RE: Communication (Full Version)

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enchainee -> RE: Communication (11/19/2007 7:19:11 AM)

Thank you Archer. Your analysis is thoughtful, educated, helpful and reasonable and appreciated. 



celticlord2112 -> RE: Communication (11/19/2007 9:08:54 AM)

Communication means being emotionally honest first and foremost. If it is your nature to react emotionally, then by all means do so. Anything less is holding back. Personally, if I wanted such restraint and denial, I would have chosen a vanilla path.

Slaves will feel anger, sorrow, and joy, each in its own time. By what logic must masters deny themselves this?

quote:

ORIGINAL: PryderiLoup

In several threads I have seen people telling others to communicate. Communication is wonderful thing, and important in every relationship. We all agree that it is more important in D/s than in most walks of life.

Unfortunately, telling someone to communicate is like setting down all the ingredients to bake a cake, and telling the to bake it. Some people will have a lot of experience, and get right to work. Others may have only eaten cake before, and while they know you mix a bunch of stuff together and put it in the oven, they have no idea how to get started.

I thought I would put down a couple of things I have learned over the years, and hope that others can add some helpful thoughts. I do not have any sort of degree that makes me an expert in this, but I know a bit about it. Of course, these will come from a dominants perspective.

First, if you want your submissive to communicate with you, she has to feel safe. That means you have to check your emotional reactions at the door. If something makes you hurt, sad, afraid, or angry, that is ok, and in many cases, it is okay to say so. But you cannot react emotionally. You cannot judge what she says, or accuse.

Second, it is often best to make sure that nothing else is going on to distract you. As a dominant, you need to listen intently. That is hard if the TV is going, the dog needs to be feed, you know, life.

I have often told my submissive how to alert me when she needs to communicate seriously… It might be a phrase, or a word. Something that works for her and me.

Finally, and this one is hardest for me, don’t interrupt. I have a tendency to think I know what someone is going to say, and answer before they have a chance to say it, especially if I like what I am hearing. I know that seems weird, but I have other mechanisms when I feel defensive.

I would love to hear from submissives how they cope with letting their dominants know when they need to talk about something. I have found that sometimes I don’t hear when someone needs to talk seriously, and try to set it up so that she can.



lauren0221 -> RE: Communication (11/19/2007 10:15:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Communication means being emotionally honest first and foremost. If it is your nature to react emotionally, then by all means do so. Anything less is holding back. Personally, if I wanted such restraint and denial, I would have chosen a vanilla path.

Slaves will feel anger, sorrow, and joy, each in its own time. By what logic must masters deny themselves this?




There is a difference between reacting with emotion, and reacting with out of control emotion. There are many situations where a calm, clear head is what is needed. I would never expect a Dominant to not have, or express emotions, but there are many roles (parent, employer, friend, partner) where your own emotions need to go on the back burner for a time so a situation can be effectively handled.

Some examples - I've worked in HR. When an employee comes to me with a badly bleeding hand, I can't scream and throw up. I need to be calm and comforting, and get them to the doctor.

Same with strong emotion - if a child has done something very stupid - an enormous freakout is not usually an effective response - you need to deal with the situation before you deal with your own emotions.

If I can't feel safe to to say ANYTHING to my Dominant, then, for me, the relationship is not going to work. I have a hard enough time expressing myself as it is - a strong, negative emotional response to my words is going to shut me down, and inhibit future expression.



slaveluci -> RE: Communication (11/19/2007 10:43:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65
I do let him know there is a problem, I tell him that I feel tangled up inside and he takes over from there. He listens, really listens to me. He doesn't try and fix things (something I've learned is a typical male reaction, to fix instead of listen

I agree, Camille, and I really like how you put this.  Master does the very same thing.  He seems to instinctively know when I just need Him to listen.  If I need His help to "fix" something, He's all for doing that.  But, as you say, that isn't His first and only response.  He realizes that letting me tell him how "tangled up" I am (love that term[:)]) helps the most.  The first step in getting untangled is to tell Him all about it..............luci



celticlord2112 -> RE: Communication (11/19/2007 10:48:22 AM)

We always have a choice as to how we respond to our emotions. Choosing a "non-freaking out" response, however, is different from putting emotions on the back burner.

If I am angry, I am angry in the here and now, in the moment that is before me. I will not be angry later, because that si a different moment with different emotions.

It is generally wise to refrain from overreaction, whether master or slave. However, it is equally wise not to refrain from reaction, period. Where the balance lies....is something each has to resolve on his or her own.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lauren0221

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Communication means being emotionally honest first and foremost. If it is your nature to react emotionally, then by all means do so. Anything less is holding back. Personally, if I wanted such restraint and denial, I would have chosen a vanilla path.

Slaves will feel anger, sorrow, and joy, each in its own time. By what logic must masters deny themselves this?




There is a difference between reacting with emotion, and reacting with out of control emotion. There are many situations where a calm, clear head is what is needed. I would never expect a Dominant to not have, or express emotions, but there are many roles (parent, employer, friend, partner) where your own emotions need to go on the back burner for a time so a situation can be effectively handled.

Some examples - I've worked in HR. When an employee comes to me with a badly bleeding hand, I can't scream and throw up. I need to be calm and comforting, and get them to the doctor.

Same with strong emotion - if a child has done something very stupid - an enormous freakout is not usually an effective response - you need to deal with the situation before you deal with your own emotions.

If I can't feel safe to to say ANYTHING to my Dominant, then, for me, the relationship is not going to work. I have a hard enough time expressing myself as it is - a strong, negative emotional response to my words is going to shut me down, and inhibit future expression.



tulitukka -> RE: Communication (11/19/2007 10:57:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

Nope, I am not confusing these things at all. I am saying, again, that you must RESPOND IN A MANNER THAT IS NOT PRIMARILY DICTATED BY EMOTIONS.

And I would have to ask you WHY. Why would you think it is imperative that you NOT respond in a way that is dictated by emotions? She makes you happy with something she did, you respond to that; she upsets you, you respond to that.
Explain to me so that I can understand why you feel it is so important that you keep emotions in check at a time like this. Explain it to me because I am truly not understanding what you are saying here.





I can't speak for him, but for me it is partly a matter of training. I teach my submissive to communicate her feelings and her needs. If, when she does as I require her, I feel hurt, I make damn sure I don't lash out at her for doing exactly what I wanted her to do. I make sure that the environment I provide for her makes it easier day by day to communicate her needs rather than harder. And one of the things it (sometimes) requires is for me to keep my emotions in check.

I'm a big boy and I can deal with my emotions. I also don't bottle them up. Instead, I let her speak to the finish, make sure she is okay, and then I tell her that now it's time to take care of my emotional needs.

The only way I know for two people to heal each other is to take turns. And as in my 24/7 relationship I am at the receiving end of the power exchange, it becomes my responsibility to make the environment good for emotional well-being. My girl also has responsibilities, such as telling me what she feels and needs - and listening and supporting me, when I need it.

So at least for me, keeping my emotions in check and making sure I don't hurt my submissive in ways I would regret later, I am doing exactly what I believe I should as a dominant.



cyberchicdoll -> RE: Communication (11/19/2007 11:37:23 AM)

I have just started in a 24/7 relationship (7months). We communicate about anything and everything which makes it far easier to open up when something which effects our lifestly comes up. Master and i have been exploring heavy flogging and very physical scenes.  The highs have been for the both of us.  Master makes it a point of taking a long time to care for me after a scene.  We both fly in our own ways and spend a long time to come down and he wants me to feel safe and cherished. During this time we open up and both listen to eachother.  We take time in every day lives just to chat too.  At any time i  can say anything to him and he listens he has 2 ears lol. Sometimes We just go out in the car and take a break from everything and we talk our hearts out . He is always awake before me and is open to talk any time over a coffee. Some times it is hard when our real lives interfere when work and family takes precedent but there is always that time when we are quiet when i say Master what about........? and he listens.
Before i left my husband to be with Master it was soooo difficult to truly communicate in a deep way. Phone calls and the  msn didnt really do it, so for me i had to be 24/7. The one Dominant i did have who got it right made a session a month where we would go out and not scene, away from everything and we would talk about anything .  It was good to get away from our workaday lives and open up on lifstyle topics. He told me of his past s and i opened up to him about what i wanted. The getting away worked. Some times we just have to make an effort to get out of our normal routines.
I have found a deeper understanding in my heart since i have been opening up since we have been together.  For a Domnant it is not weak to share what is in the heart, it just has to be judged when it is appropriate.
Hope this is of some help as it is from the heart lol it may not make much sense to any one else lol.
cyberchicdoll



Tigrita -> RE: Communication (11/19/2007 11:42:33 AM)

lauren0221 took the words right out of my mouth.  Some things are just plain hard to hear, and that makes them dangerous to say.  If you can't trust someone to be rational during a very dificult conversation, it is just going to make you afraid to bring things up to them, and make them even bigger issues as time goes on.

I think the biggest issue I've had in communicating with partners is deffensive and offensive reactions.  Weaving their own insecurities into mix and making things worse than they are.  Defensive as in making excuses instead of working towards solutions, and offensive as in turning things around and pointing out a new problem, like a different issue they have with me, rather than tackling the one at hand and taking them one at a time.  It can become a finger pointing contest, who to blame, who's problem is more important, who should bend to comprimise. 

Someone mentioned dealing with important communication issues in writing (sorry, lost track of who mentioned that).  I'm a big fan of that, I pretty much can't express myself about big complicated things out loud.  Partly fear of over reaction, fear of not making myself clear, partly disatisfaction with the ephemeral nature of the spoken word, how it just evaporates with no record of its presence.  I journal a loooooot when something is bothering me.  I get out all the irrational, convoluted stuff, and find what is consistent, the heart of the issue.  Then I write a letter to my partner, and I can take my time and be extremely clear and not mis-speak anything.  This also prevents fear of a hasty over-reaction, because they can respond in writing in kind (though this didn't stop one ex from being very hasty and hurtful in his written words sometimes).  And if I have a strong emotional reaction to vent out, I can write a venting letter, not send it, come back to it in an hour or a day, decide if that is rational and if they deserve it (almost always not), revise, and be rational about it.  Sometimes repeat a couple times before sending =P
And when you have your thoughts out in writing you can refer back to them and see what progress you've made, resolve future misunderstandings, etc.  It is just nice to have a record of what and how you talked about things.

I think Stephan might not be of the human race though, because he is the only person I've ever had 'tough' conversations with who is not the least bit defensive or offensive, and just completely calm and productive.  Nothing I have ever brought to him, even really scary, potentially dealbreaker situations, has ever caused an irrational emotional overreaction.  That is not to say he doesn't have emotions.  He certainly does and I know them and feel them very strongly with him, but he doesn't let them cloud his communication.  I'd like to think I do pretty well with that too, as we've had our share of 'big' talks already, and all have been free of judging, hurtfulness, blame, and all those things that eat away at a relationship.   This is what makes this relationship the best I've ever had in terms of communication (not to mention other things...).



chellekitty -> RE: Communication (11/19/2007 6:55:02 PM)

quote:

Slaves will feel anger, sorrow, and joy, each in its own time. By what logic must masters deny themselves this?


yes, slaves will feel those, this slave feels those, but if i act or react with any of those in an out of control matter, from any point, even joy, i am told to calm down, regroup, and try again...because communication does not happen when a person is out of control, no matter what their orientation is...

something i have found helpful in the past is a table or place or time or something set aside specifically where all roles are dropped - especially when it is a poly household (it's harder to say, i need to talk, wait, let me grab her, and him and hold on i gotta...if you see someone sitting at the table you know something is up, or you know at this time, everything else gets put aside) - and you just talk, without having to be "in role", and what is said there does not affect what happens "in role"...like a slave does not get punished for what is said at the table...it doesn't work for everyone...but it has worked for me in the past....

chelle



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