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ORIGINAL: Kondolinni
I feel strongly that too many women  have joined the BDSM community as submissives for reasons that are not based on healthy perspectives. I have met (both online and in real life) too many of them to discount this as just an aberation. In my (very humble) opinion, the potential for further possible hurt in this venue is too great for these women to engage in without first having resolved the issues which place them in an un-healthy mind-set, if for no other reasonh than to protect themselves, and to maximize their chances of actually finding what their heart desires, as well.

Thanks to all who responded.

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ORIGINAL: Kondolinni

I feel strongly that too many women  have joined the BDSM community as submissives for reasons that are not based on healthy perspectives. I have met (both online and in real life) too many of them to discount this as just an aberation. In my (very humble) opinion, the potential for further possible hurt in this venue is too great for these women to engage in without first having resolved the issues which place them in an un-healthy mind-set, if for no other reason than to protect themselves, and to maximize their chances of actually finding what their heart desires, as well.

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ORIGINAL: Rover
 
5.  Why should we not view this as just another in a long line of "sensitive Dominant protector for all those poor submissives unable to fend for themselves" posts?
 
John

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ORIGINAL: Kondolinni

1.  By what basis have you determined who (and how many) have joined the BDSM community for unhealthy reasons? Personal experience only. A very quickly described example would be that I have met a submissive for a date, then discovered she has tremendous issues with hurts from her past (usually, but not always, centering on abusive interactions with men), as well as her appearance. Because of this, her reactions to me, both as a Dominant, and as a normal, virile male, were skewed in a very negative and potentially hurtful way. This is, of course, not the only example I could offer, but, I admit, my perspective on this is based on annecdotal evidence only.

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2.  Are you degreed in the mental health field that we should give any weight to your opinion? Of Course not. I am a person with feelings and an opinion. The original post was written from a personal perspective, not a professional one. Your suggestion that I am speaking above my station is more indicative of your opinions than it is of the topic itself. I suggest you go to the POLLS forum and actually read the thread mentioned here.

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3.  Why do you single out submissives?  You don't see unhealthy reasons as the motivation for Dominants/Tops to join the community? Of course I do. Doms/Dommes have issues, just like everybody else. A good response in the original thread said that there is a range of personalities in any group... some good, some not so good. Doms/Dommes have issues that could be construed as un-healthy for forming the basis of a D/s interaction. However, that was not the subject of the OP or the subsequent thread. Is it neccesary to write a comprehensive thesis on a subject to render an opinion?

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4.  How is it that you are able to divine that someone is not actually following their true heart's desires? I am not able to divine anything. Furthermore, I never rendered an opinion on what the girl inquestion wants, or her motivations for wanting it. If you want to issue a challenge, check your facts. My OP was based on a "feeling", which was, in turn, based on several interactions with subs both online and in real life.

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5.  Why should we not view this as just another in a long line of "sensitive Dominant protector for all those poor submissives unable to fend for themselves" posts?Feel free to view it as you see fit. In the grand scheme of my life, how you feel about something I write in this forum, while not inconsequential to me, does not have any noteworthy affect on me.

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The same issues exist in vanilla women and vanilla relationships.  I cannot imagine that would cause you to question their participation in a vanilla lifestyle.  Can you?Actually, if I were inclined to formulate either an emotional response or a personal opinion about a person in a vanilla relationship with issues similar to the ones referred to in this and the previous chain, it would likely effect me in a similar way.

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My only suggestion is, as I stated, how much weight to give to this opinion (not whether you should have or express an opinion).  Coming from a degreed professional it has considerably more validity than coming from a layman such as you or I.  That's the nature of "considering the source" for any information.Interesiting. What do you expect to find in a forum such as this? If I have an expectation of hearing the opinions and diagnoses of professionals, I go to a forum specific to their field of expertise.

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No, a comprehensive thesis isn't necessary.  Though a single sentence, or even part of a sentence, saying that you also see unhealthy reasons for Dominants as well is easy enough to slip in there.  Though even in your response here you seem unwilling to make an uqualified statement that Dominants join the community for unhealthy reasons as well (you speak of issues that can be construed as unhealthy, which is a far bit less than your unqualified statement about submissives).  I think it's reasonable for me to draw opinions from that, same as you have done.Very well. I'll be unambiguous. There are issues Doms/Dommes use to form the reason for their participation in this lifestyle that are (on an equal level) potentially harmful to themselves and others. Again, such was not the topic of the OP, or this follow-up.

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I apologize if I misread your statement, but it seemed to me that you were infering that these submissives were not following their true heart's desire and I was wondering how you were able to come to that conclusion.  I suppose this may be a lesson in what happens when we extrapolate too much from a mere "feeling".  Though people have drawn conclusions and opinions based upon less.If I had to guess, I'd say this girl wants what she wants very passionately. Perhaps even despirately. It would also be my personal opinion that the depth of that need/desire is a marker/indicator (possibly) for the underlying issues that have been discussed here.

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Well now, that's not exactly a denial, is it?Hmm...was there something to confirm or deny? For the record; I am not a crusader. More like a concerned citizen. As I stated; form your own opinions.

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ORIGINAL: Rover

I didn't read the original post, and will not comment upon it as a result.  But this passage has me wondering several things:
 
1.  By what basis have you determined who (and how many) have joined the BDSM community for unhealthy reasons?
 
2.  Are you degreed in the mental health field that we should give any weight to your opinion?
 
3.  Why do you single out submissives?  You don't see unhealthy reasons as the motivation for Dominants/Tops to join the community?
 
4.  How is it that you are able to divine that someone is not actually following their true heart's desires?
 
5.  Why should we not view this as just another in a long line of "sensitive Dominant protector for all those poor submissives unable to fend for themselves" posts?
 
John

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Nice answer, except that wasn't the question.  We both know that you would not question her lifestyle, even if you thought she had issues.  So why you would question the lifestyle of a submissive with those issues seems a bit inconsistent at best, if not disingenuous.
I understand now. Okay, I'll concede that my forming an opinion would not be in any way affected by her lifestyle, but rather on the problem only. I admit I would be less likely to connect the two if the person were involved in a vanilla relationship. I would suggest, however, that, in both cases, many of the underlying causes for the kinds of issues we are talking about would be the same. Abuse is abuse. Self-loathing is self-loathing.

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Now, I have to let you know, you've maintained my attention throughout these posts, but this one may be our first slip-up. I find it hard to believe you don't already know what my answer to this is. I'm guessing you took us here because you wanted to have these thoughts expressed in the forum. I'll bite, but much further down this road, and we'll lose sight of the original destination.

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Towit: What we call a "vanilla" relationship is a stereotype, or an archtype. Created and revised over hundreds of thousands of years to represent the "standard" by which males and females interact for the purposes of reproduction. We have been talking here about issues pertaning to a sub-class of relationship, one without the body of human experience and reflection behind it to allow us to formaulate a base-line archtype. As a sub-set of what we as humans generally define as a "typical" relationship, any BDSM oriented relationship is obviously more subject to evaluation and discussion.

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I have no expectations on what people will post.  Only that I give relative weight to their opinions about mental health based upon their qualifications.  If you are willing to accept everyone's opinion as equally qualified, that is your prerogative.  Though I suspect that if you require a medical opinion you be looking for that diploma on the wall.  Same goes for whomever you might choose to work on your car, build your home, do your taxes, etc.
You need to take a few extra minutes to consider your responses. Do you honestly believe, from what you have seen of my intelligence (such as it may be), that I don't carefully check the referrences of any profesional I interact with? If you're getting bored with this exchange, we can stop anytime. Equally qualified? Do you honestly think this would be true? Equally welcome, yes, but I reserve the right to privately evaluate the relevence and usefulness of each person's comments/opinions as I see fit.

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Thanks, that clears up a question I had.  I hope someone will become a vocal advocate on their behalf, as you have for the poor submissives who can't make "good" and healthy decisions for themselves.
I don't know whether to hope you are being bluntly serious, or crafty and sly. I kind of hope for the latter. It would be more entertaining and interesting.

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Yep, you're right...  it's a guess.  On that we now both agree.
Was that really neccesary? I never indicated otherwise. I hope flinging this (tiny) barb makes you feel better.

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Have your opinion. Enjoy it. More than anyone else in this or the original thread, you deserve it. You're a fairly entertaining person to talk to. At least in this venue. I feel I have, at this point, not only defended my OP and subsequent related statements, but also allowed fair and equal time for the democratic response. I'm getting a tad bored.