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RE: Abuse: A Proactive Approach To Helping The Abused - 8/4/2005 5:33:19 PM   
Fidelity


Posts: 192
Joined: 8/1/2005
Status: offline 		I speak of "fakes" because I have personally known a few subs in my day who were professional victims pink. No matter what happened, it was ALWAYS the fault of the Top. Basically, these women hopped from Dominant to Dominant playing games. And when the Doms had enough of being used and lied to-they got dismissed for it.

They were parasites.

When you see these sorts go through several well meaning Tops serially-you do get a bad attitude towards this sort. Especially when these self same "victims" who were the ACTUAL abusers then turned around and did thier very best to destroy the good names of THEIR victims.

So please don't think that it is ONLY those on the bottom who get abused in this life.

You have NOT been around long enough in the real life scenes to see the full spectrum-not by a long shot.

< Message edited by Fidelity -- 8/4/2005 5:34:01 PM >

(in reply to pinkpleasures)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Abuse: A Proactive Approach To Helping The Abused - 8/4/2005 7:50:23 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		Pink, I'm not sure you quite understand what some of us have been through dealing with fakes. I think you know me well enough to realize how compassionate I am, so maybe it would help here if I shared a slightly embarassing story of a fake I had to deal with one year ago an the ongoing reprecussions of that.

About a year ago I met a young woman online in a chatroom. She seemed nice enough at first, normal, friendly and we struck up a friendship. She was into kink and in fact wanted to be a slave, said she was 18 and when I finally got to see a picture of her she was quite cute. Naturally I was intrigued, what guy wouldn't be. As I said, at first everything about her seemed normal, nothing bizarre or strange, she seemed very bubbly, warm, friendly and sincere. We talked about lots of things, kink actually was not often a topic, it seemed like we had quite a lot of normal things in common. I had no idea I was being royally played.

After a few weeks she asked if she can call me on the phone, so I give her my number and she calls. That's when things started to get weird. Her story was that she was living with her step father who had forced her into a life of slavery after her mother had died when she was 14. I was shocked and skeptical but she was very convincing and she was asking me what she should do, she wanted out. I won't go into all the details, she told a very graphic story and the level of detail made it believeable despite how shocking it was. So I tried to give her advice, get to a shelter, call the police, something. To make a long story short she managed to keep me going for 3 months. I let myself be fooled in part because there was always enough about her story to convince me and that compassion did the rest. I kept telling myself, maybe she's lying, but if she's telling the truth she really needs somebody and I might be the only person she has. Knight in shining armor rides straight in to the jaws of the dragon.

Eventually however she told one lie too many and I caught her, confronted her and she went ballistic. She turned on me, and then tried to spread rumors about me. Fortunately the people in the chatroom knew me well enough to know the things she was saying were totally unlike me, they didn't believe her and I was lucky enough not to have my reptutation trashed. She finally went to ground and disappeared. But the story doesn't end there.

Six months later she calls me and finally comes clean. Turns out shes a bored housewife, 31, married, with two kids. It was all a lie... mostly. Some of the abuse actually did happen, when she actually was 16. She had finally sought counceling and wanted to appologize to me for what she knew she had put me through and to thank me for trying to help her. Seems she has run this scam on several and I was the only one who did not try to take advantage of her and had really cared about her. Then she got weird again, told me she was in love with me, wanted to leave her husband and come be my slave. I cut contact and blocked her number. The story still doesn't end here.

One of the things she had done that made her story believeable was send me pictures of a girl who supposedly was her, I had about 20 picture all of this one girl. I'm a decorative painter and she and I had talked about that. She said she had done a little painting too and that was one of the things we'd had in common. The remarkable thing was the girl in the pictures, in one of those pictures was painting a bedroom with a simple decorative finish... which made her story very convincing. What are the odds of someone faking that... well... apparently I hit the faker lotto. Here's the nasty part. I had deleted those photos wondering who the cute girl might have been but figuring I would never know. I come here to CM and guess what, I see a profile one day of that very same girl... different photos though. Now what do I do... write her? Hi, you don't know me but someone sent me a bunch of photos of you claiming they were you and I thought you... no that won't do. Hi... I think you're really cute, and have since... oh wait... can't mention that. Hi... is that really you in the photos or are you a fake? I'll never write to this girl, I'll never get past that doubt.

That's why so many of us who have had to deal with those faking these stories get so cautious. Even now, if I see a pretty gal in a photo on here I wonder if that's really her and I probably won't believe it til I either see her on web cam or in person. When you've been lied to like that, that suspicion is hard to just ignore. I hate its that way, I hate that I feel I have to guard myself. I'm still the same compassionate guy who sat up many nights reading poetry all night to someone very special because as long as I was there and she could hear the sound of my voice it kept the nightmares away. I still have that compassion for someone who truly needs it. But online, its hard to tell the truth from the lies.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to pinkpleasures)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Abuse: A Proactive Approach To Helping The Abused - 8/4/2005 8:03:40 PM   
Fidelity


Posts: 192
Joined: 8/1/2005
Status: offline 		This sort of crap has happened to me as well Padraig.

Which is why I never get emotionally attached, or give too much credence to people online now. Till I'm eyeball to eyeball with someone and they are in my aura-I NEVER give anything of value away.

It's damn hard to tease or decieve me in person,why would I let it happen in a place where anyone can be VIRTUALLY anything?

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Abuse: A Proactive Approach To Helping The Abused - 8/4/2005 9:05:30 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I think you know me well enough to realize how compassionate I am, so maybe it would help here if I shared a slightly embarassing story of a fake I had to deal with one year ago an the ongoing reprecussions of that.


Padriag,
I am touched by your story. I know just how hard it is to put so much of yourself into something only to find out down the road that it was not what it was represented to be. I have been in those shoes myself...actually I would have to think that most of us have at some point in our lives, to a greater or lesser degree.

I am going to play a bit of devil's advocate here though and I do hope you don't take offense as none is intended. Just as you have been made skeptical because of your dealings with dishonest people....we could certainly take the same stance here. I could have looked at what you wrote and said....sad story...but ah....is it true?...is he just looking for attention?...sympathy? Outward appearances can be deceiving right? Online anyone can say anything they want and who would be the wiser?

Now I don't believe that what you have said here is anything but the truth. I see no reason why you would fabricate such a tale. I have followed a great number of your posts now and I can say that I have somewhat of a "feel" for who you are and dishonesty would certainly not be a part of the impression that I have of you to date. So based upon the knowledge I have of you, combined with the instinctual gut feeling that I got when I read your post...I have absolutely no reason to believe that anything you have written there is anything other than the sharing of an experience and thoughts from your heart.

I share alot of myself here on these boards. I do so from my heart also....and the hope that something I may say may make a difference in the life of another. Now I am absolutely sure that there are people who read my posts and think that I am entirely full of shit. That's ok though....they're not the ones I am trying to reach. I have encountered the naysayers....but what does one do to prove oneself in a medium such as this other than just being yourself? Over time the truth becomes evident right?

Sure there are people on these boards that know me in real life who I am certain would stand up and vouch for me and assure everyone that I am who I say....but who would believe them?....after all they are just more screenames on a message board. I could give out my ex Master's prisoner id number to someone who doesn't believe me and they could write to him themself and ask what the truth really was...and I am confident he would tell them. They could then come back here and post that it was all on the up and up. But who would believe them?

The reality is that sometimes we just have to go with our gut and take a chance. Yes there are liars and fakers and posers at every turn it seems....but there are also real, honest people out there too who sometimes just need a bit of help or a place to vent or someone who will listen. It is very unfortunate that there are those whose dishonesty have left some so jaded and skeptical. For me though, it doesn't change much...especially in this medium...for even if the person who I am responding to is a total fake....maybe....just maybe....my words will reach one who isn't.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Abuse: A Proactive Approach To Helping The Abused - 8/4/2005 9:33:27 PM   
luvdragonx


Posts: 388
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		Okay, I have got to ask this question because in all the discussion/debate over this topic, I've never seen this question raised.

Are there any people here that feel they are in abusive situations, but aren't getting the support they feel they need?

_____________________________

Never Without Love

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Abuse: A Proactive Approach To Helping The Abused - 8/4/2005 10:29:04 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I am going to play a bit of devil's advocate here though and I do hope you don't take offense as none is intended. Just as you have been made skeptical because of your dealings with dishonest people....we could certainly take the same stance here. I could have looked at what you wrote and said....sad story...but ah....is it true?...is he just looking for attention?...sympathy? Outward appearances can be deceiving right? Online anyone can say anything they want and who would be the wiser?

No offense taken, I knew when I posted that it was probably going to get debated. I still find it embarassing because I feel like an idiot for having let myself believe she was telling the truth. But, an this is what did me in, I've got a heart the size of the moon and my compassion got the better of me. In some ways you make my point though, we are online and anyone here can say pretty much anything. Sometimes they even have convincing photos to go with it. Part of why I did post that story was because I know Pink well enough at this point to know she's got a big heart too, as do others. She cares and she wants to help people and I admire that about her. Problem is online that big heart can be a liability... as I learned the hard way. There are people online who prey on people like me with big hearts, they know its a button they can push to get sympathy, attention, affection, something... and they push it for all its worth. I think part of the tension in the debate over this is that one side, those advocating for victims, haven't entirely understood why others have been so guarded and skeptical. If my story helps bridge that and create a better understanding, then it was worth the embarassment of posting it.

quote:

Now I don't believe that what you have said here is anything but the truth.

Thanks, I do appreciate that.

quote:

Over time the truth becomes evident right?

You would hope so... its amazing how long they can keep you going though. The lengths some people online go to with their lies amazes me. I can't help but think if they put that much energy into real relationships they'd have something great.

quote:

The reality is that sometimes we just have to go with our gut and take a chance. Yes there are liars and fakers and posers at every turn it seems....but there are also real, honest people out there too who sometimes just need a bit of help or a place to vent or someone who will listen. It is very unfortunate that there are those whose dishonesty have left some so jaded and skeptical. For me though, it doesn't change much...especially in this medium...for even if the person who I am responding to is a total fake....maybe....just maybe....my words will reach one who isn't.

This is true, sometimes you have to step out there anyway. But it gets harder when you've been lied to. I can understand very much what Fidelity was saying previously. He had a good point about the fact that, online at least, all we can really do is offer practical advice. You can't physically help these people, all you can do is encourage them to seek help, call the police, get to a shelter... but don't sit there taking the abuse anymore. If they won't take that advice, there's nothing more we can do for them, and like Fidelity I too get very skeptical when they repeatedly cry victim but never take any of the advice offered.

Still there have been some here who've asked me for advice, not about abuse, but about various things and I've offered what help I could. Most of them have been very nice about it and said thank you. One person, Slutsub, even went so far as to post a public thank you which really made my day. Those are the ones that keep me going inspite of the ones who never say thank you. I won't mention names but there was one I offered sympathy to and publicly defended, she never bothered to say thank you or even acknowledge anyone had been supportive. People like that can make you wonder why you bother.

I guess what a lot of us are struggling with, myself included, is where is the balance between trying to help folks who need it and not leaving yourself so vulnerable to all the assholes who will take advantage of that. I suppose in a way we're all searching for a way to separate the wheat from the chaff as Fidelity put it... looking for a way to tell the liars apart from those that are sincere... not just with cases of abuse, but with everyone we meet online.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Abuse: A Proactive Approach To Helping The Abused - 8/5/2005 4:19:14 AM   
ElektraUkM


Posts: 309
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline 		Sorry to hear about your experience with an online faker, Padriag. A similar kind of thing happened to me a few years ago (I'd forgotten about it till I read that story of yours) and I remember being completely shocked that someone would make up an entire identity, and even other 'friends' and so on that I had mobile numbers for... all made up..?? LOL... well that was when I was new to the internet... (he wasn't faking abuse, just an entire life ~ but I remember now, part of what hurt me most was how he lied and said he'd recently lost his father, and I was going through the same thing at the time... and finding out all those conversations were based on him lying about something he had never experienced was just not nice).

Even so, the shock and hurt of that was over pretty soon, leaving me with a 'wiser' head about trusting people online. Unless I've seen people on cam or better still met them (!) I will take a lot of what I read with a pinch of salt. It's sad, but it doesn't really affect my life.

Not so with an abusive relationship. The shock and hurt, the lack of trust, and many other effects are much deeper. The realisation that someone can be that fake about their feelings for you, about their intentions, about the level of contempt they harbour, their petty desire to hurt and damage everything you are and own, while maintaining day after day that they love you... the list just goes on. To be taken in like that in real life is another level of horror.

Now I know I'm somewhat confusing the issue here, comparing online to real life, and being taken in by a 'fake' abused person, to being abused. But yours is the only story we've heard (I think) which deals with the hurt and harm that a faker has dealt to someone trying to help. In your case I think the hurt was more to do with the other lies she told (forgive me if I'm wrong). I would be interested to hear other people talk of how they were mentally or physically damaged by people in real life pretending to have been abused.

I know it could ruffle a few feathers (and that's not my intention), but I would say to any person thinking about getting involved with someone who's got a history of abuse... think long and hard, and only get involved if you're certain that person has already dealt with what's happened to them. Don't be a rescuer. In my mind it's akin to jumping into a raging torrent to rescue someone drowning... there are probably 'hero' stories, but most would-be heroes in that situation drown. And going blaming the resulting disaster on the drowning person is just not seeing the error of your own judgement.

What I'm saying is (and this isn't aimed at anyone in particular, just my POV at the moment without having heard enough 'i was taken in by a faker and it ruined my life' stories, probably), that if you've been hurt by a faker, you were probably getting too involved with someone you didn't know enough about or couldn't really have handled if they actually were an un-healed abused person. Why did you get involved with them to such a level? How did they abuse your goodwill? Are these mainly online issues or did these people feck up your real life too? and how? As I've said, I'd be interested to hear stories that might change my mind on that.

To my mind, it's abused people themselves who suffer the most from fakers, for reasons already stated by others. But strangely enough I read most 'shock horror there are fakers!' opinions not from those likely to suffer from their cries of wolf, but from people worried about being 'taken in' by them.

~ Elektra

< Message edited by ElektraUkM -- 8/5/2005 4:30:12 AM >

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Abuse: A Proactive Approach To Helping The Abused - 8/5/2005 5:51:22 AM   
pinkpleasures


Posts: 1114
Status: offline
O Padriag; i'm so sorry. What a horrible experience for You. i've known other Doms who've been lied to, but not to this extent. And of course, i've been lied to repeatedly; so much so that i rarely trust P/pl unless i meet T/them in real life. Three times that i can remember, i've met Doms my age or older in such distress (mostly legal) that i was forced to say good bye. i cannot rescue P/pl anymore...my body simply will not tolerate the stress. i can advise on what to do about A Problem, but if their lives are completely falling apart to the point where i don't even know where to begin, i have to say good bye. It feels terrible, but i cannot help. i am unable to tolerate the stress. i do not think the Doms are lying to me, but it matters not.

i used to hang out in the Lobby (the major chatroom here on CM) with the nick "shyster" and i'd get PM'd all the time by Doms (i cannot remember any woman doing this) asking me for legal advice about situations that i though bordered on fantasy. It was one reason i changed my nick and openly refused to give any more legal advice in the Room; told P/pl to email me -- which of course nobody ever did.

i can understand being in Your 20's and maybe driving without insurance or even getting a DUI and having it turn Your life upside down. It's a bit harder to accept that Your life is way out of control in Your 40's or 50's. Plus, You simply cannot hire a woman as a lawyer and then turn around and dominate her -- if You don't follow her legal advice, what use is it to hire her? And if she's trying to put Your life back on track, what use is it to try and dominate her?

i never want to practice law again. Only a threat to my kid or someone i loved would make me do it, and i'd have to get my licenses out of hock. i hate the way i feel when i am even doing research and i'd be so unhappy litigating again. i'd try my best to find another lawyer for my loved ones. i suppose i'm meandering.

i have no advice for A/anyone on trusting P/pl over the net. i trust Padriag, though i doubt we'll ever meet. i have several Dom and Master friends that i trust but never expect to meet. They don't want anything from me except my time and well-being. They give much more than They take, and i adore Them. They are great Men and They reassure me that such Men exist and are on-site.

To Padriag and other Doms and Masters, i suggest this: volunteer in Your communities for battered women (and men) in some capacity...and decline to "rescue" women online here or elsewhere online. i think both the submissive or slave and the Dom or Master need to have their s**t together to be ready for a D/s or M/s relationship...including having dealt effectively with an abuser and put it behind her at least in terms of safety.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 8/5/2005 5:54:31 AM >

_____________________________



(in reply to ElektraUkM)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Abuse: A Proactive Approach To Helping The Abused - 8/5/2005 8:06:17 AM   
subcheryl


Posts: 280
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline 		Oh how I wish that I would have had someone who gave a rats a** about me and my boys while I was living a 16 year marriage of mental and emotional abuse. No one ever really said anything of what they saw going on in my life, until I finally came to the point of push and shove. My husband of 16 yrs was very good at the emotional and mental abuse. And for some of us, we are so busy trying to care for our children that in the first person we don't see what is taking place. If someone had said something during that time I would have watched so much better and perhaps have gotten out alot sooner. But as it was when I left with my boys, all I heard was, "Well I was wondering when you were going to wake up to what was going on." type of statements. And I wonder why they never said what they saw. Sometimes a woman is too buried in living that she just doesn't see the problem. I worked a fulltime job, came home, did the cooking, cleaning, scouting with the boys, laundry, gardening, raising animals for meat, helped to take care of a dying father, and mother-in-law, plus try to be me at the same time, my mind was telling me I was being a proper wife, and mom. But in reality he was using me as a sugar momma, he never worked a day in the yrs that we were married, again I put this down to his disabilities, learning, a replaced hip, and hearing loss. He had a Dr Jykle, Mr hyde type of temperment that I didn't see until just before I left him, We were arguing so bad his face was actually red, the kids came and said aunti and uncle are here, and bam just like that he was sitting at the table with a cup of coffee and cig as if nothing happened the only reason anyone knew something was going on was cause I was still angry.
Than there was a time on a yahoo chat line I was on that a young woman came to me telling me how terrible things were for her, she shared the fact she felt suicidal and such things, she had a little one, her sister was trying to take her boyfriend away. And so on. I tried to get her to go see her dr. to go to a shelter get some kind of help. Well one day her "sister" came on line and said that the girl tried to committ suicide, than she said she died, and that she was taking the baby back to her mom and dad. I felt terrible, I felt as if I had failed her. I even cried for her. See my heart and sole is esp found of young people and I just want to help them all. I see the terrible mess that their lives are in, and want to help them out. But yes now unless I am working with them face to face I try not to get involved. It hurts not knowing if you are being played or if you are actually helping in case of the young woman who supposedly committed suicide, toward the end of the chatting with the "sister" it appeared to be the first young woman I was talking to. But so disjointed. I just broke contact with who ever it was with a very heavy heart but emotionally it was just too much for me not to be there physically to help where I could. and the uncertainty of if it was the truth or a lie who knows

In my husbands case since I left him and his death, I have learned so much about myself. I am able to take care of me and my boys and we always seemed to have a little money left over after a pay day which we never had with my husband, I also had an IQ test done and have since found out that I am in the upper levels of average almost to genuis. What a shot in the arm, I have to really pay attention to things now, have learned to think different, and when the boys try pulling one of the things that their dad did, like talk to me like I was stupid, I tell them I am not stupid and that I think different than they do, they didn't even know that they did it, now they say, "Mom not to make it sound like you are stupid, but this is how I see x=z." LOL we can now talk normal to each other but they had to learn different behaviors and I am learning different behaviors. And our relationships are getting so much better, which I am forever happy for. I realize that people are afraid to say something for fear of stepping in where they don't belong, but sometime a gently place question is all that it takes to help them see what is going on in their lives, and just being there on the fringes so they know that you are there can make the difference in whether someone leaves a bad relationship or not. LOL it took also my sister, who has multiple learnign disabilites, being bold like she often is and telling me of husband threatening to hit my oldest with a case iron frying pan and her stepping in between the two of them, that started to open my eyes somewhat to what was going on. Sorry for the ramble, am not thinking all that clear yet as it is early in am, but read this post and had to try and share from my perspective things. I feel if we let those who use and abuse us keep us down and don't try to do anything to fix it, like reaching out again to others the abuser has won, and I won't let him win.

(in reply to pinkpleasures)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Abuse: A Proactive Approach To Helping The Abused - 8/5/2005 12:49:11 PM   
zaynab


Posts: 377
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline 		For everyone who has had someone with an identity facade... it happens in real life too. Not just on the internet. One of the ex's from my ex-husband collection had many different identities.... took me a long time to figure that all out, plus had to get rid of denial, etc. but what this man had going on... was very impressive indeed.

It was kind of fun to contact some of the people who knew him as someone else and tell them who he really was. Not to shock them, but just to ruin his little game a bit. I don't like deception.

(in reply to Fidelity)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Abuse: A Proactive Approach To Helping The Abused - 8/5/2005 6:09:01 PM   
Rubyb


Posts: 73
Joined: 6/27/2005
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fidelity

Here's the trick to do the winnowing of the chaff from the grain. Suggest PRACTICAL and realistic things that people CAN enact to solve problems-if it never happens.......It usually means that they don't WANT to.


I respectfully disagree.

If a man or woman is being abused - and I don't mean of the drama king/queen whining variety that is really being inconvienced and wants attention - that person is living in fear. Reason and fear don't always mix.

It's easy to makes suggestions for someone else. And that person may even agree with the actions. However, when fear takes over, those actions may not occur.
Is the person any less abused because they were afraid to act?
I don't think so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Riotgirl

...the abuse that no one sees, is quite honestly the thing i am most afraid of. The mental, emotional and psychological abuse. Personally i think its the most damaging.


Well said. Thank you for post. Veav, you, too. It helps for everyone to remember that abuse is not limited to one sex.

While the original intent of the essay is summed up repeatedly:

The biggest Abusers are right here among us! Abuse of the term "Abuse" only ends up Abusing the truly Abused.

It is not for me to judge who has or hasn't been abused.
However, it is for me to "not cry wolf" or "that the sky if falling" if those things are untrue.

PinkPleasures and Shy (Slavesdesires), I would hope that anyone reading your posts who was even thinking about leaving an abusive relationship would be given a bit of hope that there is help out there waiting.

In the USA, that National Domestic Violence Hotline Website provides excellent resources whether you are the support person or just wanting to validate your situation. http://www.ndvh.org/educate/abuse_quiz.html contains a quiz that can help.


Note: Safety Alert from their website

Computer use can be monitored and is impossible to completely clear. If you are afraid your internet and/or computer usage might be monitored, please use a safer computer, call your local hotline, and/or call the National Domestic Violence Hotline.
1-800-799-SAFE (7233)
1-800-787-3224 (TTY)

< Message edited by Rubyb -- 8/5/2005 6:15:37 PM >

_____________________________

Ruby Bloodstone
Author and fan of erotic vampire fiction.
Lifemate and pet to T, Nathaniel's Miss

Ruby's portfolio at writing.com:
http://Writing.Com/authors/rubyb

(in reply to Fidelity)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Abuse: A Proactive Approach To Helping The Abused - 8/5/2005 6:14:04 PM   
Rubyb


Posts: 73
Joined: 6/27/2005
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subcheryl

I feel if we let those who use and abuse us keep us down and don't try to do anything to fix it, like reaching out again to others the abuser has won, and I won't let him win.


Now that's a great attitude. Go you! Congratulations on the progress you've made. Hoping and praying that you can break the cycle for you, your children and others.

Ruby

(in reply to subcheryl)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Abuse: A Proactive Approach To Helping The Abused - 8/5/2005 7:09:25 PM   
pinkpleasures


Posts: 1114
Status: offline
There's no easy answer....what subcheryl reminds us all of is that to begin with, the woman must awaken and realise she is being abused. That sometimes takes decades. As i have said, sometimes only the fear of imminent death or danger to her children will rock her enough to awaken her. An abuser has performed physical, mental, emotional and other kinds of abuse on her; partially because he gets off on it; and partially to be sure no one upsets his applecart -- most especially her. i looked at some of my clients with long-standing abuse and wondered; did they not get colds? And need to disrobe a bit for the MD? What the f**k stopped the MD from asking "who is hitting you?" NOTHING else looks like the bruise left by a closed fist...even better if he is wearing rings.

i was determined to offer such women at LEAST a place, an hour, where they were people with dignity and were safe. They never told me everything at once...and not ONE decided to move on my advice at the first meeting. They were courageous, intelligent, amazing women and it was my pleasure to help them.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 8/5/2005 7:10:24 PM >

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(in reply to Rubyb)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Abuse: A Proactive Approach To Helping The Abused - 8/5/2005 10:37:58 PM   
GentleLady


Posts: 356
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Gentle Lady...You have made me feel stupid and wrong for ever speaking about abuse...as though my experience was worthless and sharing it was somehow harmful. i do not know what to say. My intentions were to help..i don't think anyone believes otherwise. The thought that i have harmed anyone suffering abuse is like a knife in my heart. i regret anything i said that was hurtful to anyone.

pinkpleasures

pinkpleasures

My intention was never to make you feel stupid or wrong. You have done nothing to deserve feeling that way. My only intention was to show you that you were perhaps seeing things from one perspective only and that there are other equally valid perspectives. A lawyer sees one side of the problem and knows how to deal with that side. A social worker sees another side and has different skills to bring to the problem. Someone working in a shelter views things from another perspective and may have her skills limited by the rules of the shelter (Shelters often have to agree to abide by certain regulations in order to qualify for funding). A woman who has successfully left an abusive relationship views things differently then one who is still trapped inside it. No perspective is more right then any other.

Your posts struck Me as coming from only one perspective and seemed in imply that only that perspective existed. No offense was meant by what I said. NO experience is worthless and sharing one's experiences is a way to learn other perspectives and new knowledge so better opinions can be formed. My deepest apologies to you if I have offended.

Gentle Lady

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All things are possible to those who have patience, try, and are willing to learn.

(in reply to pinkpleasures)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Abuse: A Proactive Approach To Helping The Abused - 8/5/2005 10:45:13 PM   
GentleLady


Posts: 356
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I guess what a lot of us are struggling with, myself included, is where is the balance between trying to help folks who need it and not leaving yourself so vulnerable to all the assholes who will take advantage of that. I suppose in a way we're all searching for a way to separate the wheat from the chaff as Fidelity put it... looking for a way to tell the liars apart from those that are sincere... not just with cases of abuse, but with everyone we meet online.

Roundly seconds this point.

I have a character defect. I tend to believe the best of people and can be quite naive at times. I have been fooled just as often in real life as on-line so I have learned to be very cautious. I would like to think that I have become less naive as the years pass though.

Gentle Lady

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All things are possible to those who have patience, try, and are willing to learn.

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Abuse: A Proactive Approach To Helping The Abused - 8/5/2005 10:54:00 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		I’ve lost count of the rescue missions I have been involved in to get an endangered woman out of a house and away from a violent partner. Since retiring from active service, I’ve had numerous cases on my books as a counsellor dealing with abuse and specifically victims of assault where either blades or guns were involved. Far too often I’ve seen victims attempt suicide before help could intervene. I do thank the powers that be that we have good laws covering this here. Kids are always the heart breaking ones to deal with too. One case I can mention which is interesting, involves a husband who kept moving from room to room to put space between himself and his wife following a nasty argument. She can into his den and as he stood up his shoulder hit a shelf full of books. The shelf went flying and hit the woman. She called the police and after the matter was investigated and it was proven that the woman had been harassing her husband with verbal abuse, he was asked if he wanted to charge her with assault. It was shown that the courts accept that a nagging tongue (belonging to either sex) can be classed as criminal abuse. This is why one of the things I do is teach communication skills to those clients who need it.

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Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to pinkpleasures)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Abuse: A Proactive Approach To Helping The Abused - 8/5/2005 11:00:05 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GentleLady


I have a character defect. I tend to believe the best of people and can be quite naive at times. I have been fooled just as often in real life as on-line so I have learned to be very cautious. I would like to think that I have become less naive as the years pass though.

Gentle Lady


Bravo Gentle Lady. My hat is off to you. I too have a penchant for believing, or at the very least, wanting to believe the best of people. Even after all these years and the hurts I have sustained, I still start people off with 100 browney points and it is hard for have any deducted. You realy have to be a nasty person for me to truly think less of you..... Please never lose this outlook of yours it is indeed a rare gift in today's society.


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to GentleLady)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Abuse: A Proactive Approach To Helping The Abused - 8/5/2005 11:20:20 PM   
GentleLady


Posts: 356
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I would be interested to hear other people talk of how they were mentally or physically damaged by people in real life pretending to have been abused.

Many years ago after My divorce I met a man. We dated and semi-lived together over the next year before getting married. One of the things we spent a lot of time talking about was abuse because I was just starting to recover from the previous abusive marriage. I was in counselling and working hard on Myself. He had many many stories to share with Me about his previous abusive marriage. He had details that people who have been abused would identify with. He could describe how it felt to be on the receiving end.

There were red flags in the relationship but I was still so unsure of Myself that I was not trusting My gut. Over a year after the wedding things suddenly exploded. He worked out of town 3 weeks with 2 weeks home and one day he came home a different man. The next morning he exploded in rage that had My clothes torn from the closet and him approaching Me with a clenched fist threatening to treat Me the way My ex-husband had if that was what it took to make Me behave like a 'proper' wife. (Side note: The trigger turned out to be the fact that I was not wearing the clothes he had fantasized Me wearing when he walked in the door).

So much for all his stories of being abused....he was the abuser himself and knew exactly what to say and do to con Me. The up side to this is that it taught Me some valuable lessons about trusting My instincts. It also showed Me how much progress I had made in overcoming My previous abuse. I knew what to do and did not hesitate this time.

Gentle Lady

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All things are possible to those who have patience, try, and are willing to learn.

(in reply to ElektraUkM)
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RE: Abuse: A Proactive Approach To Helping The Abused - 8/5/2005 11:51:13 PM   
CalliopePurple


Posts: 2539
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: SeaTac area
Status: offline 		Count me as the third person in this thread to admit to being perhaps a little too idealistic and preferring to think the best of people whenever possible. I forgive easily, but I never forget.

On the flip side of that, once a person has done something to make me distrust them, it's very hard to earn that back.

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Kimi ni aitakute dare yori mo aitakute
hajimete kimi ni atta hoshizora no shita de.
Kimi ni tsutaetai todokanai omoi demo
boku no kokoro wa mada kimi o sagashiteiru.

Gackt - Kimi ni Aitakute

(in reply to GentleLady)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Abuse: A Proactive Approach To Helping The Abused - 8/6/2005 7:03:02 AM   
pinkpleasures


Posts: 1114
Status: offline
Well, lemme add this. Perhaps not as true for men..but for women. No matter what your education, employment, prior experience, etc, NO WOMAN is immune from abuse. If yr a bit more difficult to "capture" all it means is that it takes a bit more sophisticated man to do it...who do you think was abusing the professional women i represented?

pinkpleasures

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(in reply to CalliopePurple)
Profile   Post #: 40
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