Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (Full Version)

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OrionTheWolf -> Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (10/31/2007 8:18:37 PM)

Did anyone else catch the debate last night? That question about giving drivers licenses to illegal aliens seemed like alot of dodging and double talk. This rhetoric about waging the good fight for the last 16 years does not seem how someone should become President. I agree with Obama, it is time to create dialogue across the parties, and not stay in a deadlock over issues.

I have looked and cannot find a solid decision anywhere, on whether Hillary wants to control illegal immigration or not. Does anyone have a link with her stance on it?

Orion



farglebargle -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (10/31/2007 8:32:48 PM)

Well, it's a harsh topic.

Primarily because it's Bullshit. The whole topic.

You have a Driver's License for ONE REASON. To identify you to insurance companies so they can effectively issue policies, and keep track of... You know... Drivers.

So, ANYONE operating a Motor Vehicle, and getting the MANDATORY INSURANCE COVERAGE really ***NEEDS*** to have a Driver's License.

That includes "Undocumented Workers". The alternative is that they DON'T have driver's licenses, and WON'T carry the proper coverage.

Now, whichever fucking retard decided to use them for General Identification Purposes, is the fucking retard to blame.




cyberdude611 -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (10/31/2007 8:39:29 PM)

Fargle....you need to read the law...

First off....the law states they only need insurance coverage to REGISTER a vehicle....not drive it.
Second....there is no system to verify that they continue insurance coverage. So they can get it in order to register the car, make 1 payment and then let it lapse.

So there are loopholes all over this thing...

This was tried in North Carolina and Tennessee and it failed to decrease insurance and it failed to decrease auto accidents. Both states abandoned the program.



FangsNfeet -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (10/31/2007 8:45:50 PM)

lol, Is there a politition anywhere in the US goverenment that can give a straight answer on immigration?

There's to much to loose in votes, financial contributions, and business deals for any wealthy politician to want to fix our immigration issues.

If George Bush visited the border today, I garuntee that Illegal Aliens could tap him on the shoulder for directions and find themselves hitch hiking north in G.W.'s limo. 



TheHeretic -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (10/31/2007 8:55:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

First off....the law states they only need insurance coverage to REGISTER a vehicle....not drive it.
Second....there is no system to verify that they continue insurance coverage. So they can get it in order to register the car, make 1 payment and then let it lapse.




          Depends on where you are, Cyber.  In CA and OR (that I can speak of with certainty), getting pulled over without proof of insurance can get your car impounded on the spot.  Getting pulled over without a license can easily mean a trip to jail.  Unless you are an undocumented immigrant of course.  They get sent on their way.

       



subtee -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (10/31/2007 8:59:49 PM)

Yes, she said, "We should have passed immigration reform." Beyond the failing of that--not her failing but the congressional body's failing-- there is nothing to do but find a way to fix, state by state, the issues and resultant complications endemic to not having a cohesive answer. Confounding this is the impending (tho not really--just feels like it here in Iowa), elections which necessitate the careful wording (read, hyperbole) to not piss off ANYONE.

Just saying.



Sanity -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (10/31/2007 9:10:43 PM)

As much as I detest the Leftist NY Times, they do have the best information I could find regarding candidates' views and voting records regarding illegal immigration.

Note that the Democrats are strategically placed at the top of their list...

http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/issues/immigration/index.html



Nosathro -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (10/31/2007 9:13:53 PM)

In California this has been a issue.  Right now, illegal immigrates can not get a drivers license.  Of course that does not stop them from driving, without issurance.  Even when some do have a license they can not afford the insureance, they do have money to buy a car.  When there is a accident, they simply return to Mexico and come back a few months later new ID and all.
 
As to Hillary Clinton on immigration.  One of her biggest campain contributers is the Silcone Valley.  They are hoping that as President she will expand the High Tech Immigration Law.  This law allows Corporation to have foreign immigrates with High Tech Skills come into the country and work for them.  They get tax breaks for this.  However, there is alot of critizm about this.  First off, it is the company that makes up what they are short on, there is evidence that in fact there are plenty of American High Tech persons looking for work, but the company would have to pay them a high salary where the immigrate will be paid far less the what the going market.  The companies can only bring in 15% of their work force under the law, many admit they don't know how many.



cyberdude611 -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (10/31/2007 9:31:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

Yes, she said, "We should have passed immigration reform." Beyond the failing of that--not her failing but the congressional body's failing-- there is nothing to do but find a way to fix, state by state, the issues and resultant complications endemic to not having a cohesive answer. Confounding this is the impending (tho not really--just feels like it here in Iowa), elections which necessitate the careful wording (read, hyperbole) to not piss off ANYONE.

Just saying.


Immigration reform? You mean the "Comprehensive Immigration Reform?" That bill was AMNESTY! Not immigration reform. Because what that bill does is solve the immigration problem by just making everyone pay a fine and making them legal.

Sorry but I'm not letting the government wiggle out of this mess that easy.



subtee -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (10/31/2007 9:35:08 PM)

Okay, but we'll all be wiggling then. You because you don't want to allow what you characterize as "amnesty" and individual states--not to mention individuals--addressing situations that are not amenable to anyone: not to those who employ immigrants, not to those who would feel circumvented by their employment, nor by the immigrants themselves.



cyberdude611 -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (10/31/2007 9:52:02 PM)

First you pass a law to secure the border. Next you impose strict fines to any employer who hires illegal aliens. (once that supply of jobs are gone, they wont cross the border anymore anyway). Then to be here legally, you have to go back to your country of orgin and file the proper paperwork.

Yes I know this will never be passed because I dont think our government has done a damn thing in the past 50 years that puts any retraint or accountability on corporations.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (10/31/2007 10:05:46 PM)

She said she thought it is a good idea, then said she would not support it. When asked directly, she gave a non-answer. That is not having to carefully word something. Fix it? How about stopping it, then reforming the immigration laws some?

Orion



quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

Yes, she said, "We should have passed immigration reform." Beyond the failing of that--not her failing but the congressional body's failing-- there is nothing to do but find a way to fix, state by state, the issues and resultant complications endemic to not having a cohesive answer. Confounding this is the impending (tho not really--just feels like it here in Iowa), elections which necessitate the careful wording (read, hyperbole) to not piss off ANYONE.

Just saying.



popeye1250 -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (10/31/2007 10:28:54 PM)

Damn, two years ago she said she was "completely against illegal immigration."
We don't need any new "Laws" just start enforcing the laws on the books and put Troops on the border with minefields and shoot to kill orders just like we have on S. Korea's border.
Hillary Clinton is a fuckin' liar!
She and that lowlife scumbag "husband" of hers are pathological liars.
And anyone who votes for her is fucking stupid and nieve.
She'll change her story daily to suit the audience just like "Bill" did.
God, it was like having Jim and Tammy Faye Baker in the White House, "white trash."
It was never about "America", it was all about the Clintons.
You can never get a straight answer from a sociopath.
There wasn't even a tube of toothpaste or plastic cups left on Air Force one when they left!



farglebargle -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (10/31/2007 10:39:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Fargle....you need to read the law...



First off....the law states they only need insurance coverage to REGISTER a vehicle....not drive it.
Second....there is no system to verify that they continue insurance coverage. So they can get it in order to register the car, make 1 payment and then let it lapse.


Never heard of NYS IIES, eh? It's not just about the barcode. They know when they pull you over if it's up to date. Them computers are all networked!

Of course, you cannot permit an unlicensed operator to use a Registered Vehicle, can you? You're not covered under the insurance policy unless you're a licensed operator.

The licensing of operators serves no lawful purpose, but to make it easier for the insurance companies to operate the MANDATED programs required of all in NYS.

So, the point I made of relying on these documents for anything BUT the efficient operation and settlement of Insurance Company claims, is Just Fucking Dumb is still valid.



farglebargle -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (10/31/2007 10:42:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

First you pass a law to secure the border. Next you impose strict fines to any employer who hires illegal aliens. (once that supply of jobs are gone, they wont cross the border anymore anyway). Then to be here legally, you have to go back to your country of orgin and file the proper paperwork.

Yes I know this will never be passed because I dont think our government has done a damn thing in the past 50 years that puts any retraint or accountability on corporations.


Fuck more laws. Why don't we SIMPLY do this.

ATTENTION UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS:

IF YOU ARE HURT ON THE JOBSITE, YOU MUST FILE A WORKMAN'S COMPENSATION CLAIM WITH YOUR EMPLOYER'S INSURANCE COMPANY.

Problem solved.

No more undocumented workers. Once a few contractors get their Workman's Comp policy rerated for a few hundred thousand dollars MORE in back premiums, IF they don't cancel the policy outright for they lies told by the Employer, people will see there's no longer any benefit to hiring undocumented workers..



farglebargle -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (10/31/2007 10:44:18 PM)

quote:

the Leftist NY Times


LOL, that's hilarious. Leftest.

Calling the NYT "Leftist" is like calling GE and Westinghouse "Leftist".

Remember who abdicated their responsibility to Fact Check, as they printed Bush's lies about Iraq?




pinkme2 -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (10/31/2007 11:03:43 PM)

Driver's licenses aren't just about driving anymore.  Whoever's fault it may be, we still need to take into account what other purposes these lisences will be used for.  In many states, when you get your license, you also have an option to register to vote.  Hmmm...

So ID, voting, AND driving.  Again, either reduce the weight of licenses (which isn't happening considering what they are proposing to do with them now) or be sure the people you are giving them to are legal citizens.  



popeye1250 -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (10/31/2007 11:04:53 PM)

Fargle, there's more serious problems with giving these monkeys driver's liscenses.
Massive voter fraud for one.
Also, with a New York State liscense you can buy GUNS in South Carolina!
You think things are bad up there now?



popeye1250 -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (10/31/2007 11:32:23 PM)

The Gun Dealers in this state will be taking out ads in Spanish language newspapers up in New York if that driver's liscense thing for illegal aliens passes.
"Come on down to Myrtle Beach for a 4 or 5 day vacation on the beach while you buy your guns!"
"We stock all handguns, shotguns, rifles, sat. night specials, ammo, cheap, any gun you can think of we have!"
"Ten percent off with this ad!"
"Si, se puede!"
And we have to sell them to them too!
If we don't then that would be "predjudiced" now, wouldn't it?
There'll be more fuckin' guns in New York than there's ever been!
You better be real carefull who you cut off in traffic then!



pinkme2 -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (10/31/2007 11:44:17 PM)

Is it still illegal to own guns in NYC?



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