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YOU Lead i follow - 8/2/2005 4:58:47 PM

cheekybottom

Posts: 69
Joined: 5/28/2005
Status: offline

When walking with another male I tend to carry myself off and to the side of him just a few steps behind. This comes naturally to me as I prefer to follow his directional lead. When things progress a warm firm hand guides at the small of my back where my hips begin to flare or his hand gripping the back of my neck-a favorite, but most vanilla (I’m using this term loosely) do not attempt nor display that sort of constant contact which often causes confusion as to the course of destination when walking side by side. Have you ever noticed this undignified bumping? Perhaps vanilla folk themselves don’t get in each others way but I do when not paired up with a Dominant male.

~d~

_____________________________

Kiss me I'm Irish, Spank me I'm Italian.

Post #: 1

RE: YOU Lead i follow - 8/2/2005 5:11:43 PM

quietlilone

Posts: 29
Joined: 8/1/2005
Status: offline

Cheeky, I have noticed this as well, not only in vanilla relationships but in certain D/s relationships where it is not a constant expectation, or put out there at the begining. I also tend to walk behind and usually to the left. I also have a habit (perhaps the wrong word) an instinct to be the one who opens the door and then steps aside to allow him/her to walk through first. When this is not expected before hand it gets very confusing for me, and looks like one of those crazy dances ppl do in the aisles of store when they meet head on and then try to move out of eath others path.

(in reply to cheekybottom)

Post #: 2

RE: YOU Lead i follow - 8/2/2005 5:22:34 PM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Like most things it takes time to get adjusted and slip into a comfortable rhythm. The Owner prefers to touch a lot and likes holding my hand or my arm as we walk so we are in step together.

(in reply to cheekybottom)

Post #: 3

RE: YOU Lead i follow - 8/2/2005 5:35:50 PM

Kinkypupper

Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline

"bumping" is fun.

But you could be correct I am not sure I have seen other couples do it so it may be a D/s trait of some sort that is showing.

_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to cheekybottom)

Post #: 4

RE: YOU Lead i follow - 8/2/2005 5:37:01 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

i usually follow behind Master. And he is constantly telling me to catch up. LOL i used to try and open doors, but he never lets me hold it open for him. Mostly though, i just follow. Keeping myself open to where every he wants to go next and i LOVE it when he steers me...

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 5

RE: YOU Lead i follow - 8/2/2005 5:49:45 PM

brightspot

Posts: 3052
Status: offline

Hi cheekybottom,

Sometimes I wonder just what kind of drugs you are on.

To answer you're poemy(word?) kind of question...I always walk to the side of my Domina where it put's me on the inside of the sidewalk, that's how she likes it, a couple steps behind with my hand grasping her back pocket.

*Brightspot

_____________________________

"Comedy is NOT Pretty!" ~Peter Nelson

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(in reply to cheekybottom)

Post #: 6

RE: YOU Lead i follow - 8/2/2005 5:52:51 PM

stormsfate

Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
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I was trained to alway be on the right and just slightly behind, but not enough to be noticeable.

best regards,
fate

(in reply to cheekybottom)

Post #: 7

RE: YOU Lead i follow - 8/2/2005 5:55:14 PM

cheekybottom

Posts: 69
Joined: 5/28/2005
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Pfffft, I’m normally like this, maybe if I took some mind altering drugs you’d understand me better, but then where’s the fun in that?

Smiles,
~d~

_____________________________

Kiss me I'm Irish, Spank me I'm Italian.

(in reply to brightspot)

Post #: 8

RE: YOU Lead i follow - 8/2/2005 7:25:41 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

The walking to the left and slightly behind is a custom, unless I’m mistaken, dating back to iniquity. Certainly in medieval periods it allowed the male freedom to place himself as a shield and free his sword with his right hand. In today’s world, for the most part, chivalry is forgotten or laughed at. For me, I will always kiss a lady’s hand in greeting and parting, open doors etc. Always, my right side is left clear for similar reasons as it was in history. Mind you leashes are good to guide a slave. Any subby or slave in my collar will walk on my left and half a pace behind. This is exactly she would be if I gave the “hair” command and grasped a handful of her hair to lead her.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to cheekybottom)

Post #: 9

RE: YOU Lead i follow - 8/2/2005 7:46:20 PM

subcheryl

Posts: 280
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline

cheekybottom, I thought it was just me. I usually end up on Masters lft side and always a step or two behind him unless I am pushing the cart, then I am half the parking lot away from him, with him in the lead, LOL. He stands 6'2" with it all being legs and I am 5'4" and short legs, sure you get the picture, any way the first time he held unto my kneck I was very conscious of him but felt somehow protected, now he does it and I don't even realize it, or he takes my hand, which helps keep me near him, or I grab his pocket which serves to remind him he has me in tow LOL.

Ironbear, I love your reasoning too, am into medievel times and the way men treated their women, even in the early days of our country men walked on the outside of the street, one explanation for this was that when the streets where muddy and carriages would go by and splash the womens dress', they would not get as dirty, can you imagine washing out the miles of cloth to get yukky mud out. And in some parts of the world, when they would throw the wash water out the window, it would land mostly on the man and not the woman. I too miss the days of chivalry of those by gone days, you will see mostly older couples doing that, where the man walks on the street side, but not often anymore I think it is a lost art really, men too busy or moms too busy to teach their boys how to treat a woman, when my boys where little I made a big deal out of the fact that they would run to open the door for momma at a store, and as they grew up it gave me pride to see them open doors for strange women esp. older ones, and now 3 of the 4 are married with babes of their own and they each treat their women with respect. Such a warm fuzzy feeling.

Sorry for going on and on at times have been accused of writing books.

< Message edited by subcheryl -- 8/2/2005 7:52:24 PM >

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 10

RE: YOU Lead i follow - 8/2/2005 7:54:27 PM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subcheryl
I too miss the days of chivalry of those by gone days,

Yeah those good ole days when women were kept stupid and breeding...

quote:

men too busy or moms too busy to teach their boys how to treat a woman,

Mmm gotta love sexist traditions.

I'm certainly not suggesting that being polite is a bad thing, or that we have to sacrifice social graces for social progress (femi-nazi's get a bad rap for that). BUT they are what they are- sexist ideals of behavior. And any reminiscing of how great it was for women way back when and how wonderful males were way back when needs the FULL picture, not just the fairy tale.

(in reply to subcheryl)

Post #: 11

RE: YOU Lead i follow - 8/2/2005 8:28:29 PM

subcheryl

Posts: 280
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

quote:

ORIGINAL: subcheryl
I too miss the days of chivalry of those by gone days,

Yeah those good ole days when women were kept stupid and breeding...

quote:

men too busy or moms too busy to teach their boys how to treat a woman,

Mmm gotta love sexist traditions.

I'm certainly not suggesting that being polite is a bad thing, or that we have to sacrifice social graces for social progress (femi-nazi's get a bad rap for that). BUT they are what they are- sexist ideals of behavior. And any reminiscing of how great it was for women way back when and how wonderful males were way back when needs the FULL picture, not just the fairy tale.

the days when women where kept stupid and breeding????? Do you think that was so in all cases? yes girls back then may not have finished school if they were lucky to go to school, but then alot of guys didn't either unless they came from money usually in young america the kids where needed at home, or the girls did marry early, And I am sure there where women who were just as equal in their education and ability to run the castles and mansions as the men folk where, in fact am sure some had to know how to figure the budget, take in rents and tend to the need of servants and such, so that takes alot but yet they knew how to be femine and respected at the same time.

and as always or should say in most cases the negative gets more light than the positive as far as the full picture you are talking about, there were many women who made their marks on history and still treated like a lady by most, I think the ones who shuned their abilities and brains back then where the guys who had self image issues, but even then do beleive there where men who appreciated a woman's brain or ability to use it as much as there are men today who do appreciate a woman ability to use her brain but yet treat her with respect

I don't intend to be argumentive with you, but I took this as you where sneering at the fact that I taught my boys to open doors for women and to respect them, and if that was not your intentions than am sorry, but also beleive that there where women in history that made their marks you just don't hear of it that much, as the saying goes behind every good man is a great woman

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 12

RE: YOU Lead i follow - 8/2/2005 8:42:53 PM

LadySonelle

Posts: 280
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Santa Fe NM
Status: offline

When I do dressage pony or slave puppy training, I use guide dog positioning for My slave. Since I do not see out of My left eye, My slave walks to My left either at My side or just slightly ahead. At the down-klerb, if I step back with My right foot, turning My body rightward, the slave turns right, crosses in front as I pivot to continue at his side. If I step forward with My right foot and turn left, My slave turns left and we proceed. Stepping straignt ahead with My body straight signals to continue in lint from the down kerb to the up kerb. Usually My left hand is resting lightly on his upper arm just above the elbow but not holding him firmly, in proper sighted-guide technique.

I see quite well enough, now, to travel independently, but it is always nice to have a slave at My left to "cover" my blind side. Also, I have always led horses and dogs to My left and worked My guide dog to the left as is proper, when I had her, so the positioning feels natural to Me.

Lady Sonelle

_____________________________

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(in reply to cheekybottom)

Post #: 13

RE: YOU Lead i follow - 8/2/2005 9:16:41 PM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subcheryl
Do you think that was so in all cases?

Very very few things are so in all cases. In fact it was the whores and courtesans who were often the most free, the most educated females in history.

quote:

yes girls back then may not have finished school if they were lucky to go to school, but then alot of guys didn't either unless they came from money usually in young america the kids where needed at home, or the girls did marry early, And I am sure there where women who were just as equal in their education and ability to run the castles and mansions as the men folk where, in fact am sure some had to know how to figure the budget, take in rents and tend to the need of servants and such, so that takes alot but yet they knew how to be femine and respected at the same time.

You're jumping all over the place in history here, but that's ok. The issue is that you're talking about sexist behavioral expectations, for males and females, and romanticizing that "the good ole days" were preferable in this way than present day.

Whether those are good or bad is another issue, but they are in absolutely sexist.

quote:

but even then do beleive there where men who appreciated a woman's brain or ability to use it as much as there are men today who do appreciate a woman ability to use her brain but yet treat her with respect

Ah but you aren't discussing treating with respect- you're discussing treating a female differently from a male simply because she is a female.

quote:

I don't intend to be argumentive with you, but I took this as you where sneering at the fact that I taught my boys to open doors for women and to respect them, and if that was not your intentions than am sorry

Not sneering, I just think it's important to point out a few things, such as how we continue to condone and even encourage sexist behavior even as we decry sexism and how that can be self-defeating and I always enjoy pointing out how "good ole days" rarely ever were.

quote:

, but also beleive that there where women in history that made their marks you just don't hear of it that much, as the saying goes behind every good man is a great woman

Which is again pretty sexist. :)

As my first post to you said, there's no reason to give up social graces in order to have social progress, but we need to understand exactly what we are doing and why we are doing it. Encouraging sexist behavior is indeed what most of "chivalry" is all about.

Amusing especially when you consider the notion of female dominants and male submissives. Are we expecting behaviors based on gender or orientation?

< Message edited by EmeraldSlave2 -- 8/2/2005 9:18:12 PM >

(in reply to subcheryl)

Post #: 14

RE: YOU Lead i follow - 8/3/2005 12:01:45 AM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

quote:

ORIGINAL: subcheryl
I too miss the days of chivalry of those by gone days,

Yeah those good ole days when women were kept stupid and breeding...

quote:

men too busy or moms too busy to teach their boys how to treat a woman,

Mmm gotta love sexist traditions.

Emerald, What are you talking about?
Did you live way back and know that all women were treated in an undignified manner?
My father was ALWAYS a gentleman, and always treated my mother and every woman with respect and care. For as long as he lived, I never heard him speak ill of my mom or any woman, or treat them as if they were stupid or lesser, so chill, because
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH A MOM being proud that her boys are gentlemen in the making. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 15

RE: YOU Lead i follow - 8/3/2005 1:32:57 AM

SteelBondager

Posts: 86
Joined: 5/29/2005
Status: offline

I find myself with vanilla friends walking just a little ahead. I have to laugh to myself when I occasionally hear a friend say, "Why am I following you?"

It's just called leading. I don't mean any offense by it.

When I make an effort to walk side by side, we sometimes bump.

_____________________________

http://steelbondager.blogsome.com/ - Thoughts of a Modern Bondager

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)

Post #: 16

RE: YOU Lead i follow - 8/3/2005 2:18:37 AM

Sir4now

Posts: 12
Joined: 9/14/2004
Status: offline

Most the time when walking with a submissive I like her to be just a step behind and on my side. I like the feeling when she can reach up and take my arm or hold my hand. Is this right or wrong I can not say. This is what I like and is right for me.

I still open doors and pull out chairs. This too is just something I want to do and yes it is a show of respect to my submissive. If I don't show my submissive respect how can one expect others to show her respect?

Do you not get a feeling of protection when you are just a step behind your Dom?

If a Dom or anyone what the respect of others do they not need to show others respect as well?

My feeling is to do what is right for you and the Dom your with.

(in reply to SteelBondager)

Post #: 17

RE: YOU Lead i follow - 8/3/2005 4:37:19 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: subcheryl
I too miss the days of chivalry of those by gone days,

Yeah those good ole days when women were kept stupid and breeding...

Chivalry did not just apply to the treatment of women it also applies to the treatment of those in the ruling class originally which extended to others as society restructured. If kissing a woman’s hand in greeting and parting, opening doors and holding a chair for women is sexist then I’m probably the most sexist male in my neck of the woods and I have no intention of changing what I was brought up to do. But, each to his or her own.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 18

RE: YOU Lead i follow - 8/3/2005 4:48:46 AM

tinkJH

Posts: 180
Joined: 5/22/2005
Status: offline

I have always walked on the left, and about a half pace behind, not enough to be noticable. I was confused a bit when my first Dom had me start doing this. With, the acception of being on the sidewalk (figuring you walk with traffic and not against) then I was to walk on his right side. When I had asked him about it one night, he said plainly "It puts me between you, and anything else." Master is the same way, and if Chivalry is sexist, then.. I guess he is as well. His momma taught him very well, and my boys will be taught the same. He has always held open doors (If the kids are not with us he will even open my car door) and he'll hold the doors for even people comming in behind us, holds out the chair for me and for our daughter, he doesn't sit down at the table until we are all seated... and I'm not sure if he being the only one to place the order at the table when we go out is a Master thing or a Chivalry thing - maybe a combination.

_____________________________

"I know you didn't bring me out here to drown,
so why am I ten feet under and upside down..? " (Lifehouse ~ Storm)

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(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 19

RE: YOU Lead i follow - 8/3/2005 4:49:48 AM

kisshou

Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline

cheeky,

I walk that way you do also, it is called... heel :)

oh and on the left as to not interfere with his sword hand ;)

< Message edited by kisshou -- 8/3/2005 4:50:42 AM >

(in reply to cheekybottom)

Post #: 20

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