why we are, how we are (Full Version)

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fleshslave -> why we are, how we are (10/31/2007 9:47:38 AM)

I have had a profile on cm for many years, but i have rarely been on the message boards. Someone could read posts all day and still never read everything. just so much "sstuff".

But i have been reading more, and have seen a few posts that brought me to this question, and i am sorry if it has already been done.


Why are you submissive or dominant? Is is from how you were raised? Something that happened to you and the submission or dominance is the end effect of that?

for me, I am not totally sure, I know i was molested at 6 years old, but I also grew up with a father who was a quadriplegic (paralized from the shoulders/armpits down) and watched him deterioate over 38 years. I grew up taking care of him, taking care of myself also as my mother left him and I when i was 10. So my entire life, i have been caring for someone. Weither it was my father,  myself, my husband or children i was always the caretaker. Making sure others are pleased, taken care of.

So is being submissive the care taker part? or is the submissive the part that no longer wants to be the caretaker? something for me to think about.

my question to you is what made you how you are??



onestandingstill -> RE: why we are, how we are (10/31/2007 9:50:23 AM)

For me I'm not sure if it's jsut who I am inside myself or if it's because I was raised in a 1950's sort of home where my father was king and boss always.
I know it's also like you for me in ways too.
I'm a total control (of myself) freak.
Being able to pass the mantle of my self control to my Master to carry from time to time is a very nurturing and comfortable place for me.
I think part of it's just who I am and part was my upbringing over all.
suzanne



toservez -> RE: why we are, how we are (10/31/2007 10:06:55 AM)

For me I just think this life is the best fit for me since coming out from the womb.

My parents have a wonderful relationship and in a total biased opinion are the greatest parents in the history of the world. ;) From the culture I was raised in has dominant and submissive type acts and responsibilities but this does not make them have any higher or lower percentage of dominant and submissive personalities in people and in particular my family members. My culture though, might of made it more easier for me to embrace this type of life and shuck societal teachings but who knows. I am just glad I found this path for myself.




RRafe -> RE: why we are, how we are (10/31/2007 10:07:46 AM)

I have a strange mind-no explanation needed beyond that.[:D]



missturbation -> RE: why we are, how we are (10/31/2007 10:10:47 AM)

I honestly believe i was just born this way, in other word's it's just nature.
 



breatheasone -> RE: why we are, how we are (10/31/2007 10:13:14 AM)

I am not sure I know the why of it all....so consequently I am not sure of the why nots either.... I do know that as my Master would say..."We are, what we are."  I AM a slave... it really is just who I am. I also know i resent the assumption that "ALL"  "s" types must have been abused in some way. I think that is highly prejudicial, and flawed thinking at best.



batshalom -> RE: why we are, how we are (10/31/2007 10:17:31 AM)

Hm. Nature or nurture ... don't know.

I am a pleaser. Would I be the same if I'd had a different environment? Impossible to say. I've been submissive as long as I can remember, and finally happy for a number of years now, ever since I figured out it's ok to be submissive.



Tigrita -> RE: why we are, how we are (10/31/2007 10:31:44 AM)

This is a very interesting question to me.  I've met people who were raised under a dominant and say that contributed to them being dominant themselves by example, and also those who say it contributed to them being submissive, by being raised/conditioned/forced to behave that way, or maybe it made no difference and they just are what they are.

Personally, I am a switch who primarily desires to be dominated to be sexually fulfilled, though I'm more naturally dominant in most situations, but I look for one who I can't dominate and that is who gets my juices flowing.  I had a very dominating and domineering iron-fist father, I was very submissive growning up because you just don't cross him, and I didn't find my dominant side until I left that environment.  My father's is not the type of dominance I exude, I think it is something I just have in myself.  My mother was extremely submissive, care-taking, service-oriented, and that isn't the type of submission I emulate either, though I see some similarities in the nurturing, and service-out-of-love qualities I have.  But I think she was more naturally submissive over-all, and willing to submit to a lot of bullshit from my father that I never would. 

Some of my dominance may be reactionary to coming out of a long relationship with a submissive man that didn't satisfy me in college, using dominance myself to filter out the men who aren't naturally dominant enough for me.  But I also easily adopt leadership roles when necessary (though I'm also oportunistically lazy and will be happy to step asside for someone competent) and I love mentoring, so there is plenty of innate, non-reactionary dominance in me. 

So, really, I think I simply am what I am, nature more than nurture.  If I simply emulated, or reacted to the people or situations in my life, I would expect I'd be very different, I can't really attribute most of my qualities to my environment, though some things have influenced me a bit, and I share some select characteristics with my parents. 

~ J



Tigrita -> RE: why we are, how we are (10/31/2007 10:46:19 AM)

Okay, thinking more, maybe I do have the need to be dominated to feel comfortable in a relationship because of the way my father was.  I guess that does make a lot of sense.  But he was also very unreasonable, uncaring, un-communicative, all of which I resent, which has led me to be much more assertive about needing and respecting those things, has led me to come from a much stronger, more assertive position in finding a dominant man who really earns and deserves my submission, as well as being strong enough to force it.  So I guess maybe it did influence me a lot.  Hmmmmmmmmm.  Very interesting stuff to think about.  I'm starting to feel like I should be laying on a couch and paying someone by the hour here....



peppermint -> RE: why we are, how we are (10/31/2007 11:04:16 AM)

quote:

Why are you submissive or dominant?


Years ago i asked myself this same question.  I spent months researching and reading.  I asked questions of those i knew.  After 6 months i found the answer that satisfied me.

My answer is that is doesn't really matter why i am submissive.  What matters is that i accept and love myself for what i am. 




subnstudent -> RE: why we are, how we are (10/31/2007 12:01:48 PM)

I agree with peppermint. Trying to find out why you have your good qualities is just like trying to figure out your bad qualities; Sure, you can simulate or avoid your 'training' as apporpriate, but sometimes it just encourages you to make excuses and shift credit for who you are, now.

Understanding your past can be helpful for understanding your present, but it's not the training and the circumstances that make you who you are; it is the choices you make and actions you take that define you as you.



fleshslave -> RE: why we are, how we are (10/31/2007 12:06:28 PM)

the question was more to bring up the discussion,  not about finding out why i am submissive.
just tyring to be a contrubuiting part of the forum!!    ~grin~



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: why we are, how we are (10/31/2007 4:08:24 PM)

quote:

read everything. just so much "sstuff".

But i have been reading more, and have seen a few posts that brought me to this question, and i am sorry if it has already been done.


Why are you submissive or dominant? Is is from how you were raised? Something that happened to you and the submission or dominance is the end effect of that?

for me, I am not totally sure, I know i was molested at 6 years old, but I also grew up with a father who was a quadriplegic (paralized from the shoulders/armpits down) and watched him deterioate over 38 years. I grew up taking care of him, taking care of myself also as my mother left him and I when i was 10. So my entire life, i have been caring for someone. Weither it was my father, myself, my husband or children i was always the caretaker. Making sure others are pleased, taken care of.

So is being submissive the care taker part? or is the submissive the part that no longer wants to be the caretaker? something for me to think about.

Yes and no.  Most humans enjoy both taking care of and being taken care of.  Now, they might not be too comfortable with one or the other, but that doesn't mean they don't want it.

And it really has nothing to do with being a dom or sub.

As for why- orientation is innate, expression of orientation is learned.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1237735/mpage_1/key_nature%252Cnurture/tm.htm#1237742
Brain vs history, or the nature vs nurture debate

http://www.collarchat.com/m_744252/mpage_1/key_nature%252Cnurture/tm.htm#744266
Do you think you were "born this way"?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_691960/mpage_1/key_nature%252Cnurture/tm.htm#691984
naturally Ds?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_499963/mpage_1/key_nature%252Cnurture/tm.htm#499979
Nature or nurture?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_307130/mpage_1/key_nature%252Cnurture/tm.htm#307130
Do you feel being a dom/me is innate or can be learned?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_461558/mpage_1/key_nature%252Cnurture/tm.htm#461558
hard-wired, why why why!

http://www.collarchat.com/m_143698/mpage_1/key_born%252Craised/tm.htm#143698
nature versus nurture

http://www.collarchat.com/m_760860/mpage_2/key_nature%252Cnurture/tm.htm#761518
born to serve?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_468650/mpage_1/key_nature%252Cnurture/tm.htm#468650
nature vs nurture

http://www.collarchat.com/m_35901/mpage_1/key_learned%252Cborn/tm.htm#35901
born or learned, how we become dom?



adoracat -> RE: why we are, how we are (10/31/2007 5:56:05 PM)

nature/nurture?  both.

i enjoy serving and being submissive.  i was also trained by a traditional southern mama to have my father be the king of the household, and that was just *that*.  and so i continue to be that happy submissive person even now.

kitten



octavia -> RE: why we are, how we are (10/31/2007 6:09:59 PM)

When I think of this question, I have to think beyond nature vs nurture to concider those people who start as subs and then "graduate" to Doms.  This progression ( I believe a part of the original leather movement that much of wiiwd is based on) defies that logic.  If our preferences can and do change, then it disproves the theory that one is born a certain way and stays that way until they die. 
Forgive me for getting so philisophical and logical about this.. but seriously, this is how my brain works. 
As far as I have been able to reason out for myself thus far, the stuff I enjoy is not a reflection of who i am innately so much as it is a reflection of where I am on a path of growth and progress.  Could it simply be that bdsm is one of many ways that people have discovered to connect with one another and for any number of reasons, those of us who adopt this way of relating, prefer it?

Oh my!  Forgive my spelling here please.. .I happen to be drinking beer atm......[:D]



TemptingNviceSub -> RE: why we are, how we are (10/31/2007 7:47:40 PM)

Yes and no.  Most humans enjoy both taking care of and being taken care of.  Now, they might not be too comfortable with one or the other, but that doesn't mean they don't want it.

And it really has nothing to do with being a dom or sub.

As for why- orientation is innate, expression of orientation is learned.


I have to agree with the above quote that LA expressed...and in some ways it did ring a bell with me..I am very good at caring for someone..but in all truth I get embarassed when someone takes care of me..even though I so very much wish for that very thing...another hummm moment for me..[sm=idea.gif]....Tempting



applecandy -> RE: why we are, how we are (10/31/2007 10:10:47 PM)

The urge to answer in a five foot long post is intense....but I will resist.

I can only guess at the vast majority, but I have discovered some 'contributing factors' to my kink side. My home dynamic was very similar to Tigrita's, and this gave me no end of trouble. My father was a bully and emotionally abusive, and I was constantly afraid of him. My mother, while having a strong personality, was a 'people pleaser', especially towards him. She spent most of her time serving him, which I resented - I could see it wasn't what she wanted to be doing, but she did it because she loved him. I saw this, and recognized the dynamic as wrong. He demanded service, and she forced herself into a role that didn't really fit her.

I know that this has contributed to both sides of my kink personality - the desire to truly submit, instead of this farce that I witnessed, and the desire to Dominate justly, with a completely willing submissive.

I've also taken a lot of time to pick apart the rape fantasies (wasn't sure whether to post this here, or in the rape thread - gonna do it here). I was sexually assaulted at 15, and that's been a major factor in my relationship with sex. I believe that the rape fantasies I've had, and the two or three that have been haphazardly acted out, are a way to relive the experience and regain some control. Yes, there's an assault, and it's violent - but it's of my own accord, and I can stop it at my discretion. But I won't, will I? *chuckle*

Anyways. Definitely an interesting discussion piece...



MasterFireMaam -> RE: why we are, how we are (10/31/2007 10:24:16 PM)

I am a Master because I'm called to be. I am a Dominant because it's my nature. I'm a Top because it excites me and I'm a bottom because it offers either pleasure or spirituality.

Master Fire



alittlebent -> RE: why we are, how we are (11/1/2007 1:21:50 AM)

My, what an interesting subject, one of the reasons i like to chat with people in the lifestyle, both Dominant and submissive, is to try to understand what makes them tick. why are they one way or the other. i have found no 2 that were alike. For me, i have always had to be responsible, even as a child, Dad would leave me home to look after things....that meant keep an eye on Mom. i was always expected to be a "good boy", and would never do anything to embarass my parents, consequently i missed alot of experiences growing up. My allowing myself to be submissive frees me of my inhibitions to experiment and experience the lifestyle things that interest me. I have always been a very monogamous person and not permissive at all, and even though divorced for almost 9 years, remain so. Being a chastity slave in someways helps me to reconsile that.....no action because i am not allowed.



MaamJay -> RE: why we are, how we are (11/1/2007 1:46:45 AM)

I see "caretaking" as something that happens in different ways on both sides of the fence, and as I am both Domme and sub, I do both, simultaneously! As a sub, i caretake Master in that i look after His physical needs (cook His food, keep house etc) and also His emotional needs for love, companionship, sex etc. i do that in ways that suit Him, what He desires is what is most important to me. As a Domme, I caretake My sub in terms of looking after her welfare ... ensuring her physical and emotional needs are met in the relationship, helping her make good choices and decisions, directing her, guiding her, protecting her (including from herself in this recent period of recuperation after major surgery!). In this, I have the final say, I act from My own will and volition, but with her best interests at heart.

I find the Dominant side of caretaking somewhat more exhausting mentally and the submissive side of it more exhausting physically ... overall they balance out! And while I am a natural leader in everyday life, the relief of being able to hand over the reins to Master is palpable! So I can see that either trait could easily arise from someone who has been brought up to be a caretaker, just depends on what kind of care is either (a) your forte or (b) what you are worn out from giving and longing to receive instead.

As to why I am the way I am? Well I don't see any clues in My upbringing, I have fortunately never been abused physically or sexually, and while My leadership skills developed at an early age, I don't really understand why I function so much better as a duality, ie Domme and sub together with different people. The only clue I have to that is I am a Gemini and was apparently meant to be a twin ... !

Maam Jay aka violet[A]



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