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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/30/2007 7:01:23 PM   
herfacechair


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

He worked against our best interest then


Explain slowly how supporting the unlawful government of Vietnam was in the US's interest.




Before you ask me to slowly explain something to you, you need to take your time and read the post where you got that quote from.

Then take the time to address the post's theme, which is in line with the argument.

That post talked about Al-Qaeda, and how they worked on manipulating one of our weaknesses, re, the anti war movement. My mentioning Kerry illustrated the fact that he was part of the anti war movement, the movement that emboldened the North Vietnamese to continue fighting.

Your opinions about the South Vietnam government at that time is beside the point with regard to this argument.

They were corrupt, but that was better than having all of Vietnam as a communist state, with a government that’s even worse than the corrupt South Vietnamese government.

The last time I checked, the South Vietnamese didn’t want that North Vietnamese government. In case the floods of people taking to boats and escaping to sea even long after the Vietnam war ended didn’t provide people with enough hints on that.

A non communist South Vietnam was more likely to cooperate with us than the communist regime back then. THAT served in our best interest.

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/30/2007 7:05:17 PM   
herfacechair


Posts: 1046
Joined: 8/29/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkme2

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Thanks for so clearly demonstrating why you can believe that Ann Coulter is a rational human being, than Condi Rice is competent, and that we are winning in Iraq. I know you are wrong and I REALLY know I am a complete fucking moron for having wasted my time in this thread trying to inject a small dose of reality. Clearly you are impervious.


So are you giving up? *crosses fingers*

I'd so miss your ignorant, insulting and hostile tirades.


I see him wanting to move on to other threads with that statement.

He did accomplish things as far as injecting his views, I don’t see what the fuss is about. Unless . . .

If he was seriously trying to change anybody’s minds, then he definitely wasted his time. Things like this, people have to accept that the other side isn’t going to change their minds.

I know I’m not going to change my opponent’s mind!  I jump in for the sake of arguing.

(in reply to pinkme2)
Profile   Post #: 282
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/30/2007 7:36:30 PM   
EPGAH


Posts: 500
Joined: 12/25/2006
Status: offline 		Hey, hey, hey! Keep the faith, herfacechair!
Your points sound much like mine own earlier...One point you forgot to mention is that when Israel GAVE back the West Bank, the Palestinians took it as a "victory" and started DEMANDING MORE!
Obvious parallels with Hitler's Germany, of course, or the old saying, "Give them an inch, they'll take a mile" also applies here...
While I still doubt the wisdom of rebuilding WHILE WE'RE DESTROYING THEM, we still have a kill-ratio of 30-1--our favor! However, this is using the kid-gloves "restraint" forced on us by opinion worldwide--and "back home" (Americans wanting to "leave the poor Islamists alone"--until they build up strength again and reconquer Europe--and then, using the resources stolen from there, invade the US?
Imagine what we could do if we unleashed the full power of America, overt and covert...Treating the enemy prisoners the way they treat ours, utterly disregarding the rules, the same way they do! How much higher would the ratio go? How fast would previously "neutral" Moslems stop protecting their "brethren", and indeed, volunteer to point them out to us, whether because it's the Right Thing To Do(TM), or just to make sure we don't take the whole neighborhood out, since after all, we can't tell who is "good" or "bad" Islamists, taking them all out would be faster, since anyone collaborating with the terrorists must be terrorists themselves, right?
But sadly, even if we convinced all the people on this Website, none of us have the influence to do what must be done...Sadly, none of us have our own private armies, and/or our own bioweapons/robotics research labs...We can only hope to weaken the anti-war movement here, and thereby reaffirm America's faith and support of our troops.
Remember, we're fighting an enemy that is human only in FORM, not function, gladly teaching their children to hate as young as two, and that giving their lives for their "cause" is the "highest honor"! That is indeed, one messed-up pseudo-religion, and civilization of all forms would be best served by taking them out!

P.S., please remember, these are masters of media-manipulation, experts at playing the victim, and they actually WANT to be martyred en-masse...Let's make it happen!

< Message edited by EPGAH -- 10/30/2007 7:38:53 PM >

(in reply to herfacechair)
Profile   Post #: 283
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/30/2007 7:37:17 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: herfacechair

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

He worked against our best interest then


Explain slowly how supporting the unlawful government of Vietnam was in the US's interest.




Before you ask me to slowly explain something to you, you need to take your time and read the post where you got that quote from.

Then take the time to address the post's theme, which is in line with the argument.

That post talked about Al-Qaeda, and how they worked on manipulating one of our weaknesses, re, the anti war movement. My mentioning Kerry illustrated the fact that he was part of the anti war movement, the movement that emboldened the North Vietnamese to continue fighting.

Your opinions about the South Vietnam government at that time is beside the point with regard to this argument.

They were corrupt, but that was better than having all of Vietnam as a communist state, with a government that’s even worse than the corrupt South Vietnamese government.

The last time I checked, the South Vietnamese didn’t want that North Vietnamese government. In case the floods of people taking to boats and escaping to sea even long after the Vietnam war ended didn’t provide people with enough hints on that.

A non communist South Vietnam was more likely to cooperate with us than the communist regime back then. THAT served in our best interest.


But you LOST VIETNAM. The North Won, and the world didn't end.

So the entire premise of "We need to support the people disobeying the UN Mandates because they're better then what might BE ELECTED" was wrong to begin with.

The worst happened. It was less grief than the War itself. Today they're our best buddies.

And you LOST IRAQ. The Locals Won, and the world didn't end.

Al Quada doesn't give a fucking shit about US Domestic Policy. They're not opposing the US Government. They were opposing the US Troops stationed in Saudi Arabia.

Well, Bush gave in, and took those troops out, so we really have nothing to fear from Al Qaeda, as they got everything they wanted from Bush already.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to herfacechair)
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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/30/2007 7:50:46 PM   
SimplyMichael


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quote:

  Second, the reality is that if everyone in the United States was fully in support of this war, if no matter what the terrorists did in Iraq, our support for the war and the president remained strong, the insurgents would give up. PERIOD.

It’s the war dissenters back in the US, and elsewhere, that’s preventing Iraq and Afghanistan from progressing faster than they are progressing right now.


Interesting reality you live in, explains everything rather nicely. 

(in reply to herfacechair)
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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/30/2007 7:52:35 PM   
SimplyMichael


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quote:

Remember, we're fighting an enemy that is human only in FORM


Jesus, you can't even make this shit up, how do you mock these people?

(in reply to EPGAH)
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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/30/2007 8:59:32 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

Second, the reality is that if everyone in the United States was fully in support of this war, if no matter what the terrorists did in Iraq, our support for the war and the president remained strong, the insurgents would give up. PERIOD.

It’s the war dissenters back in the US, and elsewhere, that’s preventing Iraq and Afghanistan from progressing faster than they are progressing right now.


Interesting reality you live in, explains everything rather nicely.


I didn't catch that excerpt my first time around.

Hmmm.. So, the solution to 1300 years of Sunni on Shia violence is the unification of Political Ideology in the US!

Wow.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/30/2007 9:13:06 PM   
greyarcher315


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Joined: 12/7/2006
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quote:

Well, Bush gave in, and took those troops out, so we really have nothing to fear from Al Qaeda, as they got everything they wanted from Bush already.



Except they also want the US(and the world) to convert to Islam. So they don't have everything they want,  and we should worry about them.

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/30/2007 9:25:52 PM   
SimplyMichael


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Joined: 1/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: greyarcher315


quote:

Well, Bush gave in, and took those troops out, so we really have nothing to fear from Al Qaeda, as they got everything they wanted from Bush already.



Except they also want the US(and the world) to convert to Islam. So they don't have everything they want,  and we should worry about them.



Four times the combined force of the arab world marched on tiny Israel and got their asses handed to them.  Explain to me how a small band of arabs are going to conquer Israel, or perhaps Italy or something first.

(in reply to greyarcher315)
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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/30/2007 10:24:48 PM   
pinkme2


Posts: 236
Joined: 8/17/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: greyarcher315


quote:

Well, Bush gave in, and took those troops out, so we really have nothing to fear from Al Qaeda, as they got everything they wanted from Bush already.



Except they also want the US(and the world) to convert to Islam. So they don't have everything they want,  and we should worry about them.



Four times the combined force of the arab world marched on tiny Israel and got their asses handed to them.  Explain to me how a small band of arabs are going to conquer Israel, or perhaps Italy or something first.

Nukes, roadside bombs and suicidal pilots- all great equalizers!

They wage a war of attrition.  Keep at the other's side morale long enough, and hope they go home.  It's their policy in Israel, and everywhere else.  Bomb pizza places, kidnap and kill children, and watching Dems complain about the body count... and hope that they'll win by sheer endurance and patience.

If Israel truly "won", then why are they still fighting?  Bah, they were too nice to them 40 years ago. 

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/30/2007 10:38:08 PM   
SuzanneKneeling


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EPGAH
Remember, we're fighting an enemy that is human only in FORM, not function, gladly teaching their children to hate as young as two...


You seem to be doing that quite well yourself - at the squirmy grainfed tender age of, what is it now, twelve?

(in reply to EPGAH)
Profile   Post #: 291
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/30/2007 10:38:36 PM   
pinkme2


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Joined: 8/17/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkme2

Other than the vaccination program, I can't think of anything the UN does well. 

Are you speaking of a need for a different organization?


.......if necesary yes. An international organisation, probably based on some type of world court. With a mandate to arbitrate conflicts between nation states and the force to back its decisions. You see, i don't fully trust any nation not lie and cheat in its own interest.....just like individuals really.....without the framework of law there is no civilisation.
Oh,  and i'm not sure why you say the existing world court is corrupt......would you expand on that for me?

Well, any instance where you have other nations, with unknown alliances, biases and whatnot, judging your nation, perhaps unfairly or with some sort of irrational hatred or jealousy, spite... etc.  you have a situation which would breed mistrust in that organization and its ability to fairly judge others.  The world court (if I remember correctly) once was discussing charging our leaders!  I'm sure Americans are not alone in this concern.  Imagine Tibet trying to get redress in the Court, when China can bully others!  More Idealism, less reality here.

(in reply to philosophy)
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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/30/2007 10:41:21 PM   
pinkme2


Posts: 236
Joined: 8/17/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzanneKneeling

quote:

ORIGINAL: EPGAH
Remember, we're fighting an enemy that is human only in FORM, not function, gladly teaching their children to hate as young as two...


You seem to be doing that quite well yourself - at the squirmy grainfed tender age of, what is it now, twelve?

Who is he teaching to hate?

You deny that children in the ME and Africa are taught to kill and maim mostly by example but also by the influence of their leaders and fathers/imams/grandfathers?  Why ignore his point to insult him?

(in reply to SuzanneKneeling)
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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/31/2007 4:57:03 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		find a balanced site that contains these facts otherwise your invective is contemputous.

Works both ways.

Mine had her quotes.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to pinkme2)
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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/31/2007 5:00:01 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkme2

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzanneKneeling

quote:

ORIGINAL: EPGAH
Remember, we're fighting an enemy that is human only in FORM, not function, gladly teaching their children to hate as young as two...


You seem to be doing that quite well yourself - at the squirmy grainfed tender age of, what is it now, twelve?

Who is he teaching to hate?

You deny that children in the ME and Africa are taught to kill and maim mostly by example but also by the influence of their leaders and fathers/imams/grandfathers?  Why ignore his point to insult him?



The last time I was in the US there was plenty of TV shows and computer games teaching kids its OK to kill.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to pinkme2)
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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/31/2007 7:46:44 AM   
SimplyMichael


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Joined: 1/7/2007
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quote:

If Israel truly "won", then why are they still fighting?


I have finally figured out how to have fun in this thread with you Pink.  So, Israel didn't win a victory in '48, '56, '67, or '73 and their various invasions in Lebanon so say a span of nearly 60 years they haven't "won" yet eh?  So this "victory" we are looking for in Iraq, any idea how long that is going to take? 

quote:

  Bah, they were too nice to them 40 years ago.


Ah and another ugly quote you will claim was "taken out of context" although since the same thread appears over and over in your posts.  So, what is your final solution to the arab problem?

(in reply to pinkme2)
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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/31/2007 8:03:47 AM   
thoren


Posts: 6
Joined: 5/28/2007
Status: offline 		Arab probem ??????????????????????  It seems more likely tbe a problem of pedal-heads. Chat on the phone while you inhale other peoples tail pipe emmisions. Sitting n traffic congestion . Occcasionally wondering if there is an actual point to all of it . Damned little . ( aka savoring the "American way of personal freedom though the individual automobile. ) LOVE those acidic airosols from the car in front of me.!!
I'm glad I ditched my commute for early pension. Now I don't need to wonder WHY the arabs won't surrender MY oil cheaply . Even if it is under their land /s . And I can rest assured that the next lie from the media will be at the expense of the vets at my VA hospital .The ones that I wait with . The ones seldom shown by the government . "Arab problem " indeed !!
Thoren

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 297
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/31/2007 8:14:45 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		What you old farts who WERE in the military don't get is when people say "we support our troops" we ONLY mean when they are fighting for oil.  After we are done with you and your arms or legs are blown off you become welfare scum sucking at the tit of the VA or worse, homeless scum begging on the streets. 

I could be wrong but considering how the VA has seen its budget cut all during the war and the condition of places like Walter Reed says it all about how the people who have "we support the troops" bumper stickers on their cars really behave.


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Profile   Post #: 298
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/31/2007 8:48:13 AM   
philosophy


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Joined: 2/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkme2

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzanneKneeling

quote:

ORIGINAL: EPGAH
Remember, we're fighting an enemy that is human only in FORM, not function, gladly teaching their children to hate as young as two...


You seem to be doing that quite well yourself - at the squirmy grainfed tender age of, what is it now, twelve?

Who is he teaching to hate?

You deny that children in the ME and Africa are taught to kill and maim mostly by example but also by the influence of their leaders and fathers/imams/grandfathers?  Why ignore his point to insult him?



Pink, when Egpah uses lines like this "we're fighting an enemy that is human only in FORM, not function", it is hard not to see him as a hater. His invective is so extreme it is hard to take what he has to say seriously....hard or just too frightening. He represents, to me, the exact equivilant of islamic exteremism........read the language of his other posts. You and i are able to debate these issues without a) resorting to insults and b) attempting to describe all people from the third world as sub-human. Egpah is unable to refrain from either and so gets no respect from me. In essence he is a wannabe terrorist........as this quote confirms....."after all, we can't tell who is "good" or "bad" Islamists, taking them all out would be faster".

(in reply to pinkme2)
Profile   Post #: 299
RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/31/2007 8:57:18 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Philosophy,

She is the same as Egpah you just don't see it.  She has claimed might makes right any number of times and uses that as justification over and over either directly or indirectly.  She has said Israel hasn't done enough to the arabs.  She puts a prettier dress on the pig but they are both of the same cloth as Al Qaeda.

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 300
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