RE: Why are most women subs?

RE: Why are most women subs? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion

Message

writergirl -> RE: Why are most women subs? (10/23/2007 8:18:27 PM)
Hello. First post here, but thought this might be interesting to comment on. First, I don't really know that any of us are really able to come to conclusions on what orientation/role "most" <gender> are. What we experience is very much based on where we are and what communities we're taking into consideration when making these statements. If you do a general search on 'slave' here on CM, with no gender preference, you get more men than women. How accurate is that, though? If you go to a leather event, depending on where you are, who's sponsoring the evening and what the main topics are, you may find more femdoms, or more femsubs, or anything else. If you go to a munch, you may find many more femsubs. A reason for this might be because it's a safe environment to dip their toes into the lifestyle. Conversely, you may find more maledoms because they might believe femsubs will come out because it's a safe environment. In my own experience, I have found that more women I know in the lifestyle are submissive or have occasional submissive tendencies (since, of course, a person can be a bottom and not be a submissive). I know quite a number of women who are dominant to all but one man (or woman). I don't know whether the fact that they submit to one makes them submissive. Does it? I also don't think we can discount cultural history in the debate. Some things are so intimately ingrained in people that it's very difficult to see what is "true self" and what is "upbringing/cultural history." One sees this very often in religion. Children remain in their parents' religion because it's what they know, not because they've done heavy soul searching to reach the conclusion that the religion is right for them.Similarly, the gender dynamic of male dominance is a cultural trait that can be measured in age by millenia. When we turn 18 (or hit puberty, or whatever your measure of 'adulthood' is), we don't begin with a blank slate. We are influenced by everything from our families, to the tv shows we watch, to books we read, to the god(s) we worship, to the history we learn. And all those elements are influenced by our own cultural histories, as well. So, do I think women are naturally submissive to men? No, not really. I feel naturally submissive to some men, but certainly not most. There are many, many men that I feel naturally dominant over. I think this lifestyle draws many manner of people for even more reasons. Not all submissive women are really submissive -- some are simply broken in their lives and cannot function without someone else to make their decisions. Not all submissive men are submissive -- some are 'do-me subs' and really are just looking to get their rocks off. Not all dominant women are dominant -- some really are man-hating psychos. And not all dominant ment are really dominant -- some are just little boys who don't like not getting their own way. While I was planning on only adding my .02, it looks like I ran over a bit and tossed about a buck seventy eight in there. writergirl ...also sometimes known as verbosegirl :)

MISTRESSM66 -> RE: Why are most women subs? (10/23/2007 8:27:43 PM)
Actually, a recent survey showed that 42.7 % of all statistics are made up on the spot!

Rover -> RE: Why are most women subs? (10/23/2007 8:27:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: writergirl First, I don't really know that any of us are really able to come to conclusions on what orientation/role "most" <gender> are. Actually, professional statisticians (much like professional pollsters) are able to utilize accepted methods and practices (which I don't pretend to understand) in order to derive meaningful results. Trevor Jacques, whom I've mentioned previously, is a professional statistician and his work has been peer reviewed. John

writergirl -> RE: Why are most women subs? (10/23/2007 8:38:52 PM)
I'm certainly not arguing anything about Trevor Jacques. I believe the sentence of mine which you quoted said "any of us." I've yet to have seen Mr Jacques post, so I believe him to be excluded, at this time. Also, not having seen any of his data, I don't have any idea the statistical relevance of his findings, simply because I don't know the parameters of his surveys. I don't know who he surveyed, how the surveys were conducted, what the questions were, what his statistical margins were, etc. Additionally, while I'm sure much of his statistical research has been peer reviewed (considering his background), I'm not really sure how many peers he actually has within the BDSM community who do the statistical crunching. There's much more theorizing within the BDSM academic community rather than hard, statistical research. Regardless of that, however, as I said, I've never seen the data, so I can't make an assessment of it for myself. wg

Rover -> RE: Why are most women subs? (10/23/2007 8:47:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: writergirl Additionally, while I'm sure much of his statistical research has been peer reviewed (considering his background), I'm not really sure how many peers he actually has within the BDSM community who do the statistical crunching. There's much more theorizing within the BDSM academic community rather than hard, statistical research. I attended a presentation given by Trevor Jacques last year (maybe it was the year before) and was shocked to learn of all the BDSM statisticians in the audience (of course, they probably came out of the woodwork for this workshop). They naturally asked quite a few questions whose relevance I was unable to follow (truth be known, I was unable to follow most of the mathematical questions and answers). quote: Regardless of that, however, as I said, I've never seen the data, so I can't make an assessment of it for myself. A perfectly fair and understandable statement. John wg

LadyHugs -> RE: Why are most women subs? (10/23/2007 8:59:30 PM)
Dear RRafe, Ladies and Gentlemen, May I offer a thought to your premise of the one who has the poker is on top and the one who does not have one, is on the bottom-- There is a fist and forearm fake phallus that fits into a harness, that 'could' be strapped on a Dominant female and -- a male could with a lot of lube and stretching 'take' that fake phallus. So, I personally feel that this could put in question that men are always on top of the sexual heep per se and or inherited domination over women. I'm sure I can borrow it from my male friend who has 'huge' to 'small' fake phallus' and or 'pokers for pokees.' Just some thoughts. Respectfully submitted for consideration, Lady Hugs

Estring -> RE: Why are most women subs? (10/23/2007 9:00:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 I never said i was offended by it.. I was just wondering the reason why... Not saying that you were offended. Some others seem to be.

writergirl -> RE: Why are most women subs? (10/23/2007 9:01:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover I attended a presentation given by Trevor Jacques last year (maybe it was the year before) and was shocked to learn of all the BDSM statisticians in the audience (of course, they probably came out of the woodwork for this workshop). They naturally asked quite a few questions whose relevance I was unable to follow (truth be known, I was unable to follow most of the mathematical questions and answers). Certainly, I stand corrected, then. The only name I know in connection to the higher BDSM academia is Gloria Brame, though I also admit to not following the study of the lifestyle very closely. I do believe that any statistical research on BDSM practitioners will be, by nature, a bit spotty, because making a statistically relevant survey is difficult enough, but you also lose what I believe is a somewhat sizeable portion simply because not everyone in the lifestyle is 1) online, and 2) open about what they do. Polling online communities lends itself to getting a lot of data from people who consider having met someone in a motel room for a weekend as 'having experience.' Polling leather events only gives you the demographic of those who are public in some way. And, truly, it's not a survey you can really call households at dinnertime with. So I wouldn't be at all surprised to find skewed data, not through any major fault of the researcher(s), but simply because getting a good sample population may not be as easy as it first seems. wg

RRafe -> RE: Why are most women subs? (10/23/2007 9:03:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHugs Dear RRafe, Ladies and Gentlemen, May I offer a thought to your premise of the one who has the poker is on top and the one who does not have one, is on the bottom-- There is a fist and forearm fake phallus that fits into a harness, that 'could' be strapped on a Dominant female and -- a male could with a lot of lube and stretching 'take' that fake phallus. So, I personally feel that this could put in question that men are always on top of the sexual heep per se and or inherited domination over women. I'm sure I can borrow it from my male friend who has 'huge' to 'small' fake phallus' and or 'pokers for pokees.' Just some thoughts. Respectfully submitted for consideration, Lady Hugs And strap on wielding Dommes are what percent of the bdsm population? Five-if that?

Estring -> RE: Why are most women subs? (10/23/2007 9:04:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RosesHaveThorns I disagree with the statement that girls are taught that men and women are equal. Yes, the teacher may say it, or perhaps a parent or two(Or three?) but culture does NOT. WARNING: This is written by someone in U.S., so this mostly applies to people in the U.S., or to people in "Westren" countries. I doubt that I could write something for another set of cultural beliefs. First of all, even if most of us are not Christian(And I am not even sure if that is true), plenty of us live in a country dominated by them. And pretty conservative ones, too. In th U.S., politicans are constantly judged on height, appearence, moral values, and appeal to Christians. Our freaking Pledge of Alliegance has the statement in it "Under God". There aren't exaclty many good female role models out there in politics for girls in the U.S. Looking at Anorexia/Bulimia, disorders which affect primarily girls. They are taught that they must sacrafice their health in order to be weak and thin to appeal to BOYS. They do it to confirm to what boys want. Girls still get made fun of for trying to join high school football teams or even athletics. I know that at my school, most of the girls on teams were assumed to be sluts. Hell, guys find it funny to remark upon the fact that I open the frigging door sometimes. And do I even have to mention the slut/madonna complex? Were you kidnapped by aliens and just returned to Earth after a 50 year disappearance?

cloudboy -> RE: Why are most women subs? (10/23/2007 9:04:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xoxi Because we like to be penetrated. Serious answer. Congratulations, you are the first person to try and answer the question. I think that's an interesting theory. Conversely, wanting to penetrate someone is a dominant act.

LadyHugs -> RE: Why are most women subs? (10/23/2007 9:15:51 PM)
Dear Rover, Ladies and Gentlemen, Mr. Trevor Jacques never contacted me, asked me to participate in his poll or be counted. I must assume that others have not been included as well. So, for those who do not participate in polls are not included or involved--it could throw the satistics totally out of the window. Then, you have areas themselves. Some have a thriving population of non-switching Female Dominants and some may have a sparce few. That said, satistics can/may be flawed, especially when it is done in a selective group and many not reflect in a national/international the accurate count. It is based on participation and not on those who exist and never heard or seen any polls taken and or refuse to participate. I am a non Switching Female Dominant myself. Only switching I do is taking a switch off a tree and applying it to someone or turning power, lights, etc. on and off. Just some thoughts. Respectfully submitted for consideration, Lady Hugs

Rover -> RE: Why are most women subs? (10/23/2007 9:20:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: writergirl So I wouldn't be at all surprised to find skewed data, not through any major fault of the researcher(s), but simply because getting a good sample population may not be as easy as it first seems. I can appreciate your concerns, and they seem very reasonable. Wish I had the background to respond intelligently about them, but I don't. You might want to contact Trevor Jacques directly, though. He's quite a nice guy. John

Rover -> RE: Why are most women subs? (10/23/2007 9:23:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHugs Mr. Trevor Jacques never contacted me, asked me to participate in his poll or be counted. I must assume that others have not been included as well. So, for those who do not participate in polls are not included or involved--it could throw the satistics totally out of the window. I do understand enough about statistics to know that universal participation is not required in order to achieve a statistically relevant result. Perhaps you misunderstood the issue. John

LadyHugs -> RE: Why are most women subs? (10/23/2007 9:23:58 PM)
Dear RRafe, Ladies and Gentlemen, Well, that is a good question as to the percentages. Depends on if a male Dominant takes the poll or of female Dominants take the poll. Polls might be slanted to favor any arguement/stance. Polls are often flawed as they are depending on participation and honest answers. Judging from watching politics/election polls--nobody knows the percentages until the last vote is counted, verified, run through the red tape and sealed in the box per se. Just some thoughts. Respectfully submitted for consideration, Lady Hugs

Estring -> RE: Why are most women subs? (10/23/2007 9:26:15 PM)
So polls should never be done unless every person on Earth is included? Polls are representative. They always have a margin of error. The poll very well may be right. It may not be, but does it really matter?

Vendaval -> RE: Why are most women subs? (10/23/2007 9:26:19 PM)
Do not overlook the fact that many male submissives go to Pro-Dommes to preserve their privacy and are not likely to participate in Lifestyle polls.

RRafe -> RE: Why are most women subs? (10/23/2007 9:27:19 PM)
We can only see the tip of the icebeg, and that is all we really have to go on. Better not to assume.

RRafe -> RE: Why are most women subs? (10/23/2007 9:28:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Vendaval Do not overlook the fact that many male submissives go to Pro-Dommes to preserve their privacy and are not likely to participate in Lifestyle polls. Especially since a large proportion of thier clientele are well to do proffesional men-who's lives would suffer if they were outed.

LadyHugs -> RE: Why are most women subs? (10/23/2007 9:42:30 PM)
Dear Ladies and Gentlemen, This is not directed to any one in particular and or posts. I do wish to express, that no matter who views a measure of how many submissives or Dominants there are, then the gender count and so on, is really dependent on the time, place and the participation where individuals could be counted. It really is a no-win situation when there may be areas which are not reflecting to another area. Sometimes there are really no answers to why things are what they may be and or are--it is 'just' is. No matter what a woman chooses to be--should be supported and not be put into a light of judgment of better or worse if a woman is this role or not. I am an individual and to be put into a stereo-typical gender association situation, to which if contrary--its a subject of debate as if to remedy the situation of dominant women, as to put them back into some submissive state of existance against their nature or their choices, then find themselves having to correct an assumption and or justifying themselves and or their roles; or having to see women who are submissive, justifying themselves as to why they wish to be submissive. I am not upset by this though--I am just disappointed that it is still a question posed so much and or often and mostly by men, as if to think women are in need of being explained. I rather be treated as an individual instead of a percentage. Just some thoughts. Respectfully submitted for consideration, Lady Hugs

Page: << < prev 2 3 [4] 5 6 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875