from anyone else, would have been degrading to the point of debasement...but from him they were just humiliating and incredibly fucking hot...and it opend my eyes a LOT...it was a life changing experience, and i am not exagerating


_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 10:47:39 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

 But at the same time, it is something that makes me feel excited.  I love that part of it and love "wallowing in the slime and mud" like that.  So I really don't know how to describe it.  Maybe it's both humilating and humbling.  I wonder though - as long as you enjoy it, does it really matter what you call it??


Maybe it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, SubJordanTyler, but it is something I ponder frequently because the word just doesn't fit for me.
Maybe my struggle is more the opposing feelings rather than the definition.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to SubJordanTyler)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 10:52:24 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

 i can look at a person and see qualities or talents and feel humbled by them. The person themselves (who posess the qualities and talents) cannot instill this humbleness i feel into me, they have no need to - the feeling is brough about from within. You cannot make a person feel humble.  



THAnk-you that helps!  I will think about this and get back to you.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 10:54:35 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

 incredibly fucking hot...and it opend my eyes a LOT...it was a life changing experience, and i am not exagerating 


~grins~  I know the feeling!

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 10:56:22 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		I don't think something has to feel shitty in order to qualify as humiliation.  If humiliation in a certain context makes you feel good, then humiliation makes you feel good.  But it's still humiliation, not something else.

I agree that the word humble sounds a little less caustic, but it would appear that it's basically synonymous with the word humiliate. 

Just my take on it.

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 11:01:16 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

I don't think something has to feel shitty in order to qualify as humiliation.  If humiliation in a certain context makes you feel good, then humiliation makes you feel good.  But it's still humiliation, not something else.

I agree that the word humble sounds a little less caustic, but it would appear that it's basically synonymous with the word humiliate. 

Just my take on it.

I appreciate your take on it MarieToo, I wanna know what others think.  Thanks!

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 11:45:32 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		While you do not feel any of the things associated with "humiliation", you forget that those are definitions of "regular" humiliation.  Sexual humiliation is taking something that would do those things to a "normal" person and creating sexual excitement, expansion of the soul, and stimulation of the mind with them.

Call a "normal" person a slut and they may not only feel humiliated, they may feel as if you are trying to minimize them and degrade them.  You may create anger.

Even with some submissives, you can call them a slut and they react in the same manner as many "normal" people.

Ahhhhhhhhh but for some...they feel that joy within their heart and soul, they feel their body respond to what their mind is processing, they get wet and drippy or hard and excited and they crave more. Their dominants use it to enhance the submissive knowing what it does to her, to enhance the D/s dynamic, to enhance the BDSM scene, or both and tt makes the submissive feel even more submissive to the dominant using it properly..  These are all the reasons that sexual humiliation is beautiful for me.  I love to use it.  Love to play with it.

Hope this viewpoint helps.


(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 11:49:59 AM   
Cyntilating


Posts: 581
Joined: 6/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

 But at the same time, it is something that makes me feel excited.  I love that part of it and love "wallowing in the slime and mud" like that.  So I really don't know how to describe it.  Maybe it's both humilating and humbling.  I wonder though - as long as you enjoy it, does it really matter what you call it??


Maybe it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, SubJordanTyler, but it is something I ponder frequently because the word just doesn't fit for me.
Maybe my struggle is more the opposing feelings rather than the definition.


Hi Catize,
  great topic!
....and I don't know what to tell you to call it either, but I certainly can relate to the feeling you describe. 
and maybe, as you say, in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter what its "called or named" .
 
I have said before when talking about "what is humilating?" that >>it's individual in perspective..
  One persons humiliation is another persons expression of deep devotion or servitude/submission.
 
I can name a number of things, that once-upon-a-time, I would have called humilating and would never imagined myself doing or having done to me. Now, they do not feel humiliating, they come from a very strong place in me of serving and devotion.  I love feeling that way because its an expression of a part of myself that "words" cannot express.  How to "tell " that someone exactly what you would do or all you would give ?  sometimes the need to express that just cannot be found in words...words feel inadequate..showing is all we can do sometimes....and so we do...show deeply and uniquely.  And the more that is asked/demanded/commanded of me, the more I am able to convey what is in my heart and my deepest feelings. 

So perhaps there is no word/term to be found  : )
just a feeling and a way to show them.
 
The thesaurus has available other words that are the same as humiliating, BUT  it no longer feels humiliating, the feeling is different. 
Like trying to find another term for "sour" ...when you no longer taste it as sour but rather sweet> then the other synonomous terms no longer are valid.
 
I know these things He does with/or to no one else.  I know that these things I do not do for/with anyone else.  They are something that is part of Us.  Which is why I think they have transformed from humiliating acts into something empowering.
 
Do you ever feel the need to beg to be used?  used up? completely utilized?    I do.   We don't call it humiliation, but he knows what I mean when I beg to be used..  He knows what I really want to feel is that i am His.
  I always know and trust I am His...but sometimes I need to feel my place and His possession of me.  These " acts" ( once called humilating)  do that.
and so perhaps HUMBLE is close.
according to the definitions Velvet and Chellekitty talked about ... Humble   seems to best describe it..but, not really lol
 
Definitions for humble:

1. not proud or arrogant; modest. except that I DO feel proud
2. having a feeling of insignificance, inferiority, subservience. But I dont feel insignificant, I feel very desired and valued!
3. low in rank, importance, status, quality. lower in rank, status yes. his importance and will is primary, yes.
4. courteously respectful. yes
5. to lower in condition, importance, or dignity. I am in the most undignifyed manner or place yet HE only sees me as beautiful, strong, and full of grace and dignity.  I think this is really the power of this humbling action/act. 
6. to destroy the independence, power, or will of. absolutely the opposite! empowered and not destroyed in any way
7. to make meek. yes  and obedient and calm..
8. Showing deferential or submissive respect. yes


sorry this was so lengthy..good topic Catize : ) and I really like what you wrote and shared.
 
edited : spelling of a couple words.

< Message edited by Cyntilating -- 10/20/2007 11:55:03 AM >

_____________________________

Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 11:57:00 AM   
Tigrita


Posts: 484
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		I agree that humiliation play makes me feel almost overwhelmingly empowered in many ways.  Sometimes it is durring, or sometimes not until after, depending on the type and intensity of humiliation.  Being sexually objectified and called all those deliciously bad names and being made to picture what other 'respectable' people would think of me...  makes me feel downright giddy, I guess because I'm embracing my dark, naughty self and loving who I am rather than actually feeling ashamed of it.  It can get more intense to the point where I really do get into a humbled/humilliated, even degraded headspace, but after coming out of it I feel empowered because it kind of conquers self-esteem issues of old.  Knowing that I can go there and come back and still have value and strength in myself is the ultimate conquest of those issues. 

So, I don't have any additional definitions or new words, but thougt I'd share that you're not alone in the way you enjoy humiliation play.

_____________________________

~ Tigrita

There is no right path, only the path you take.

Success is making life happen, versus just letting life happen to you.

"Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't enjoy them." - Charlotte

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 1:18:20 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

  While you do not feel any of the things associated with "humiliation", you forget that those are definitions of "regular" humiliation.  


The light is beginning to dawn for me.

quote:

  Ahhhhhhhhh but for some...they feel that joy within their heart and soul, they feel their body respond to what their mind is processing, they get wet and drippy or hard and excited and they crave more. Their dominants use it to enhance the submissive knowing what it does to her, to enhance the D/s dynamic, to enhance the BDSM scene, or both and tt makes the submissive feel even more submissive to the dominant using it properly..  These are all the reasons that sexual humiliation is beautiful for me.  I love to use it.  Love to play with it.


I had never considered that it is like masochism for the psyche; flogging the inner person rather than the physical part of me.  Wonderfully stated and I appreciate your view from the dominant side.

quote:

  Hope this viewpoint helps.


It helped a lot, thank you very much!

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 1:25:33 PM   
arayofsunshine55


Posts: 545
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: San Francisco, CA
Status: offline 		The closest I get is embarassment.  Many of the triggers would be humiliating to others.  But I don't seem to do humble either.  Too arrogant.  Thank god humility isn't one of his kinks.

_____________________________

Sunshine

Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 1:29:30 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

 How to "tell " that someone exactly what you would do or all you would give ?  sometimes the need to express that just cannot be found in words...words feel inadequate..showing is all we can do sometimes....and so we do...show deeply and uniquely.  And the more that is asked/demanded/commanded of me, the more I am able to convey what is in my heart and my deepest feelings. 

So perhaps there is no word/term to be found  : )
just a feeling and a way to show them.  


Cyntilating, thank you for this, especially 'just a feeling and a way to show them'
Your post along with Creative Dominant's have explained it in ways I hadn't been able to think of before.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to Cyntilating)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 1:29:53 PM   
tricia


Posts: 231
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I've also used the word humbled to express what most view as humiliation.  I see it as a reminder of my place within my relationship. 
 
After reading Velvetears definition - i definitely think the world humble works best for me.

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Humiliated or Humbled Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094