RE: Semantics and the One True Way...

RE: Semantics and the One True Way... (Full Version)

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LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Semantics and the One True Way... (10/23/2007 9:32:57 PM)
it kinda goes back to this Value Respect morals basic informational structure what is good what is bad give take maso sadist also incorporates emotionals logical structrue what is happiness what is sadness social structure education work goals achivements aquired friends wealth what makes us tick is only something that each person can discover for themselves. WHile there will be things help us on that journey of life the universe and everything. we make the choices. cause and effect

laurell3 -> RE: Semantics and the One True Way... (10/24/2007 4:10:16 AM)
Honestly, although I've been wading through the muck that is the lifestyle (yeah yeah I'm cynical at the moment for various reasons unrelated to this thread) for about a decade now, I can't say that I still totally know myself in the arena. Things change and especially based on who you are with. If I can't say what I truly find acceptable or unacceptable about me who else can ever say that about me? There are many times I look at a post and think that cannot possibly work or be true, but whatever, pixels are not real life. I try hard to stay out of the fray of the inane, but at times can't keep myself from pointing out the absurd. The one exception is the "death is not a hard limit" line of thinking, which I was always rather respond to in a very alarmed and cynical fashion. This is more concern based than any type of criticism to "no-limits" players, however.

sweetNsmartBBW -> RE: Semantics and the One True Way... (10/24/2007 5:40:08 AM)
"I wonder why the OP made the post she did? Honestly lately I think she's been one of the more blatant posters of trying to say absolutes and push their own way on others". Hi LA: I posted it because I was curious. I posted it because the threads I have been following have had me thinking a lot about tolerance and absolutes. About the "why" of certain attitudes and responses... I'm not exactly sure where I have ever tried to say anything of an absolute nature in other posts- or pushed "my way" on anyone else. If that IS the case, I certainly want to know about it so that I can change my writing style to better convey what I'm trying to get across without the negative connotations. I'd invite You (or anyone with constructive criticism) to write me on the other side at any time. I enjoy Your posts, and generally find that You offer a wealth of information. I don't recall a time when I have ever had anything but respect for what You had to say- even if we had differing viewpoints- so, I'd certainly welcome Your comments. That said- yes, I have opinions- we all do...but I'm very much of the "you do your thing, I'll do mine" school. If a person asks a question, or advice, I certainly may chime in; and if I do so from a point of view that differs from yours- or someone elses- it seems to make perfect sense. Since I am not you, or someone else. I can only speak from what I know and have experienced. Nor am I here to win popularity contests- like Popeye, I calls 'em likes I sees 'em... To anyone that feels I have "pushed" my views on you- in any post- anywhere, at anytime- I apologize. Certainly not my intent in any post I have ever made here. I'm here to contribute, to learn, to grow...not to cause trouble or be overbearing. Again, if that's not how my posts are being percieved, please let me know... Hope that answers why I started this thread... Thanks, sNs

Zarius -> RE: Semantics and the One True Way... (10/24/2007 8:15:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bipolarber Rover's right. You've created a word paradox. All you can really say is, "I've found the way that works for me." There are as many different "ways" as there are individual people. I do agree with you on one point, however, I do get tired of the many, many folk on here who seem to think their "philosophy" is inately superior to everyone else. It's known in some circles as MKIOKYIN. "My Kink Is OK, Yours Is Not." If you want to see a great example of it, click on over to the Gorean section and read how they slam folks who are BDSM. Greetings bipolarber The slamming going on is due to being baited by people who come over to the gorean side and post inflaming topics. Should I do this here, I would expect to get slammed as well. Thanks for again showing your intolerance and non-acceptance of others, who dont go out of their way to trouble you personally. Btw, I do practice, the "your kink may not be for me, but I respect your right to practice it" philosophy. I also agree with your post on the "My Kink Is OK, Yours Is Not." It seems very hypocritical of anyone who views life like that, wouldnt you say? I wish you well Zarius

Zarius -> RE: Semantics and the One True Way... (10/24/2007 10:50:48 AM)
Bipolarber (wonders about the name) The reason they jumped her, is gor is pretty strict on protocols, just like Leather. When somone says, they will NOT do something, in the "courtesy" department, of course they will get jumped, espically when the rules are simple. She also disobeyed her master by coming onto the boards. She disobeyed him about refraining from talking about them. (his post not my assumption). So what kind of slave do we have in her? For instance, Goreans have a simple practice, All free men (masters) and all Free Women (non slave/sub) will be addressed as Master or Mistress.... Pretty simple rule to me. ... its our custom.... for somone to say "I am a gorean slave, and I will NOT call anyone master / mistress except my own master" then well you just threw down the gauntlet. Leathermen, and other groups have "protocols" and rules that are to be obeyed when you proclaim being Leather or "other".. Its simple, do it. Now you come on all the time belittling goreans, and wonder why we dont treat you with kid gloves.. Hmmmmm maybe its cause of your attitude with us. Also stop with the 1/2 truths, its unbecomming of you, she didnt want support, she wanted to state what she would and wouldnt do. For the record, Goreans dont push "the one true way" theory you like to spout. We dont come into the BDSM, Poly or any other rooms and say its our way or the highway, we do say, if you are in our rooms, in our topics, and its about gor, you need to know gor, and know what we expect. We do hold ourselves to a standard of conduct, and yes gor is harsh gor is unfair. Thats part of the mantra, and those that follow it like it that way. Gor isnt for you, which is fine, enjoy your practices the way you want. I have no qualms about it. YKMNBMKBIRPYRTPI (Your kink may not be my king but i respect your right to practice it) I dont see your respecitng our right to practice our kink... First on the slamming BDSM, those people that started with the slams were bdsm'ers first, some goreans did chime in and say something to the effect supporting specific individuals, however by and large it was more like 3 to 1 on the slams by bdsmers vs goreans in that thread. Some spoke that they didnt understand why somone would beat somone and that to them it was a freak show. Hey, lets face it, when I pick up a flogger it can be a freak show LMAO after all, "Toes" is a safeword (inside joke about doms/masters stepping on toes). I wished you would stop with the rhetoric on goreans and start stating true facts, in context without 1/2 truths when belittling goreans or any other who doesnt see it your way. From everything I see about you it seems to me its "your way" only though you couch it under the term "fun loving bdsmers who are all tollerant and accepting of others". As an aside bipolarber, some of us want to build bridges between the lifestyles, instead of setting of demo charges to widen the gaps. Thanks Zarius

laurell3 -> RE: Semantics and the One True Way... (10/24/2007 1:45:29 PM)
yesh...Gorean, bdsm, d/s, leather, gay, bi, straight, black, white, female, male, sub, slave, switch, Dom, Domme, Master, owner or martian...it makes no difference how one identifies themselves to say their kink is wrong for THEM is silly.

Rover -> RE: Semantics and the One True Way... (10/24/2007 2:09:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zarius For instance, Goreans have a simple practice, All free men (masters) and all Free Women (non slave/sub) will be addressed as Master or Mistress.... Pretty simple rule to me. ... its our custom.... for somone to say "I am a gorean slave, and I will NOT call anyone master / mistress except my own master" then well you just threw down the gauntlet. Leathermen, and other groups have "protocols" and rules that are to be obeyed when you proclaim being Leather or "other".. Its simple, do it. Not that I care to be dragged into this particular disagreement, but for the sake of accuracy, Leathermen do not have any universal protocols. By your description (not having any first hand knowledge of my own), the use of honorifics in Gor is a universal protocol. Consequently, any comparison between a universal Gorean protocol and a Leather protocol is simply not valid. John

Kirata -> RE: Semantics and the One True Way... (10/24/2007 7:34:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bipolarber Yeah, that's the hell of having an opinion... with reason to back it up. Nobody objects to you having an opinion. But you can't hide behind that when you've been caught running around loose declaring your "opinion" as a fact. quote: ORIGINAL: bipolarber I do get tired of the many, many folk on here who seem to think their "philosophy" is inately superior to everyone else. It's known in some circles as MKIOKYIN. "My Kink Is OK, Yours Is Not." The derisive quotes around the word philosophy tell the tale. Goreans are just a bunch of folks who pretend (or are foolish enough to believe) that their kink is a "philosophy". Now hey, if that's your opinion, so be it. But presenting your personal opinion as an accepted fact upon which conclusions and judgments of others can be drawn is something else. I do not think it reflects poorly on Goreans that they do not care to politely entertain wandering missionaries like you who proclaim for their benefit The Truth of the Matter. Frankly, I don't think your efforts are going over very well here, either, even among people who may have the same opinion. K.

Zarius -> RE: Semantics and the One True Way... (10/25/2007 6:58:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover quote: ORIGINAL: Zarius For instance, Goreans have a simple practice, All free men (masters) and all Free Women (non slave/sub) will be addressed as Master or Mistress.... Pretty simple rule to me. ... its our custom.... for somone to say "I am a gorean slave, and I will NOT call anyone master / mistress except my own master" then well you just threw down the gauntlet. Leathermen, and other groups have "protocols" and rules that are to be obeyed when you proclaim being Leather or "other".. Its simple, do it. Not that I care to be dragged into this particular disagreement, but for the sake of accuracy, Leathermen do not have any universal protocols. By your description (not having any first hand knowledge of my own), the use of honorifics in Gor is a universal protocol. Consequently, any comparison between a universal Gorean protocol and a Leather protocol is simply not valid. John Greetings John I said Leathermen have protocols, not that they were universal. All groups have protocols, whether they are universal or not wasnt the point sir. Thank you Zarius

Missokyst -> RE: Semantics and the One True Way... (10/25/2007 8:56:59 AM)
I have a way for me in the people I choose to hang out with from day to day. I seek out intelligence, talent, an indication that they take the time to be understood, humor, playfulness and none of the "seriousness of the lifestyle" I see in most online communication. Other people may seek out a stern, unyielding, or passive partner. Everyone has their deal NEITHER of which is the one true way for ALL of us, but it the way for them. That sort of takes out the OTW in the equation because then there are many different ways for many different people. Quite honestly, I don't care what people do in their own space as long as it has no effect on my life. I don't care that someone chooses to be reckless, or doesn't check out their potential partner very carefully before putting on that proverbial collar. I don't care that someone finds themselves in a bad situation because they chose poorly. Unless they are in my life, I don't care. If it was my child (even though they are adults now), and they made the wrong decision, I would support them, help them deal, and pray that they learned from their mistake as I have taught them in life. But strangers..? Nah. As adults we are all responsible for the choices we make. I have made some doozies in my life and yet life moves on. That said, there are some instances where I have no tolerance. If someone where to harm an innocent party, a child, an animal for their personal pleasure and I really hope to be on that jury. As a civilized society there are somethings which we all should find intolerable. If none of those things are present, I just don't care what people do in their bedrooms because I am not there. But if you are speaking of the intolerance in forums, well.. that is what a forum is for, thoughts, beliefs, and ideas that spring because "someone wanted an opinion". I have posted a few things in the last year and sometimes got ripped for it. Life happens, opinions vary, I either ignore it, rise to it, or take a breath and see if I can see another way I could be looking at things. Forums are a way to validate your thoughts, bring in other ideas, or find common ground. If you spill your guts you take your chances. If you don't want to read any negative comments it's probably a better idea not to post. As long as it is out there in a forum people WILL voice their thoughts, good and bad. It is probably a good idea to develop some tolerance for that. Kyst

Dnomyar -> RE: Semantics and the One True Way... (10/25/2007 12:03:10 PM)
wildflers finish the sentence. I said no absolutes HERE. grins.

bipolarber -> RE: Semantics and the One True Way... (10/25/2007 2:17:49 PM)
If we argue that there is no "one true way" to living, then we have to accept that there ARE indeed many ways you could live your life. Lots and lots of these paths can be very positive forces, helping to bring yourself, your partner(s) and the people around you to a better, happier place. Or, at least, many of them are harmless, and bring the individual some measure of satisfaction and happiness. But I think we can also agree that there are other paths, ones that are based on mistaken and false ideas, that just end up hurting people. Wouldn't you agree that, when you come across a "way" that you have seen be highly destructive, hurting a large number of people, that you shouldn't speak out? My feeling is, there may not be "one true way" but there sure as hell are some bad ways out there. Oh, and K, and Z? This time I'm NOT referring to your sub culture specifically.

Rover -> RE: Semantics and the One True Way... (10/25/2007 2:46:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zarius quote: ORIGINAL: Rover quote: ORIGINAL: Zarius For instance, Goreans have a simple practice, All free men (masters) and all Free Women (non slave/sub) will be addressed as Master or Mistress.... Pretty simple rule to me. ... its our custom.... for somone to say "I am a gorean slave, and I will NOT call anyone master / mistress except my own master" then well you just threw down the gauntlet. Leathermen, and other groups have "protocols" and rules that are to be obeyed when you proclaim being Leather or "other".. Its simple, do it. Not that I care to be dragged into this particular disagreement, but for the sake of accuracy, Leathermen do not have any universal protocols. By your description (not having any first hand knowledge of my own), the use of honorifics in Gor is a universal protocol. Consequently, any comparison between a universal Gorean protocol and a Leather protocol is simply not valid. John Greetings John I said Leathermen have protocols, not that they were universal. All groups have protocols, whether they are universal or not wasnt the point sir. Thank you Zarius Actually, if there is to be a comparison made between protocols, then whether they are universal (mandatory) or not (voluntary) is exactly the point. Particularly in the example you used when you stated: "Leathermen, and other groups have "protocols" and rules that are to be obeyed when you proclaim being Leather or "other".. Its simple, do it." There are no protocols that are mandatory (ie: they are not universal) in order for someone to be a Leatherman, whereas you clearly stated that there are mandatory protocols (ie: they are universal) in order to be Gorean: "For instance, Goreans have a simple practice, All free men (masters) and all Free Women (non slave/sub) will be addressed as Master or Mistress.... Pretty simple rule to me. ... its our custom.... for somone to say "I am a gorean slave, and I will NOT call anyone master / mistress except my own master" then well you just threw down the gauntlet." As an analogy, no one is obligated to donate money to charities yet many do. But tell the Internal Revenue Service that you choose not to make a contribution this year. There is no comparison between voluntary and mandatory. You're welcome. John

Tacs -> RE: Semantics and the One True Way... (10/25/2007 5:48:28 PM)
What is submission? It's whatever you want it to be. What is Dominance? It's whatever you want it to be. There is no right or wrong. The rules of engagement are determined solely by the combined dynamics of the two individuals involved. The lifestyle offers a simple framework, but that's only about 2% of the mix. The other 98% comes from the final combination brought to the table by the couple. A "D/s" relationship's only constraints are hard-limits and the collective creativity of the couple. Other than that, it can be whatever they want it to be. "Their way" is the only "true way" (for them, not anyone else).

laurell3 -> RE: Semantics and the One True Way... (10/25/2007 6:58:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bipolarber If we argue that there is no "one true way" to living, then we have to accept that there ARE indeed many ways you could live your life. Lots and lots of these paths can be very positive forces, helping to bring yourself, your partner(s) and the people around you to a better, happier place. Or, at least, many of them are harmless, and bring the individual some measure of satisfaction and happiness. But I think we can also agree that there are other paths, ones that are based on mistaken and false ideas, that just end up hurting people. Wouldn't you agree that, when you come across a "way" that you have seen be highly destructive, hurting a large number of people, that you shouldn't speak out? My feeling is, there may not be "one true way" but there sure as hell are some bad ways out there. Oh, and K, and Z? This time I'm NOT referring to your sub culture specifically. honestly, the answer to this question is no. Recalling what I thought about the lifestyle when I first got into it and how alarmed I would have been at a person that engages in activites that I now know are not harmful and/or "destructive" engage in often leads me believe that we cannot put ourselves in others shoes and say what is right and wrong for them. Again, there are obvious exceptions of people doing things they have no qualifications to do and shouldn't do.

Zarius -> RE: Semantics and the One True Way... (10/26/2007 10:47:58 AM)
Interesting

bipolarber -> RE: Semantics and the One True Way... (10/26/2007 3:48:52 PM)
laurell3, Well, I was talking about the extreme examples, obviously. Stuff that leads to long term or permanent physical or mental damage, (for instance, play which cuts off the blood flow to the brain for short periods... it's not something I consider safe, nor does the AMA.. so I speak out against such play. I know I can't stop people from playing that way if they really want to, but maybe being told about the dangers in the strongest terms possible might make them at least think twice about it.) or that causes social harm to identifiable minorities. Such as, the KKK, or the American Nazi Party. (Both of which I have protested against over the years.) These are the kinds of "bad ideas" that I was referring to.

Kirata -> RE: Semantics and the One True Way... (10/26/2007 6:08:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bipolarber Wouldn't you agree that, when you come across a "way" that you have seen be highly destructive, hurting a large number of people, that you shouldn't speak out? Oh, and K, and Z? This time I'm NOT referring to your sub culture specifically. Not "specifically". Noted. quote: ORIGINAL: bipolarber Stuff that leads to long term or permanent physical or mental damage... or that causes social harm to identifiable minorities. Such as, the KKK, or the American Nazi Party... These are the kinds of "bad ideas" that I was referring to. So let's see, you start out ranting against Goreans, whom you characterize (in their forum) as "fascist". Now in your defense, you propose the principle of speaking out against harmful ideas; not referring to Gor "specifically" but giving the American Nazi Party and the Ku Klux Klan as examples instead. What a subtle fellow you are. K.

RRafe -> RE: Semantics and the One True Way... (10/26/2007 6:53:07 PM)
The only limits that matter to me-are those between an intimate and I. The rest of you can ALL jump off cliffs-for all I care.[;)]

Kirata -> RE: Semantics and the One True Way... (10/26/2007 7:53:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe _____________________________ "Two dysfunctional people-together-do not equal one whole one." Can two whole people together equal one dysfunctional one?

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