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RE: Dumbledore's Secret (Spoiler) - 10/23/2007 8:15:48 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

"Am I blue?". Basically in the story from which the book takes it's title, a teenage boy (who isn't sure of his sexuality but gets beaten up by another boy who thinks he is gay) makes a wish that everyone who was gay would turn blue so that everyone in the world had to deal with the fact that some of the people they love, work with, and are friends with are gay. Pretty good book.


Sounds great; I'll have to look for it. Thanks for the tip, AS!

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RE: Dumbledore's Secret (Spoiler) - 10/23/2007 9:20:14 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

The whole thing reminds me a bit of a story in the book "Am I blue?". Basically in the story from which the book takes it's title, a teenage boy (who isn't sure of his sexuality but gets beaten up by another boy who thinks he is gay) makes a wish that everyone who was gay would turn blue so that everyone in the world had to deal with the fact that some of the people they love, work with, and are friends with are gay. Pretty good book.

Maybe I'm nuts but I actually kinda like that she waited until now, when the character and the series is so beloved. I don't think it belonged in the books because - from my understanding - the character never did anything sexual. There wouldn't have been a need to point out that he was heterosexual, so why point out that he was homosexual? She was asked a question and she answered it.

Very cool book.  WhenI lived in Ireland, the gay group there had an annual event they called "Blue Jean Day" where basically they'd post fliers everywhere saying that everyone wearing blue jeans that day supported gay rights.  Of course they'd never announce which day it would be beforehand.

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RE: Dumbledore's Secret (Spoiler) - 10/23/2007 11:47:59 PM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		Ah,.........people, I hate to break this to you but "Harry Potter" is a work of fiction.
All the people in the movie were actors.
There is no "Dumbledor".

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RE: Dumbledore's Secret (Spoiler) - 10/24/2007 12:05:00 AM   
Neala


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Status: offline 		I just kind of smiled at the idea personally. I never pictured him as gay, but it wasn't that big of a shock.

As far as publicity....J.K Rowling has never struck me as the type to seek after it in such a manner. Then again, I've been before.

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RE: Dumbledore's Secret (Spoiler) - 10/24/2007 9:06:18 AM   
Crush


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LightHeartedMaam

When I heard this, my initial reaction was "who gives a rat's ass and why should we even care"? B F D



Agreed...though do we now we have to wonder about his "magic wand" .....

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RE: Dumbledore's Secret (Spoiler) - 10/24/2007 9:20:13 AM   
aidan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Ah,.........people, I hate to break this to you but "Harry Potter" is a work of fiction.
All the people in the movie were actors.
There is no "Dumbledor".

Enjoy your textbooks!

Anyway...

While it's irrelevant (somewhat) that Dumbledore is gay, that fact that he loved is not.

The Harry Potter series is, in her words, "a prolonged argument for tolerance" and the unifying ability of love in all its forms (fraternal, sibling, parental, romantic). For Dumbledore to love is very important, because how can he fight for it so powerfuly if he's not touched by it?

Who Dumbledore loves is also important, but not in the sense that you might think. The object of Dumbledore's love was his friend Grindlewald, who in many ways stood as an opposite to him (whereas Voldemort stands as the opposite of Harry). Grindelwald's agenda of bigotry and subjugation, even if under benign auspices, goes against everything that Dumbledore believes. Blinded by anger over what was done to his sister and his love for the only man who seems to understand him, Dumbledore ignores this for as long as he can. In the end, it's a story of tragic love. Again, from Rowling herself:
quote:

Dumbledore fell in love with Grindelwald, and that that added to his horror when Grindelwald showed himself to be what he was. To an extent, do we say it excused Dumbledore a little more because falling in love can blind us to an extend, but he met someone as brilliant as he was, and rather like Bellatrix he was very drawn to this brilliant person, and horribly, terribly let down by him.

Imagine how supremely disappointed, how hurt, how broken-hearted Dumbledore must have felt when he comes to realize the man he loves might be a monster. He goes on then to dedicate the rest of his life to repenting for his mistakes, for Grindelwald and his sister.

It's the relationship between these two characters that provides Dumbledore's motivation throughout the series. Now, why wasn't it made explicit that his was a romantic relationship with Grindelwald? Well, my question to that is: how could she do it? How could Dumbledore's past romance have been shoehorned into the series without it seeming gratuitous? The only logical thing I can think of is Rita Skeeter "outing" him after death, and that provides some nasty subtext that it was "wrong". The only reason it came out now is because somebody asked, and she gave the honest answer. Going back and reading the relevant chapters, you can see the subtext of the romance pretty well.

The fact that he loved: important. The fact that he was gay: irrelevant. It's a nice bit of information that gives some deeper insight into a beloved character. Nothing more, really.


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RE: Dumbledore's Secret (Spoiler) - 10/24/2007 9:22:23 AM   
sweetNsmartBBW


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Status: offline 		I suppose Dumbledore is a creation of Rowlings making- and if she made him gay, gay he is.  Watched one of the movies with my pre-teen UM the other night- and there was some giggling and such that had not been there before.  Since we have a close family member that's gay, it's actually opened up an avenue of communication that was neither forced or seemed artificial; so it was a positive spin for us.  I'd like to think that was her motivation, and not marketing- but in the end, suppose it does not really matter at all to the series itself.

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RE: Dumbledore's Secret (Spoiler) - 10/24/2007 10:01:07 AM   
philosophy


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...as Popeye points out thisis just a fictional character. However it is a fictional character in a series with an enormous readership. If this 'revelation' is at all useful it is only inasmuch as it may make one or two homophobes rethink their position. Oh, and i'm sure there will be the odd Eng. Lit. paper written on the subject. Which, in turn, may challenge the odd educational establishment to examine any lingering homophobic tendencies there.

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RE: Dumbledore's Secret (Spoiler) - 10/24/2007 8:49:19 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

The fact that he was gay: irrelevant.


Perhaps because I'm gay myself, I tend to disagree.

I think Dumbledore's gayness may well have been the taproot of the compassion that enabled him, again and again, to reach out to outcasts: the half-giant Hagrid, the werewolf Lupin, and his constant championing of Muggles.

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RE: Dumbledore's Secret (Spoiler) - 10/24/2007 8:52:11 PM   
NakedOnMyChain


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Status: offline 		It doesn't matter one way or the other to me.  But considering I always saw him as Ian McKellen in my head, gay probably fits.  I honestly always thought of Dumbledore as fairly asexual.

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RE: Dumbledore's Secret (Spoiler) - 10/24/2007 8:54:33 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

I honestly always thought of Dumbledore as fairly asexual.


As an old man, I did too. But I did think, while reading about him and Grindelwald, how cool it would be if they were a pair. At the time, I figured I was just projecting!

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RE: Dumbledore's Secret (Spoiler) - 10/24/2007 8:56:46 PM   
NakedOnMyChain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

I honestly always thought of Dumbledore as fairly asexual.


As an old man, I did too. But I did think, while reading about him and Grindelwald, how cool it would be if they were a pair. At the time, I figured I was just projecting!


That's true.  I didn't take account when he was younger.  In that case, I think I agree with you, although I tore through the book so fast I didn't give it much thought at the time.  LOL.  But I believe that I agree.

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RE: Dumbledore's Secret (Spoiler) - 10/24/2007 8:58:57 PM   
Kana


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RE: Dumbledore's Secret (Spoiler) - 10/24/2007 9:20:31 PM   
Marc2b


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Status: offline 		I can't say that I saw this coming but I don't find it surprising either.  It kind of fits his charectar.  I think J.R. did this to nail down the theme of the whole series - tolerance. 

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RE: Dumbledore's Secret (Spoiler) - 10/24/2007 11:46:41 PM   
jblack


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Status: offline 		As Marc2b points out, the entire series is about tolerance, and dcnovice's suggestion that Dumbledore's compassion towards others may stem from his own understanding of prejudice makes a lot of sense. I would say that aiden's point about love is critical as well. That Dumbledore had experienced the power of love firsthand might have underlined his respect for love, especially because his feelings were unrequited. My sense is that Dumbledore knew that, while it is important to love wisely, it's more important to love at all; I would imagine he learned that from his own heartbreak over Gellart Grindelwald. In my mind, Dumbledore's response to his broken heart is typical of his character: he did not become bitter; instead, he embraced his broken heart, knowing that a broken heart is better than no heart at all.

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RE: Dumbledore's Secret (Spoiler) - 10/24/2007 11:59:52 PM   
aidan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

The fact that he was gay: irrelevant.


Perhaps because I'm gay myself, I tend to disagree.

I think Dumbledore's gayness may well have been the taproot of the compassion that enabled him, again and again, to reach out to outcasts: the half-giant Hagrid, the werewolf Lupin, and his constant championing of Muggles.

Actually, I can see that. One can imagine that homosexuality would be looked down upon even more in the wizarding Pure Blood community, as it's impossible to sire new wizards or continue a Pure bloodline. That'd stick in the craw of the Malfoys and Voldemorts of the world.

Unless, of course, there's some kind of freaky-deaky magical artificial insemination process. *insert wand joke here*


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RE: Dumbledore's Secret (Spoiler) - 10/25/2007 7:21:07 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

especially because his feelings were unrequited.


Do you think they were unrequited? I was kind of enjoying the idea of Dumbledore and Grindelwald's torrid summer together!

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RE: Dumbledore's Secret (Spoiler) - 10/25/2007 7:22:09 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

since it never came up in the stories its pretty much irrelevant.


I agree with this sentiment

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RE: Dumbledore's Secret (Spoiler) - 10/26/2007 9:29:40 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

since it never came up in the stories its pretty much irrelevant.


I agree with this sentiment


I wonder, though, if it may have come up, unnamed, in the stories more than we realized. Good excuse to reread them, anyway.

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RE: Dumbledore's Secret (Spoiler) - 10/26/2007 10:10:53 PM   
slaverosebeauty


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quote:

ORIGINAL: aidan
Actually, I can see that. One can imagine that homosexuality would be looked down upon even more in the wizarding Pure Blood community, as it's impossible to sire new wizards or continue a Pure bloodline. That'd stick in the craw of the Malfoys and Voldemorts of the world.


Not like Lucious Malfoy needed ANOTHER reason to hate Dumbledore; look at how some of the 'holier than thou' pure-bloods acted in Book 7, it was disgusting; the Malfoys' were in heaven with being 'important;'  I can almost see Rita [the pest reporter]  'breaking' that story all over the 'Daily Prophet' and enjoying every moment of it, and discrediting Dumbledor.
 
It wasn't exactly a secret that Griswald and Dumbledor fought or that their was 'something' there.  Rowling, just never went into much detail; it wasn't neccessary to the story, she is just filling in one of the gaps.
 
It might be fiction, but its great fiction; how many other books can touch more than one generation and get so many kids interested in reading to the point where they were waiting at a BOOKSTORE until midnight to get a new book?!  It's never happened before.

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