RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration?

RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (Full Version)

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SugarMyChurro -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (11/1/2007 12:02:16 AM)
Yeah, this is another BS topic for sure. Farglebargle has it down almost perfectly. The Driver's License is just another tool of control and collusion with your corporate masters. Welcome to the lootocracy. For those not knowing, the masters don't care what color you are or where you are from - they just want cheap labor. But I told you this already and got shot down by the message board geniuses.

Owner59 -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (11/1/2007 12:10:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Did anyone else catch the debate last night? That question about giving drivers licenses to illegal aliens seemed like alot of dodging and double talk. This rhetoric about waging the good fight for the last 16 years does not seem how someone should become President. I agree with Obama, it is time to create dialogue across the parties, and not stay in a deadlock over issues. I have looked and cannot find a solid decision anywhere, on whether Hillary wants to control illegal immigration or not. Does anyone have a link with her stance on it? Orion Can you give a straight answer as to why bush let`s so many millions of illegals into the US,every year? It went from about 3 million under Clinton,to over 8 million under bush. Why the mis-placed outrage? And,who`s in charge right now?It`s not Hillary...

pinkme2 -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (11/1/2007 12:39:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Did anyone else catch the debate last night? That question about giving drivers licenses to illegal aliens seemed like alot of dodging and double talk. This rhetoric about waging the good fight for the last 16 years does not seem how someone should become President. I agree with Obama, it is time to create dialogue across the parties, and not stay in a deadlock over issues. I have looked and cannot find a solid decision anywhere, on whether Hillary wants to control illegal immigration or not. Does anyone have a link with her stance on it? Orion Can you give a straight answer as to why bush let`s so many millions of illegals into the US,every year? If you were comparing similar things, you should ask Bush if his stance on illegals changed. But see... here's the thing.. Bush isn't running for President. Hillary is. That's why she's being asked these questions. quote: It went from about 3 million under Clinton,to over 8 million under bush. If they're illegal, and we don't know who or where they are... how do we know how many are here? Under Bush OR Clinton? And do you think Clinton was standing at the border stopping them or something?? LOL quote: Why the mis-placed outrage? I didn't hear outrage (whereever it's been placed). I heard a question from someone who is looking at the potential presidential nominees. quote: And,who`s in charge right now?It`s not Hillary... And who's running for Pres right now? It's not Bush....

subtee -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (11/1/2007 7:58:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 First you pass a law to secure the border. Next you impose strict fines to any employer who hires illegal aliens.* (once that supply of jobs are gone, they wont cross the border anymore anyway). Then to be here legally, you have to go back to your country of orgin and file the proper paperwork. Yes I know this will never be passed because I dont think our government has done a damn thing in the past 50 years that puts any retraint or accountability on corporations. *Emphasis added. This is, to me, the main impediment to any serious immigration reform or even change. I don't believe the employers will ever be reigned in because any politician who is electable will be beholden to big business and their attendant lobbies.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (11/1/2007 8:49:12 AM)
Follow along now, okay? Bush is not up for re-election, so I really don't care what his stance is on it. Why is what you want to know? Because he is a fucking corrupt, lying politician, just like Hillary. Do you feel a little better now? Why do you call it misplace outrage? 1) It does not seem right to me, but outrage would require me being really upset about it, which I am not. 2) I am equally as concerned about any elected official being a corrupt, scumbag, but just because I don't mention it, does not mean I am not concerned. 3) I understand you have an obsession with Bush, but at least focus someof it on the other republicans that you hate, so I can get some information that will be relevant to the primaries and elections. This is a topic about Hillary, but I have seen this tactic before, and it is always pathetic when I do see it. Let's see if you can understand this: WRONG IS WRONG, NO MATTER WHO IS DOING IT! If I can be of any further assistance in clarifying things, just let me know. Orion quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Did anyone else catch the debate last night? That question about giving drivers licenses to illegal aliens seemed like alot of dodging and double talk. This rhetoric about waging the good fight for the last 16 years does not seem how someone should become President. I agree with Obama, it is time to create dialogue across the parties, and not stay in a deadlock over issues. I have looked and cannot find a solid decision anywhere, on whether Hillary wants to control illegal immigration or not. Does anyone have a link with her stance on it? Orion Can you give a straight answer as to why bush let`s so many millions of illegals into the US,every year? It went from about 3 million under Clinton,to over 8 million under bush. Why the mis-placed outrage? And,who`s in charge right now?It`s not Hillary...

Owner59 -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (11/1/2007 9:30:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Follow along now, okay? Bush is not up for re-election, so I really don't care what his stance is on it. Why is what you want to know? Because he is a fucking corrupt, lying politician, just like Hillary. Do you feel a little better now? Why do you call it misplace outrage? 1) It does not seem right to me, but outrage would require me being really upset about it, which I am not. 2) I am equally as concerned about any elected official being a corrupt, scumbag, but just because I don't mention it, does not mean I am not concerned. 3) I understand you have an obsession with Bush, but at least focus someof it on the other republicans that you hate, so I can get some information that will be relevant to the primaries and elections. This is a topic about Hillary, but I have seen this tactic before, and it is always pathetic when I do see it. Let's see if you can understand this: WRONG IS WRONG, NO MATTER WHO IS DOING IT! If I can be of any further assistance in clarifying things, just let me know. Orion quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Did anyone else catch the debate last night? That question about giving drivers licenses to illegal aliens seemed like alot of dodging and double talk. This rhetoric about waging the good fight for the last 16 years does not seem how someone should become President. I agree with Obama, it is time to create dialogue across the parties, and not stay in a deadlock over issues. I have looked and cannot find a solid decision anywhere, on whether Hillary wants to control illegal immigration or not. Does anyone have a link with her stance on it? Orion Can you give a straight answer as to why bush let`s so many millions of illegals into the US,every year? It went from about 3 million under Clinton,to over 8 million under bush. Why the mis-placed outrage? And,who`s in charge right now?It`s not Hillary... Follow along now... bush will be president for more than a year,now(14 plus months). Every republican candidate(accept Paul) is running to the right of bush. None of them(accept Paul) will change a thing about immigration,legal or illegal.Post #: 13 And not for nothing,this is a federal mess.Not a state mess. bush,by disign,created and continues to create this mess. To bring you up to speed,corporite America owns bush,and he does as he`s told.bush is allowing this crap to happen,to drive the cost of labor down. A good analogy would be bush,secretly/discretely dumping ship loads of shit into our homes and towns,and letting us fight w/ each other over who created this smelly mess.All the while,he`s getting paid to dump the crap on us. That`s why I`m miffed, as to why the outrage is being misplaced. Hillary did not,nor did any of the other candidates, create this problem. Now that you have a forum here,why don`t you tell us how we should solve this very complicated problem,in simple ,straight answers. Take your time,and tackle every and all issues surrounding illegal immigration. Simple answers,like "close the border" and "lock`m all up",won`t do.Give us realistic,practical,manageable ways to deal with every aspect of this issue.One sided answers won`t cut it either,and never have.

awmslave -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (11/1/2007 9:46:09 AM)
The question was not actually about drivers licences. The real idea was to get clear answer from Mrs. Clinton what is her stand about illegal immigrants/illegal immigration. The result was: no clear answer (the same as about all other important issues). I find it funny that many Americans actually would vote for Mrs. Clinton thinking that this way they will elect William Clinton for the third term (as a shadow president). If White House will get a few pretty interns he may cooperate. G. Bush, W. Clinton and G.W. Bush are globalists and open borders advocates for free labor movment. So called "comprehensive immigration" bill was part of this agenda. If you are a busness owner, Wall Street financieer you would greatly benefit financially. I think the speed US ruling elite wants to push open borders agenda is because under the surface US is in deep financial trouble. It is difficult to come out with some other scheme to give economy a boost. Bush/Greenspan invented cheap credit policy that is running into dead end at this time.

popeye1250 -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (11/1/2007 9:55:18 AM)
I think every poster in here has a point. Owner, just because I slamed the Clintons doesn't mean I support that scumbag Bush. I still think he owes an apology to The Minutemen for calling them "vigilantes" for doing the job Bush should but isn't doing. The Bush/Clinton combo has been a disaster for this country. When 78% of the American People think, "we're headed in the wrong direction", we are! And Churro, good point too. We have a seperation of church and state in this country and we need to have a seperation of big business and state as well! Everything Bush has done has benefitted big business and nothing for the working person. We need to stop buying products that are made in China or from companies who have "outsourced" to foreign countries!

popeye1250 -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (11/1/2007 10:00:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 I think every poster in here has a point. Owner, just because I slamed the Clintons doesn't mean I support that scumbag Bush. I still think he owes an apology to The Minutemen for calling them "vigilantes" for doing the job Bush should but isn't doing. The Bush/Clinton combo has been a disaster for this country. When 78% of the American People think, "we're headed in the wrong direction", we are! And Churro, good point too. We have a separation of church and state in this country and we need to have a seperation of big business and state as well! Everything Bush has done has benefitted big business and nothing for the working person. We need to stop buying products that are made in China or from companies who have "outsourced" to foreign countries! Don't give them your money! As I mentioned in another thread, I have more than $11,000 in my savings account now over the last 2-3 years just from "not" buying cheap junk from China.

farglebargle -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (11/1/2007 10:01:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinkme2 Driver's licenses aren't just about driving anymore. Whoever's fault it may be, we still need to take into account what other purposes these lisences will be used for. They are issued to match up Drivers to Vehicles for the Insurance Companies when policy is rated, or a claim is filed. Don't try to "FIX" the problem of the Nazis WANTING to use your driver's license as your "Citizens' ID Card", by bolting on all sorts of muffler tips and big-ass-spoilers. To continue the mangled analogy -- It don't make the car go any faster. quote: In many states, when you get your license, you also have an option to register to vote. Hmmm... Yeah, back in the OLD DAYS, they just used to keep a pile of Voter Registration Forms on the counter. That aside, your voter eligibility is upon receipt of the form, BY LAW, ( In NYS ) verified by the Board of Elections -- within 21 days. And they can send the Sheriff over to interview you and your neighbors if you don't check out. So what's your point? quote: So ID, voting, AND driving. Again, either reduce the weight of licenses (which isn't happening considering what they are proposing to do with them now) or be sure the people you are giving them to are legal citizens. Using a document intending to identify Vehicle Operators for any other purpose is fucking stupid. Don't whine that doing fucking stupid things doesn't work. You need, say, to issue "Internal Passports" to citizens, so that you can verify their permission to board planes, and shit.

farglebargle -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (11/1/2007 10:04:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Fargle, there's more serious problems with giving these monkeys driver's liscenses. Massive voter fraud for one. Possession of a Driver's License DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO VOTE. Go read the NYS Election Law. Voter eligibility is decided by the Board of Elections after receipt of the form filed at the DMV. And MORE GUNS only makes things better. ( I'm one of the people who has what amounts to a Religious Taboo against gun regulation. ) WTF is up with South Carolina checking ID's anyway? ( I know, I know, they have to... )

farglebargle -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (11/1/2007 10:05:26 AM)
quote: The real idea was to get clear answer from Mrs. Clinton what is her stand about illegal immigrants/illegal immigration Rotsa Ruck. You want honesty, your best bets are Gravel, Kuscinich, and/or Paul, and even THEN your mileage is gonna vary!

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (11/1/2007 10:30:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Follow along now... bush will be president for more than a year,now(14 plus months). Really? Start another topic then. I am focusing on a specific point. quote: Every republican candidate(accept Paul) is running to the right of bush. None of them(accept Paul) will change a thing about immigration,legal or illegal.Post #: 13 Every republican candidate, or every candidate? quote: And not for nothing,this is a federal mess.Not a state mess. bush,by disign,created and continues to create this mess. We actually had a problem before Bush, but has gotten alot worse. This is why I am concerned about who may take over for him, since he obviously is not going to do anything. quote: To bring you up to speed,corporite America owns bush,and he does as he`s told.bush is allowing this crap to happen,to drive the cost of labor down. Corporate America is trying to own all of the politcians. This thread focuses on one of those politicians. quote: A good analogy would be bush,secretly/discretely dumping ship loads of shit into our homes and towns,and letting us fight w/ each other over who created this smelly mess.All the while,he`s getting paid to dump the crap on us. That`s why I`m miffed, as to why the outrage is being misplaced. Hillary did not,nor did any of the other candidates, create this problem. So how are the candidates going to address it if they were President? That seems like a very legitimate question. Do you disagree? quote: Now that you have a forum here,why don`t you tell us how we should solve this very complicated problem,in simple ,straight answers. Take your time,and tackle every and all issues surrounding illegal immigration. Have posted my ideas on immigration in other threads. You commented on them before, so I know you read them. If you want to start a thread about solutions, I will post on that. quote: Simple answers,like "close the border" and "lock`m all up",won`t do.Give us realistic,practical,manageable ways to deal with every aspect of this issue.One sided answers won`t cut it either,and never have. So what exactly is Hillary's solution and why does she give double talk? This is the point of my topic. I realize you do not like focus on that, but that is the OP. Have a nice day. Orion

popeye1250 -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (11/1/2007 10:54:03 AM)
Hillary Clinton is bought and paid for by big corporations too. Look at the amount of money she's raised from big companies! She uses Sillicon Valley like an ATM machine! And what do (they) want? Why more cheap foreign labor of course! Millions more "H1b" visas. Millions more "guest workers." More illegal aliens. If you work for a living and you vote for Hillary you're cutting your own throat.

Owner59 -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (11/1/2007 11:13:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Follow along now... bush will be president for more than a year,now(14 plus months). Really? Start another topic then. I am focusing on a specific point. quote: Every republican candidate(accept Paul) is running to the right of bush. None of them(accept Paul) will change a thing about immigration,legal or illegal.Post #: 13 Every republican candidate, or every candidate? quote: And not for nothing,this is a federal mess.Not a state mess. bush,by disign,created and continues to create this mess. We actually had a problem before Bush, but has gotten alot worse. This is why I am concerned about who may take over for him, since he obviously is not going to do anything. quote: To bring you up to speed,corporite America owns bush,and he does as he`s told.bush is allowing this crap to happen,to drive the cost of labor down. Corporate America is trying to own all of the politcians. This thread focuses on one of those politicians. quote: A good analogy would be bush,secretly/discretely dumping ship loads of shit into our homes and towns,and letting us fight w/ each other over who created this smelly mess.All the while,he`s getting paid to dump the crap on us. That`s why I`m miffed, as to why the outrage is being misplaced. Hillary did not,nor did any of the other candidates, create this problem. So how are the candidates going to address it if they were President? That seems like a very legitimate question. Do you disagree? quote: Now that you have a forum here,why don`t you tell us how we should solve this very complicated problem,in simple ,straight answers. Take your time,and tackle every and all issues surrounding illegal immigration. Have posted my ideas on immigration in other threads. You commented on them before, so I know you read them. If you want to start a thread about solutions, I will post on that. quote: Simple answers,like "close the border" and "lock`m all up",won`t do.Give us realistic,practical,manageable ways to deal with every aspect of this issue.One sided answers won`t cut it either,and never have. So what exactly is Hillary's solution and why does she give double talk? This is the point of my topic. I realize you do not like focus on that, but that is the OP. Have a nice day. Orion Have posted my ideas on immigration in other threads. You commented on them before, so I know you read them. If you want to start a thread about solutions, I will post on that. Great way to chicken out. What would you have said ,if Hillary gave an answer like,"you`ve all read my posts(thoughts) and know how I feel"? I imagine all kinds of belly aching. C`mon.Let`s have the straight answers,if it`s all that easy. Here`s your change to add,rather then mock.

pinkme2 -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (11/1/2007 11:20:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Follow along now... bush will be president for more than a year,now(14 plus months). YOU stay on topic. His entire thread is about HILLARY. Not Bush. Bush is not going to run again. So 14 months nonwithstanding, it's irrelevant. quote: Every republican candidate(accept Paul) is running to the right of bush. Left and Right don't mean much in this topic. Are you for or against drivers licenses for illegals? quote: None of them(accept Paul) will change a thing about immigration,legal or illegal.Post #: 13 He wouldn't change anything either. Truth is, the things that need to happen won't. quote: And not for nothing,this is a federal mess.Not a state mess. bush,by disign,created and continues to create this mess. I'm angry as anyone at Bush over his (non)stance on this. But he certainly didn't DESIGN or CREATE this. He inherited it. quote: To bring you up to speed,corporite America owns bush,and he does as he`s told.bush is allowing this crap to happen,to drive the cost of labor down. Get in touch with reality. quote: Hillary did not,nor did any of the other candidates, create this problem No, but basically, she could make it worse, if she's elected. quote: Now that you have a forum here,why don`t you tell us how we should solve this very complicated problem,in simple ,straight answers. I participate in many forums. I can tell you some of my opinions on how to solve it, but it's a rather complicated mess. quote: Take your time,and tackle every and all issues surrounding illegal immigration. Why? So you can misrepresent and insult me? quote: Simple answers,like "close the border" and "lock`m all up",won`t do.Give us realistic,practical,manageable ways to deal with every aspect of this issue.One sided answers won`t cut it either,and never have. You're already assuming things about me and my opinions. Quit.

pinkme2 -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (11/1/2007 11:25:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: pinkme2 Driver's licenses aren't just about driving anymore. Whoever's fault it may be, we still need to take into account what other purposes these lisences will be used for. They are issued to match up Drivers to Vehicles for the Insurance Companies when policy is rated, or a claim is filed. Don't try to "FIX" the problem of the Nazis WANTING to use your driver's license as your "Citizens' ID Card", by bolting on all sorts of muffler tips and big-ass-spoilers. To continue the mangled analogy -- It don't make the car go any faster. Honestly, why the hostility on this? I agree with you. But instead of talking imaginationland, I'm talking reality. quote: Yeah, back in the OLD DAYS, they just used to keep a pile of Voter Registration Forms on the counter. Yep. quote: That aside, your voter eligibility is upon receipt of the form, BY LAW, ( In NYS ) verified by the Board of Elections -- within 21 days. And they can send the Sheriff over to interview you and your neighbors if you don't check out. And do they do that? Do they actually do that? quote: Using a document intending to identify Vehicle Operators for any other purpose is fucking stupid. Don't whine that doing fucking stupid things doesn't work. You act as though I was promoting it! Quit being so hostile. I'm against using SS numbers, driver's licenses, etc for anything other than what they were designed. quote: You need, say, to issue "Internal Passports" to citizens, so that you can verify their permission to board planes, and shit. Or just use passports. shrug

cyberdude611 -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (11/1/2007 11:56:20 AM)
You can place blame for this or anything else on Bush....fine. But Hillary is running for President of the United States. As a candidate she needs to answer these tough questions about what her ideas and what she plans to do to fix it. This crap about beating around the bush and not answering the actual question to me sounds like deception and an attempt to change the topic. The only reason you do that in a debate is because you are uncomfortable with the question.....or you simply dont know the answer. And Hillary is not the only one... I am sick and tired of debates or questions where any candidate refuses to answer the actual question. If you dont know the answer, say so. If you have a plan, say it. Too many of these candidates are shaping their beliefs and opinions to whatever they think will get them elected.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (11/1/2007 12:07:48 PM)
So does this mean you don't want to start your own thread? Hijacking threads seems to be your favorite past time. Rather than stay on topic and tell us what is so great about Hillary's immigration stance, you do what? Typical liberal BS. How do you usually spell hypocrit? Orion

luckydog1 -> RE: Can Hillary give a straight answer on immigration? (11/1/2007 2:31:33 PM)
Can she give a straight answer on anything? A person has many legitimate needs to provide ID, living in the modern world. If you do not drive you can get a state ID card. For most people it is a convience to not have to get 2 cards, from the same agency. Drivers liscences are not a facist/corpratist scam, nor a plot to controll people. You can let your 3 year old drive around in circles on your own property with no liscence of any kind. You want to go on the Public road, you have to proove a minimum of competence and have it checked every so often. And you do have to have insurance, not for yourself but for others you might injure. Don't like it, walk. The people want it to be that way, in our democratic society (note Democratic is an adjective and does not mean democracy).

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