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RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ - 10/28/2007 11:01:49 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheMsScarlet

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
So have I. I had enough of class snobbery when I lived in Britain which is why I chose to live abroad and bring my eldest daughter up in a more eqalitarian society where she wouldn't be penalized because of her accent or where she came from.


The bizarre thing about British snoobery is that it works in two directions, those above sneer at those below whilst those below sneer upwards.  In other countries people see education and the gaining of skills as things to achieve, they consider buying a nice home and driving a good car something to aspire to.  In Britain they'd key your car, smash your windows and rather live in a cave than admit that they have the same educational opportunities as those that manage to succeed in life yet pissed it all down the drain rather than be seen as raising themselves above their peers.   It never fails to amaze me. 



The stats are against you when it comes to equal education opportunities and Britain doesn't perform as well as other western European countries. Oxbridge roots out many possible students from the lower social stratas with their social interveiws and this I have first hand knowledge of. My cousin who is the same generation as me had five grade A 'a levels' when five was some achievement and was refused by both Oxford and Cambridge on the grounds of the social interview. He ended up with a first at Stirling and later a MSc at London. The stats have not improved much at Oxbridge for subsequent generations in accepting 'lower classes' with similar education levels as middleclass students. British education is as good as any for those who gain access but it fails the country as a whole and does not perform as well as other comparable countries. One suspects because class discrimination and the lack of equal opportunities.

I don't know why you introduced keying cars into the discussion other than to fog the issue. But if you want to discuss delinquency I worked in the London Probation service for ten years and I can tell you the courts also discriminate between the middleclasses and workingclasses. The amount of times I've seen middleclass delinquents get a slapped wrist because they came from a 'good home' and those that suffered more servere penalties because one assumes they came from 'bad homes' beggars belief. 

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 10/28/2007 11:02:48 AM >

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RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ - 10/28/2007 11:05:35 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheMsScarlet

In other countries people see education and the gaining of skills as things to achieve, they consider buying a nice home and driving a good car something to aspire to. 



One thing that all Englishman/women share is the desire to own a home with a garden: where else in the world would you hear it seriously argued that living in flats causes riots? 

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RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ - 10/28/2007 11:32:25 AM   
seeksfemslave


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quote:
The people of England are never so happy as when you tell them they are ruined.
Arthur Murray.


Wasnt Arthur a dance teacher ?
Sure it wasnt Ed Murrow ? 
Bet no bugga knows 'oo 'e is.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 10/28/2007 11:34:00 AM >

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RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ - 10/28/2007 12:18:19 PM   
TheMsScarlet


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From: London - Bristol - Surrey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheMsScarlet

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Her quote as far as I am concerned is total shite.


So nice to see that you're offering us all an alternative pov by demonstrating the polite and enlightened attitudes available outside of London.  It's lovely to watch you research the subject, check back to the original context of the snipped quote made by NG, and then address the points logically and with reason.  No doubt you are celebrated everywhere for your ability to raise the tone of debates with your errudition. 



MsScarlett, the intention isn't/wasn't to pull your post to pieces. Of course there's some truth in what you say. It's an interesting topic of conversation all the same, and with a bit of time to kill etc.....'thought it would make a decent thread.


I don't believe I mentioned your pulling my post to pieces, merely that you quoted it out of context. 


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RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ - 10/28/2007 12:37:53 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheMsScarlet

I don't believe I mentioned your pulling my post to pieces, merely that you quoted it out of context. 



http://www.collarchat.com/m_1366542/mpage_2/tm.htm

Post 36: I've had another look, and there's nothing on this thread that is out of context.

Let's not go down the road of semantics, is there anything in the OP that you'd like to respond to?

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RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ - 10/28/2007 12:47:38 PM   
meatcleaver


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Status: offline 		Now I've read this I'm laughing my head off.
 
Technically I suppose I'm British, that is what it says in at least one of my passports, but I hate to be thought of as one.  I look at my fellow Brits and feel ashamed of their bigotry, xenophobia, agression and overall behaviour.  When I travel abroad I blend in, I learn the local ways and languages, eat the local food, and avoid the Brits wherever possible.  The thought that they will go abroad to complain about the food, the weather, the Germans, the locals, the beer - it disgusts me.  En masse, at their lowest level, they're a bunch of petty, whining idiots with whom I would rather not associate.  At their best they're just about tolerable. 

Why don't you just get another passport if that is how you feel, like a German passport or an Israeli passport, both are possible, then you won't hjave to be ashamed of being British and despising your fellow countrymen or those fellow passport holders that so disgust you. Since you know English so well, you must understand this, why don't you just fuck off? After all, you hate us so much.

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RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ - 10/28/2007 12:49:36 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Sure it wasnt Ed Murrow ?  Bet no bugga knows 'oo 'e is.


This is London.... Good night, and good luck.

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RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ - 10/28/2007 12:51:54 PM   
LadyEllen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Now I've read this I'm laughing my head off.
 
Technically I suppose I'm British, that is what it says in at least one of my passports, but I hate to be thought of as one.  I look at my fellow Brits and feel ashamed of their bigotry, xenophobia, agression and overall behaviour.  When I travel abroad I blend in, I learn the local ways and languages, eat the local food, and avoid the Brits wherever possible.  The thought that they will go abroad to complain about the food, the weather, the Germans, the locals, the beer - it disgusts me.  En masse, at their lowest level, they're a bunch of petty, whining idiots with whom I would rather not associate.  At their best they're just about tolerable. 

Why don't you just get another passport if that is how you feel, like a German passport or an Israeli passport, both are possible, then you won't hjave to be ashamed of being British and despising your fellow countrymen or those fellow passport holders that so disgust you. Since you know English so well, you must understand this, why don't you just fuck off? After all, you hate us so much.


You know? I feel exactly the same way as MsScarlet, and I shall be "fucking off" just as soon as I can.

E

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RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ - 10/28/2007 12:56:22 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Now I've read this I'm laughing my head off.
 
Technically I suppose I'm British, that is what it says in at least one of my passports, but I hate to be thought of as one.  I look at my fellow Brits and feel ashamed of their bigotry, xenophobia, agression and overall behaviour.  When I travel abroad I blend in, I learn the local ways and languages, eat the local food, and avoid the Brits wherever possible.  The thought that they will go abroad to complain about the food, the weather, the Germans, the locals, the beer - it disgusts me.  En masse, at their lowest level, they're a bunch of petty, whining idiots with whom I would rather not associate.  At their best they're just about tolerable. 

Why don't you just get another passport if that is how you feel, like a German passport or an Israeli passport, both are possible, then you won't hjave to be ashamed of being British and despising your fellow countrymen or those fellow passport holders that so disgust you. Since you know English so well, you must understand this, why don't you just fuck off? After all, you hate us so much.


You know? I feel exactly the same way as MsScarlet, and I shall be "fucking off" just as soon as I can.

E


After having my rants at Britain, in Britain's defence, most other countries have similar problems with their youth and anyone that thinks otherwise as far as I'm concerned, has never lived in another country or is so blind to their problems. The reason I don't live in Britain is that I could waste my life getting angry at it but when I'm in another country I have no ownership of their problems so its all water off a ducks back.

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RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ - 10/28/2007 1:09:02 PM   
Pernicious


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Status: offline 		Ooooo them tourists I hate em. They want to eat fucking fish and chips on holiday instead of eating escargot etc. Why can’t they realise that when in Rome you have to kill a Roman in an amphitheatre? Also they all go to them beaches, harass the locals to get their 1 sq metre of sand to lay on like beached whales all day rather than go and visit historic monuments. Damn fucking tourists for doing what makes them happy on holiday rather than someone else’s idea of what they should do.

Look up, look up the horse is so high I can only see the gigantic phallus looming from its gaunt underbelly rather than the person riding it.

(edited for fontial reasons)

< Message edited by Pernicious -- 10/28/2007 1:10:21 PM >

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RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ - 10/28/2007 1:11:25 PM   
LadyEllen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

After having my rants at Britain, in Britain's defence, most other countries have similar problems with their youth and anyone that thinks otherwise as far as I'm concerned, has never lived in another country or is so blind to their problems. The reason I don't live in Britain is that I could waste my life getting angry at it but when I'm in another country I have no ownership of their problems so its all water off a ducks back.


Thats the key MC - to not care a jot about the hell we're headed towards, nor the colour of the handbasket we're travelling in. Because, not one of us can do a damned thing about it but get excited over it. Best to ignore the rest, just look after ourselves and our own, and where we can, do the neo-Brit thing, based on the ignorance and stupidity of those around us, and rip them off left right and centre, get some cash together and go live elsewhere.

Sadly though, this is the attitude which has got us to where we are and is leading us on to where we're going. We have given up. We are a defeated nation. And how much does that suit those who want us to acquiesce?

E

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RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ - 10/28/2007 1:23:11 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pernicious

Damn fucking tourists for doing what makes them happy on holiday rather than someone else’s idea of what they should do.



'Nail on the head.......they're having a right old time. They're not interested in hassling the locals, they just want to take a small part of English youth culture with them to a place where there's a fair amount of sun. They're not moaning about anything because they're too busy fuckin', drinkin' and dancin', and half the time probably don't realise which country they're in, nor care....all they know is that it's a place with sun, women, and clubs open 'til 7 in the morning.

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I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ - 10/28/2007 1:25:02 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Sadly though, this is the attitude which has got us to where we are and is leading us on to where we're going. We have given up. We are a defeated nation. And how much does that suit those who want us to acquiesce?

E


My ex, who is not British, loves Britain and lives there and says she could not think of a better place to live despite all its problems and finds it a very welcoming place and her being foreign has never given her a problem. As for being xenophobic (she is half French) she thinks the French are the most arrogant and xenophobic nation in Europe and she has been around a country or two. It is also a damn sight easier to get residence in Britain than any other European country, add the US, Canada and Australia to that list. She wrote to the home office giving her status and got a letter back giving her residence for life. She bitches at me when I complain about Britain.

EDIT She bitches about the French because despite her being half French and fluent in French without a hint of an accent, the French consider her foreign.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 10/28/2007 1:29:22 PM >

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RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ - 10/28/2007 1:29:20 PM   
Pernicious


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Status: offline 		The sad fact is that the British do some of the longest hours in Europe work wise. So they get a bit of freedom from their dreary everyday lives and they go a bit mad.

Fix the work culture and you’ll fix tourist culture also I think.

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RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ - 10/28/2007 1:31:22 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pernicious

The sad fact is that the British do some of the longest hours in Europe work wise. So they get a bit of freedom from their dreary everyday lives and they go a bit mad.

Fix the work culture and you’ll fix tourist culture also I think.


Been to France lately? They really know how to treat tourists and its not because they work long hours, they just hate foreigners.

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RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ - 10/28/2007 1:33:48 PM   
LadyEllen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pernicious

Damn fucking tourists for doing what makes them happy on holiday rather than someone else’s idea of what they should do.



'Nail on the head.......they're having a right old time. They're not interested in hassling the locals, they just want to take a small part of English youth culture with them to a place where there's a fair amount of sun. They're not moaning about anything because they're too busy fuckin', drinkin' and dancin', and half the time probably don't realise which country they're in, nor care....all they know is that it's a place with sun, women, and clubs open 'til 7 in the morning.


The issue is not that they do what they want.

The issue is that they want to do it. And that by doing it, they bring shame and embarassment on our nation.

E

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RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ - 10/28/2007 1:34:25 PM   
Pernicious


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Status: offline 		lol The french take the whole of one month off each year don't they? Also compare our bank holidays to theirs. Then factor in the strike culture there.

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RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ - 10/28/2007 1:37:51 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pernicious

The sad fact is that the British do some of the longest hours in Europe work wise. So they get a bit of freedom from their dreary everyday lives and they go a bit mad.

Fix the work culture and you’ll fix tourist culture also I think.


Been to France lately? They really know how to treat tourists and its not because they work long hours, they just hate foreigners.


I visited France in 1983 and 2001, and folks were incredibly nice to me both times.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
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RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ - 10/28/2007 1:38:11 PM   
Pernicious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
The issue is not that they do what they want.

The issue is that they want to do it. And that by doing it, they bring shame and embarassment on our nation.

E

When you hear of British tourists being raped in Greece is that shame on the British as well? Do Greeks feel shame for the actions of the locals? No I only feel shame for the things I do not for the things others do.



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RE: MsScarlett and the xenophobic English........ - 10/28/2007 1:43:03 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pernicious

lol The french take the whole of one month off each year don't they? Also compare our bank holidays to theirs. Then factor in the strike culture there.


Traditionally August is for disappearing into the country but Sarkozy has other ideas hence the strikes last week.

I remember taking my daughter to the Eiffel tower once and we went to get some refreshments at the kiosk there. An Indian man asked for four coffees and the woman on the other side of the counter said, you're supposed to be on this side of the counter serving me, go to hell, I'm not an African! I'm not sure what African had to do with it but since the Indian guy was helping to pay her wages she had a good way of encouraging commerce. Now I'm not saying there isn't racism in Britain but I find it difficult to believe that someone can be so openly racist and keep their job.

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