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Manipulation positive/negative - 8/1/2005 3:15:55 PM   
cheekybottom


Posts: 69
Joined: 5/28/2005
Status: offline 		I like to draw on the word manipulation when writing for contrasting purposes after all it is an applied action and can be used either positively or negatively depending upon how it is employed-exploitatively or skillfully. However it has been my experience through forum writing that it brings on a knee jerk reaction of complete and utter negativism. And because of this I feel it is one of many words completely misunderstood and immediately taken out of context.

It’s a shame that manipulation is widely viewed as a destructive action rather than one of functional use. Yes, manipulation is a calculated technique designed to inflame the mental and physical aspects of the Dominant and submissive in question. However if we are going to look upon manipulation based on function then we must also concentrate on intent rather than the word itself for the outcome could inflame ones senses resulting in lustful passion as well as incited rage and or duplicity therefore both good and bad reactions.


quote:

Think about this in terms of altering consent or creating a desire. Then manipulation and seduction aren’t that far apart. ~RS


A Dominant contact of mine brought up a good point which reinforces the use of manipulation as being more negative than positive but if we were to focus and re direct or thinking then we could bring around a more positive intent if not acceptable reaction to the word manipulation.

quote:

My thought on this, consider; does the director of an orchestra, manipulate or lead? ~Fire_eyes


The conductor draws upon his skill (manipulation) which enables him to lead the orchestra. In this case manipulation is used as a constructive tool. The orchestra is already talented although they require someone to draw it out in them and encourage their abilities through subtle acts of manipulation which are nothing more than tricks of the trade.

quote:

I try to exert influence in leadership. I try to avoid manipulation. ~Soldat


I don’t think we can avoid manipulation for it is an inherent human behavior no matter the intent.

To me manipulation is nothing more than a method of control used by the Dominant in order to challenge the submissive through acts of persuasion pitting them against the opposing force and engaging their combined senses in a purely elemental way or a more subtle mind fuck can be used leading the submissive unwittingly and take them places not yet discovered or experienced a realm of unaware impossibilities areas where you didn’t think you could ever go. Not such a bad thing in my opinion.

I’ve never felt as though I was tricked or handled in a false manner since my consent was already given in the first place. Unfortunately this isn’t always the case for everybody.

What does manipulation mean to you?

Out of curiosity :

What is the first idea that comes to mind when you put Domination and Manipulation together?

What is your first reaction when submissive and manipulation are linked together?

As it stands collectively speaking most of us view manipulation as exploitation comming from the Dominant or Topping from the bottom from the submissive.

As a submissive there really isn’t a positive place for manipulation now is there? If there is I’d appreciate some feed back.

I have recently had some correspondence with a slave who feels that manipulation is necessary based upon her relationship where she maintains a certain amount of control over her reactions to her Dominant because she is living with a Sadist 24/7 and has discovered that over a long period of time she becomes exhausted by the teasing, mocking, emotional entrapment and general tricks he engages in. Her belief is that she has a responsibility to manage her own psychic health as well as steering clear from the “we have to talk” stage or “look, just stop” so she has found ways of responding to his Sadistic advances that can cause them to kind of peter out like possuming which is most decidedly manipulation. Predators don’t hunt dead animals. Predators don’t eat dead animals. Dead animals bore predators. And so she will respond to him in such a way as to specifically cause him to lose interest in tormenting her. If he has sniffed her out he will push through her counter tactic or wander off disinterested in putting forth the effort of drawing her out and will come back later when she might be more refreshed and ready to play again.

This all makes sense to me these subtle manipulations which seem to be less damaging to their M/s dynamic then hashing things out which could very well blow each others head space. Sometimes problems should just be handled instead of becoming issues, which is what manipulate originally means, to handle.

~d~


< Message edited by cheekybottom -- 8/1/2005 3:19:13 PM >

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RE: Manipulation positive/negative - 8/1/2005 5:24:51 PM   
MrThorns


Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		Mainpulation, at the heart of it's nature, is not an evil thing. The problems with manipulation (within the realm of BDSM) come when it is used in such a manner as to undermine the relationship and disrupt the power dynamic.

Examples of good manipulation?

Teasing a slave to begging...then backing away...repeatedly. The end result is to create a most incredible and intense orgasm that will leave her in a gooey-girly puddle.

A slave using her seductiveness in a manner to which the dominant finds pleasing.

Examples of misused manipulation?

Crying, creating drama, refusing to acknowledge her responsibility for her behavior and basically making life miserable for a dominant because he isn't playing with her according to her timetable.

Using ones domliness as an excuse for cheating, dishonest behavior, etc. and brow beating the submissive because she caught him.

quote:

What is the first idea that comes to mind when you put Domination and Manipulation together?

What is your first reaction when submissive and manipulation are linked together?


I'll admit having a bias here, but typically, I associate having rather pleasant thoughts about how a dominant can use manipulation to better the relationship, while I associate rather negative feelings with the thought of submissives being manipulative. Is it a double standard? Sure, but I am really okay with that. Reason being, it is a dominant's duty to lead the relationship, to try and heighten the experience, press limits, and reach for new heights. The submissives duty is to follow.

~Thorns





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RE: Manipulation positive/negative - 8/1/2005 6:04:14 PM   
cheekybottom


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quote:

I'll admit having a bias here, but typically, I associate having rather pleasant thoughts about how a dominant can use manipulation to better the relationship, while I associate rather negative feelings with the thought of submissives being manipulative. Is it a double standard? Sure, but I am really okay with that. Reason being, it is a dominant's duty to lead the relationship, to try and heighten the experience, press limits, and reach for new heights. The submissives duty is to follow.


Agreed, however it does trouble (interests) me that there doesn’t seem to be any positive use of manipulation concerning the submissive aside from enhancing ones appearance and or pleasing actions, even possuming as it was mentioned isn’t so much positive but protective. Perhaps manipulation isn't really meant to be used by submissives as it is a means to control another and our duty is simply to follow however I as a submissive/slave-person am curious and wish to learn and understand everything around me.

Thank you for your input,
~d~




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RE: Manipulation positive/negative - 8/1/2005 7:31:12 PM   
mossy


Posts: 189
Joined: 2/21/2005
Status: offline 		you made some good points cheeky bottom, i went to websters dictionary....the rest of the definition states: with skill; to cause by clever maneuvering to act as one wishes.
Yet i still believe in a way a lot of the things you said may still stand. The only thing i would like to add and i am sure you already meant this.... is it can only be as positive as the motives involved, and the mindset of the person instituting it.

Then i had to question the dictionary defininition? "to act as one wishes" well the sub/slave needs training, stimulation, some Doms/Masters like to keep things a bit off balance, something just tells me that manipulation may not be the right word? It seems to be a solitary act? Not designed for the good of two. i may be wrong here. Just a thought.

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RE: Manipulation positive/negative - 8/1/2005 7:45:38 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline 		Hmmm...quite an interesting post. So much to comment on, but I will take this little bite...

quote:

ORIGINAL: cheekybottom
What is the first idea that comes to mind when you put Domination and Manipulation together?



I think that manipulation is a form of domination. Think about the artist who manipulates the clay to so take some beautiful shape. It is literally putty in his hands.

I find that manipulation is my primary form of dominance. I hate to yell, and simply can't abide bratty submissives. Yet, I find that my mind is quite adept at finding the perfect path to getting exactly what I want from almost anyone...

Manipulation is a stronger form of persuasion. It is the Jedi mind trick and the use of reverse psychology. It is like playing a wonderful game of chess with no rules and little structure...

Manipulation is what attracts me to wiitwd.

Taggard


< Message edited by TallDarkAndWitty -- 8/1/2005 7:46:02 PM >

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RE: Manipulation positive/negative - 8/1/2005 7:58:00 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		LOL this is why I waited on this thread, I knew someone would sum it up better than I would.

This is also why I consider myself to have a dominant personality. I'm pretty good at manipulating people and situations, it's an excellent skill to have.

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RE: Manipulation positive/negative - 8/2/2005 1:34:36 AM   
cheekybottom


Posts: 69
Joined: 5/28/2005
Status: offline 		I have shared my views upon manipulation elsewhere and I must say I am surprised as well as pleased to find positive reactions to such a confrontational word here.

quote:

Manipulation is a stronger form of persuasion. It is the Jedi mind trick and the use of reverse psychology. It is like playing a wonderful game of chess with no rules and little structure... ~TallDarkAndWitty


Very well stated, and it also behooves some of us submissives and slaves to realize once we place our trust and consent with another that yes we’ve agreed to this, you were never taken advantage of, out maneuvered and totally controlled, yes of course, which is the natural way of Dominance and submissiveness is it not?

quote:

I consider myself to have a dominant personality. I'm pretty good at manipulating people and situations; it's an excellent skill to have. ~EmeraldSlave2


Smiles me too, and I couldn’t agree with you more.

I have often struggled over this mindset, trying to get others to understand that no I am not Topping from the bottom, at least not intentionally, just simply trying to find the exact amount of control/strength from the right person for me. If I desire something specifically like a good beating I have no problems asking since I’ve never found it necessary to act out in order to have my needs met when stating them can be so much more efficient. However some situations do require subtle forms of manipulation in order to get from point A to point B.

Thank you for the responses I hope they continue either in agreement or not I want it all.

~d~


< Message edited by cheekybottom -- 8/2/2005 8:13:28 AM >

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RE: Manipulation positive/negative - 8/2/2005 2:16:53 AM   
wetsub000


Posts: 91
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		OK Let me put another view. As I understand it there are two definitions for manipulation. One is more directly from the latin, which is to handle/maneouvre etc. I see no problem with this. The second definition is where someone uses psychological means to achieve an advantage over another without their being aware of it. This would seem to go against consensual in SCC.

While I think we all manipulate (2nd term) and are manipulated as a general rule I don't think it's a good thing. Firstly if I'm the one trying to manipulate then I have to ask myself why I need to do this with the person I'm with rather than being open and honest ie is there a fundamental flaw in the relationship. If I'm the one being manipulated then I think that's dishonesty on the part of the manipulater and it brings me back to: is there a fundamental flaw in the relationship?

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RE: Manipulation positive/negative - 8/2/2005 3:22:33 AM   
SteelBondager


Posts: 86
Joined: 5/29/2005
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quote:

What is the first idea that comes to mind when you put Domination and Manipulation together?


First Idea...
Influence - consciously affecting the will, the emotions.

quote:

What is your first reaction when submissive and manipulation are linked together?


First Reaction...
I thought of how a submissive anticipates the dominant's needs. There is a manipulation involved there. Choosing what clothes to press for the next morning. Making coffee even if it wasn't marked on the breakfast order - just in case. Cleaning the front closet when guests are coming in wintertime, making room for coats.

I notice the little infringements on (to?) my dominance. I notice the liberties. It's as if I can "feel" them. I especially notice this when several people are serving at the same time.

I like it when someone is looking out for me. I get to be in charge all the time. It's nice to find that hot drink waiting for me when I get in from the pool, even if I forgot to order one.

In determining if manipulation is good or bad, it seems at first that intent matters. Perhaps effect is more important.

cheekybottom, it's good to see you back. I missed your posts.

< Message edited by SteelBondager -- 8/2/2005 3:23:59 AM >

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RE: Manipulation positive/negative - 8/2/2005 7:30:44 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wetsub000
The second definition is where someone uses psychological means to achieve an advantage over another without their being aware of it. This would seem to go against consensual in SCC.

If taken to a certain level, or a point of ACTIVELY hiding things, I agree.

But we all manipulate situations, we all speak a certain way, we all reveal things in certain orders, our profiles were written for a specific purpose to the audience- those are all forms of manipulation.

Being able to manipulate situations shows not only an AWARENESS of the world around us, a desire to INTERACT with the world around us, taking OPPORTUNITIES as they are given to us (which is why being opportunistic tends to get a bad rap as well), and in some ways making yourself a key in the entire process of where you are in life, rather than simply letting people and situations roll you over helplessly.

Most people don't want to be in relationships with people who are incapable of manipulating things in their life. The problem comes when the manipulation is not only unconscious, but destructive to building strong relationships.


quote:

Firstly if I'm the one trying to manipulate then I have to ask myself why I need to do this with the person I'm with rather than being open and honest ie is there a fundamental flaw in the relationship.

Hmm manipulation doesn't necessary mean you aren't being open and honest. In fact being open and honest is sometimes a great way to manipulate someone :)

quote:

If I'm the one being manipulated then I think that's dishonesty on the part of the manipulater and it brings me back to: is there a fundamental flaw in the relationship?

That's a great question to ask and definitely one that SHOULD be asked. Though the answer itself is not necessarily true or false.

I think more important is the intent behind the manipulation, the motivation, rather than the manipulation itself. After all, most submissives LOVE being plied and romanced and having their heartstrings played on.

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RE: Manipulation positive/negative - 8/2/2005 7:43:17 AM   
MrThorns


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cheekybottom

If I desire something specifically like a good beating I have no problems asking since I’ve never found it necessary to act out in order to meet my needs when stating them can be so much more efficient.


YES!!!! Gads, it absolutely infuriates me when people overlook something this simple. If you want something, ask. Be prepared to hear an answer you may not like, but trust that the request has been heard and that your particular needs will be met when the dominant is ready to take the time to do so. Being able to clearly communicate with your partner is one of the most valuable parts of any relationship, IMO.

quote:

However some situations do require subtle forms of manipulation in order to get from point A to point B.

This I have never understood within a D/s structure. If you are wanting to give control to your dominant, why would you try to take it back subversively? Even if it is "subtle", as soon as a manipulation is performed, are you not trying to control the dominant? I really feel that any manipulation, performed by the submissive, that is designed for her sole benefit, really undermines the core of the relationship.

We talk constantly about trust, building trust, and how that trust is established through consistancy in words and deeds. We hear about so many breeches of trust on the part of a dominant and "How could he do this to me?!?", but then the same submissive doesn't think twice about subtley wrenching control from her dominant through manipulative behaviors.

In these forums, there are several threads where submissives claim that they would "do anything" for their dominant. Some will lie, cheat, steal and even kill for them, (As mentioned in the "Slave's Obedience" thread). They want to give everything to their dominant, allowing the dominant total control...but then take that control away through manipulative behaviors in order to make things more convienent for themselves? I don't see how this contributes anything to the relationship.

~Thorns

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RE: Manipulation positive/negative - 8/2/2005 7:48:18 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns
They want to give everything to their dominant, allowing the dominant total control...but then take that control away through manipulative behaviors in order to make things more convienent for themselves? I don't see how this contributes anything to the relationship.

~Thorns

I concur, it's quite interesting for me to constantly face that "No Manipulation Zone" around the Owner, when I'm so adept at it otherwise. While I certainly CAN still manipulate things in his life, in fact he encourages it in the sense of "be pro-active to make me happier" it's a very obvious act and we both know exactly what's going on at all times.

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RE: Manipulation positive/negative - 8/2/2005 8:09:12 AM   
cheekybottom


Posts: 69
Joined: 5/28/2005
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quote:

The second definition is where someone uses psychological means to achieve an advantage over another without their being aware of it. This would seem to go against consensual in SCC. ~wetsub000


I can hardly disagree with the premises of your statement however I’ll split a few hairs here.

You’ve already given consent to said Dominant, you are in a committed relationship with him or maybe not, perhaps it is with a play partner and the two of you are nothing more than Top and bottom but again you’ve given consent. Trust is paramount it isn’t taken for granted the two of you have already established trust. You would hardly consent otherwise now would you? And now the two of you engage in >insert scene< can you honestly tell me that there won’t be any manipulation handled by the Dominant in question to get you to do and be whatever he wishes? Do you really think such tactics will be set aside? No he will use them to get inside you, tear you apart until you are bared before him opened, vulnerable and completely his. By definition this is what he is and who you become.

quote:

While I think we all manipulate (2nd term) and are manipulated as a general rule I don't think it's a good thing. Firstly if I'm the one trying to manipulate then I have to ask myself why I need to do this with the person I'm with rather than being open and honest i.e. is there a fundamental flaw in the relationship. If I'm the one being manipulated then I think that's dishonesty on the part of the manipulator and it brings me back to: is there a fundamental flaw in the relationship? ~wetsub000


I couldn’t agree with you more, but then everything you’ve mentioned is based upon intent. If the Dominant in question knows that you have problems with enclosed spaces that this is a hard limit for you and he manipulates you through control or influence where it becomes personally advantageous only to him and you don’t even realize what is initially happening until you are trapped and suffocating from fear then yes you’ve been manipulated without consent which is as you say coming from a fundamentally flawed and harmful relationship.

If the submissive in question engages in manipulation and knowingly works around the system to gain advantageously i.e. break a rule without really breaking it then again as you say lacking in honesty and communication which will slowly erode the relationship until there is nothing left of it.

quote:

cheekybottom, it's good to see you back. I missed your posts. ~SteelBondager


Smiles it is nice to be missed, and thank you for sharing some positive feedback on the use of manipulation regarding both sides of the “body” or “coin” if you prefer.

~d~


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RE: Manipulation positive/negative - 8/2/2005 8:21:49 AM   
cheekybottom


Posts: 69
Joined: 5/28/2005
Status: offline 		Smiles…

~EmeraldSlave2~

Such wonder philosophy/examples illustrated here, thank you for sharing.

~d~

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: wetsub000
The second definition is where someone uses psychological means to achieve an advantage over another without their being aware of it. This would seem to go against consensual in SCC.
If taken to a certain level, or a point of ACTIVELY hiding things, I agree.

But we all manipulate situations, we all speak a certain way, we all reveal things in certain orders, our profiles were written for a specific purpose to the audience- those are all forms of manipulation.

Being able to manipulate situations shows not only an AWARENESS of the world around us, a desire to INTERACT with the world around us, taking OPPORTUNITIES as they are given to us (which is why being opportunistic tends to get a bad rap as well), and in some ways making yourself a key in the entire process of where you are in life, rather than simply letting people and situations roll you over helplessly.

Most people don't want to be in relationships with people who are incapable of manipulating things in their life. The problem comes when the manipulation is not only unconscious, but destructive to building strong relationships.


quote:

Firstly if I'm the one trying to manipulate then I have to ask myself why I need to do this with the person I'm with rather than being open and honest ie is there a fundamental flaw in the relationship.
Hmm manipulation doesn't necessary mean you aren't being open and honest. In fact being open and honest is sometimes a great way to manipulate someone :)

quote:

If I'm the one being manipulated then I think that's dishonesty on the part of the manipulater and it brings me back to: is there a fundamental flaw in the relationship?

That's a great question to ask and definitely one that SHOULD be asked. Though the answer itself is not necessarily true or false.

I think more important is the intent behind the manipulation, the motivation, rather than the manipulation itself. After all, most submissives LOVE being plied and romanced and having their heartstrings played on.



< Message edited by cheekybottom -- 8/2/2005 8:23:36 AM >

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RE: Manipulation positive/negative - 8/2/2005 8:31:40 AM   
pinkpleasures


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i'm not experienced at all and probably will not be till i'm in a committed relationship. i find myself very confused by this thread. i am having trouble understanding why a Dom or Master would need to be manipulative when all He'd need do is indicate what He wanted.

i guess i sort of understand a submissive being manipulative; but to me that seems to be a second-rate way of communicating. Why not just tell your Dom or Master what you want?

i want the sort of relationship where honesty and open communication are present. Is this rare or unlikely?

pinkpleasures

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RE: Manipulation positive/negative - 8/2/2005 8:53:58 AM   
Fidelity


Posts: 192
Joined: 8/1/2005
Status: offline 		Manipulate:

1.To treat, work, or operate with the hands, especially when knowledge and dexterity are required; to manage in hand work; to handle; as, to manipulate scientific apparatus.

2.To control the action of, by management; as, to manipulate a convention of delegates; to manipulate the stock market; also, to manage artfully or fraudulently; as, to manipulate accounts, or election returns.

3.To use the hands in dexterous operations; to do hand work; specifically, to manage the apparatus or instruments used in scientific work, or in artistic or mechanical processes; also, specifically, to use the hand in mesmeric operations.


In these definitions, we see manipulation used as a tool . Now any tool can be used for either positive or negative ends. Which outcome is evidenced, depends entirely upon the intent of the user of that tool. If the intent is to destroy,defraud or deceive-that is negative.

I enjoy analogies of structure in relation to relationships-so I will use two contrasting ones involving so simple a thing as house.

We have two builders who approach the same sort of house. Both houses are in moderately good condition before they arrive. The first builder approaches his house with the intent to take from it what short tern gain he can. He begins to systematically gut it,tears out walls floors,sells off the copper from the wiring and plumbing. He makes a few hundred dollars and leaves the place in ruins-it no longer has any value as a home. Can anyone here disagree that this builder was unwise in the application of his tools?

The second builder approaches HIS house with the attitude of it being of great value. But also with that which he feels can be improved. He paints it,remodels it,does a lovely job of landscaping the grounds. Soon, the house doubles in value. He has made a worthy investment-and his rewards are thousands of times more than the unwise builder who demolished that other,unfortunate house.

So is manipulation a bad thing?

Again, it comes down to three basics I have previously stated.

Intent.

Desire.

And persistence.

< Message edited by Fidelity -- 8/2/2005 8:55:06 AM >

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RE: Manipulation positive/negative - 8/2/2005 9:00:10 AM   
darkinshadows


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Manipulation is a wonderful tool - but done by a submissive or salve, can be extremely conter productive. A submissive/slave would use manipulation if they are seeking to control in my opinon, and that just defeats the whole point. This would be a negative action of manipulation. If the wrong workman uses the wrong tool, it becomes useless.

Manipulation is a tool. And as a tool, it takes a specitalist to use it properly. I think it was Taggard who used the sculpture reference and I completely concur.
As an artist - you can take clay and mould it. You manipulate its properties to bring around the best result of what you require. If you want something that wont shatter, then an artist might use a metal and forget clay altogether - but will still be aiming for the same end result.(If this makes sense)

Dominantion is like this. A dominant will find a submissive that can be manipulated into what he/she wants and if they can't - will move onto someone else.

Clay cannot become the cup alone, it needs manipulation to become more than what it already is.

Peace and Love

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RE: Manipulation positive/negative - 8/2/2005 9:20:40 AM   
Veav


Posts: 150
Joined: 8/1/2005
Status: offline 		"Manipulation: the art of letting someone else have your own way."

I think it's largely a question of semantics, how different people are going to parse the same term. The question was asked, what our reactions are? My 0.02 - I frown and get all sorts of dubious vibes coming from the term, because I consider it to have negative connotations. I see "maniplation" as being something like a grifter working a mark: judging their reactions and stimulating the ones most advantageous for you, whether through deceit or simple cunning. On the other hand, a lot of your responses are putting it the way I'd define "interaction": working with the elements in a scene (used in a wider sense here, not a D/S sense), basic cause-and-effect stuff.

Per dictionary definition, we all manipulate things constantly. In a relationship, or even in a D/S scene, I'd prefer to be [I]considered[/I] as interacting rather than manipulating, because I parse manipulation as a form of control through subversion and that seems awfully disrespectful to someone you're supposed to trust... either with accepting your control, or with control over you. (Naturally, YMMV.)

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RE: Manipulation positive/negative - 8/2/2005 9:35:56 AM   
cheekybottom


Posts: 69
Joined: 5/28/2005
Status: offline 		I am sorry that you find this thread confusing.

Perhaps I can clear up some areas that could possibly help an inexperienced person understand better what it is we are discussing without relying on the dictionary to decode something extraordinarily intricate as manipulation between relationship dynamics of the Dominant and submissive.

quote:

i am having trouble understanding why a Dom or Master would need to be manipulative when all He'd need do is indicate what He wanted. ~pinkpleasures


No matter the level of experience each one of us are equipped with a set of limits (even those of us who have none have limits to be a no limit sub/slave is in fact a limit) that we expect to be respected however you will come to find that a Dominant will ask you (he has indicated what he wanted) and you pause (this is not a limit for you but difficult even though you want this as much as he), he waits, now he can either punish you for disobedience (in this case discipline for slow response towards his needs) or manipulate in order to better control the situation and bring you to a place you both wish to be maybe. Conceivably even to a level in which you never thought to reach or overcome. This is not a bad thing, not in my opinion for this is apart of growth and spirituality.

quote:

i guess i sort of understand a submissive being manipulative; but to me that seems to be a second-rate way of communicating. Why not just tell your Dom or Master what you want? ~pinkpleasures


It is a second-rate way of communicating, but unfortunately this happens quite a bit. Be careful when manipulating for gain as you could possibly end up with more than you can handle or worse yet nothing at all to show for your troubles.

quote:

i want the sort of relationship where honesty and open communication are present. Is this rare or unlikely? ~pinkpleasures


Smiles it is neither rare nor unlikely.

I hope this has helped you,
~d~


_____________________________

Kiss me I'm Irish, Spank me I'm Italian.

(in reply to Fidelity)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Manipulation positive/negative - 8/2/2005 9:42:42 AM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkpleasures
i'm not experienced at all and probably will not be till i'm in a committed relationship. i find myself very confused by this thread. i am having trouble understanding why a Dom or Master would need to be manipulative when all He'd need do is indicate what He wanted.


Hmmm...interesting point.

I guess my answer would be that I demand more than simple compliance from my slave. She must not only do what I ask, she must do it in a way that satisfies my need to be served by one who is satisfied in their service. I use all of the tools at my disposal to encourage, reward, punish and discipline my slave so that their actions not only give me what I want, but make them happy as well. It is things like the use of "good girl" and the subconscious association of certain task with pain or pleasure that forms not only the slave's actions, but also their reactions...

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to pinkpleasures)
Profile   Post #: 20
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