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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

She is going to ignore facts, logic, and anything else and either accuse you of calling her names or use Anne Coulter as a source for facts.  Pointless, you couldn't convince her the world was round if Fox announced it was flat.  I wonder how old she thinks the world is and I bet she thinks evolution is a wacky theory.

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

FB- The pullout of Saudia Arabia wasn't a capitulation to Bin Laden.  Not all the troops were removed, and it was done for other reasons.  If you like, I even have an actual news link on the information.  Any troop reconfiguration or pull-out, by your reasoning could be attributed to capitulation. That's not logical nor reasonable.  

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ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

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Or even keeping under the strict Don't Ask, Don't Tell restrictions required of other homosexuals in the service of the US requiring them to avoid joint-ownership of real-estate assets with their partners?

Last one stll holding their breath by the time FB actually provides proof of that one, wins....

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

No, I'm not saying that at all. I said we haven't pulled troops out of Iraq. Like I said, parsing words. To prove what exactly?

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Are we our brothers keeper?

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Oh, you don't consider owning a house to be evidence of something to be further investigated under the tenants of DADT?

Now, that is, as I understand DADT, pretty much one of the criteria. Not engaging in an Homosexual Relationship.

Playing house together sounds pretty gay to me.

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

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ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

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Or even keeping under the strict Don't Ask, Don't Tell restrictions required of other homosexuals in the service of the US requiring them to avoid joint-ownership of real-estate assets with their partners?

Last one stll holding their breath by the time FB actually provides proof of that one, wins....

Oh, you don't consider owning a house to be evidence of something to be further investigated under the tenants of DADT?

Now, that is, as I understand DADT, pretty much one of the criteria. Not engaging in an Homosexual Relationship.

Playing house together sounds pretty gay to me.

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Well. the DoD investigators would surely take a closer look to see what's the exact story. And therein is the point. Why should Condi get a pass, that $AVERAGE_SOLDIER doesn't get? Because she's rich, and went to the right schools, and has connections?

Yeah, that's fucking fair.

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That better?

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2
No, you said she wasn't sophisticated enough. You didn't actually state any factual information.

You see a newspaper recently? The entire Iraq Fabrication happened under her Watch as the NSA, and the whole Fucked Up Occupation is happening on her watch as Secretary of State. I don't know what facts *I* need to offer given her proven incompetence.

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I'm amazed you'd be so poorly informed of current events that you would require any evidence of her incompetence.

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Why shouldn't she be held to the same standards as anyone in US Government Service?

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If you'll discriminate against a soldier for being gay, you'll discriminate against the Secretary of State for being gay.

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Since she's obviously hiding intentionally, it's sad to see her failing one of the most basic tenants of Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

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But of course, given her track record, who would expect competence from her?

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

FB- The pullout of Saudia Arabia wasn't a capitulation to Bin Laden. Not all the troops were removed, and it was done for other reasons.

Well, let's analyze this.

Bin Ladin demanded the Troops out of Saudi Arabia.

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The troops are out of Saudi Arabia.

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Spin it however you want to,

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but the straight truth is that Bush Gave Into Bin Ladin's Demands. If Bush had balls, he wouldn't have removed the troops from Saudi Arabia, SPECIFICALLY because it was one of Bin Ladin's demands.

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It is when you do it AFTER you've been threatened.

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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Guys,

She is going to ignore facts, logic, and anything else and either accuse you of calling her names or use Anne Coulter as a source for facts.  Pointless, you couldn't convince her the world was round if Fox announced it was flat.  I wonder how old she thinks the world is and I bet she thinks evolution is a wacky theory.

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  Her logic is impeccable ... if you bother to read it.

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Firstly, stop the support of Israel......put them in a situation where they have to use diplomacy to get along with their neighbours instead of being able to rely on US funded force.

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 Secondly, the middle east only has the imprtance is does to the West because of oil. So time to go to alternative sources of energy.

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Thirdly, encourage all nations to sign up to some form of universal human rights standard, and then stick to it........if your ally breaks the code they stop being your ally. In other words, occupy the moral high ground.

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Fourthly, this is not just advice for US foreign policy, it applies to all nations.

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In essence, get our noses out from where they don't belong.

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The middle east will not solve its problems by the efforts of one country alone....

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because all nations are too self interested.

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Just as in our own countries we have to abide by Law in order to co-exist, so international relations must be governed by Law.

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

FB- The pullout of Saudia Arabia wasn't a capitulation to Bin Laden. Not all the troops were removed, and it was done for other reasons.

Well, let's analyze this.

Bin Ladin demanded the Troops out of Saudi Arabia.

Actually, I believe he mentioned something about pulling the troops out of all Muslim lands. 
You can "believe" in fairies all you want but it doesn't make them real.  A major tenent of Al Queda is all infidels out of the holy land of Mecca and Saudi Arabia.  Google it and educate yourself like the rest of us.

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The troops are out of Saudi Arabia.

Not all of them.  But mostly, yes.  Do you think that's a bad thing? 

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Spin it however you want to,

Well, since I'm interested in truth and not simply in anti-American lies,  it's easy to see what really happened.

Clearly it is more difficult than you imagine

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but the straight truth is that Bush Gave Into Bin Ladin's Demands. If Bush had balls, he wouldn't have removed the troops from Saudi Arabia, SPECIFICALLY because it was one of Bin Ladin's demands.

Riiiiight.  Refrain from doing the right thing because it'd be contrary to something that Bin Laden once said.  That'd be allowing the terrorists to control us just as much as anything.  So you really believe this drivel you are spouting or are you just being bitchy?
"bitchy"?  I take it his is you being logical and having an intelligent discussion?

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It is when you do it AFTER you've been threatened.

He's been threatening us for a long time.  I look first for the real reasons for the pull out instead of the conspiracy ones.  What if Bin Laden tells us that he'll attack unless we stay out of N. Korea.  Should we then invade N Korea??

Clearly you need to keep looking, why not read something more substantial than that nut Coulter, how about Foreign Affairs or something else vetted by professionals?

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

FB- The pullout of Saudia Arabia wasn't a capitulation to Bin Laden.  Not all the troops were removed, and it was done for other reasons.  If you like, I even have an actual news link on the information.  Any troop reconfiguration or pull-out, by your reasoning could be attributed to capitulation. That's not logical nor reasonable.  

I bet troop withdrawals from Vietnam wasn't an admission of defeat either.

Hell, we Brits let you win the revolutionary war because we had an empire to build and you lot were just too damn stroppy for us to take  you along with us.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

RE: Condi's incompetence:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0326-10.htm

of course it is a slanted view, you are hardly going to find it on some rush limbaugh site............but I gotta tell you, there it is, find counterclaims if you can.

It ain't like it is just Condi, the whole fuckoree is pretty incompetent.

Like this fuckwad Brown that was head of FEMA---LOL, now he is a disaster consultant.........for the purpose of setting up and enlarging the scope of disasters or what?

Ron

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ORIGINAL: pinkme2

Thanks for the well thought out answer, Philo.

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Firstly, stop the support of Israel......put them in a situation where they have to use diplomacy to get along with their neighbours instead of being able to rely on US funded force.

A few questions relating to this one.  First: What do you think will happen once we pull our support?  Second: They share our values and type of government and have supported us as well.  Don't you think that by pulling our support, we'll be lending morale support to those that wish for their destruction?  Don't you think other allies in other areas will then mistrust us as well? (I guess that was a 2 part question.lol)

My values don't include bulldozing people's houses and then standing around bewildered why they might want to kill me.  I would take the Israelis over the arabs any day but at the same time the Jews shouldn't look at warsaw ghettos and be shocked that they people want to kill the ones wearing jack boots.

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 Secondly, the middle east only has the imprtance is does to the West because of oil. So time to go to alternative sources of energy.

You are aware that only 12 percent of the US's oil is from the ME?  We're able to do without.  Now, I realize you said "west".  Europe uses a far larger percentage of ME oil and so is more dependent.  But in all honesty, that's something for them to work out. 

Thanks for so clearly demonstrating your grasp of capitalism and how markets work, GLOBAL markets....

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Thirdly, encourage all nations to sign up to some form of universal human rights standard, and then stick to it........if your ally breaks the code they stop being your ally. In other words, occupy the moral high ground.

Well, it's called the UN, it's corrupt and Nations most likely to use inhumane treatment are on the councils overseeing others.  Signing a paper doesn't guarantee a whole lot.  The whole idea sounds good, but the reality doesn't work.  I for one do not want my Nation to give up soveriegnty to some other "World" council.  I don't want my leaders or soldiers judged by a potentially corrupt "world court".  I imagine that citizens of other nations feel the same.

First it was what you "believe" to be true and now it is your "imagination" but most countries DO believe in the ICC.  As for "Nations most likely to use inhumane treatment are on the councils overseeing others." the irony is rather funny but is obviously lost on you.

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Fourthly, this is not just advice for US foreign policy, it applies to all nations.

I like this part, even if I disagree with the others.  Often we get constantly slammed with accusations, most of which are minor compared to what happens in other nations.  I'm glad we have standards, but it becomes an American-bashing contest.  Bah.

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In essence, get our noses out from where they don't belong.

Some of your points would put our noses deep into the business of other nations.  How do you guarantee humane treatment (and who defines that?) without oversight? 

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The middle east will not solve its problems by the efforts of one country alone....

Personally I don't think the ME, Asia, Africa, or umm.. Russia can ever be less fucked up. 

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because all nations are too self interested.

As they should be.

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Just as in our own countries we have to abide by Law in order to co-exist, so international relations must be governed by Law.

But what law?  Who administers it?  That's the issue.  We get charges of corrupt law in all countries.  But somehow on an international scale it's going to be immune?  Remember the Oil for food program?  That's just one example of the UN and it's work. Other than the vaccination program, I can't think of anything the UN does well. 

Are you speaking of a need for a different organization?