RE: Submission outside your comfort zone

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mistoferin -> RE: Submission outside your comfort zone (11/2/2007 8:25:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: laurell3 Being imperfect isn't a weakness or failure, it's being human. Human? Yes, I have to try to remember I'm just one of those....lol. I guess we really are the hardest on ourselves sometimes.

mistoferin -> RE: Submission outside your comfort zone (11/2/2007 8:31:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe Of course it is. That's why you need to feel that the Top is doing it from a sense of caring-rather than malice-or a power trip. See Rrafe, there's this rational part of my brain that can understand this perfectly....but then, of course, there is this other part that can't comprehend why anyone who does care would wish to see me spiral out of control, unravel and crumble to pieces....or how they would be able to have to same level of respect for me after they saw me turn into an emotional puddle. I really do know that that part of me is just being totally irrational...

RRafe -> RE: Submission outside your comfort zone (11/2/2007 8:40:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe Of course it is. That's why you need to feel that the Top is doing it from a sense of caring-rather than malice-or a power trip. See Rrafe, there's this rational part of my brain that can understand this perfectly....but then, of course, there is this other part that can't comprehend why anyone who does care would wish to see me spiral out of control, unravel and crumble to pieces....or how they would be able to have to same level of respect for me after they saw me turn into an emotional puddle. I really do know that that part of me is just being totally irrational... That's just it. I don't respect someone who can never be weak, or vulnerable-or out of control. That's just showing the fears that lead to being a control freak. When I woman shows she can trust me enough to show herself to me at her worst........and that I can accept it. That's when she has the most respect possible. It's a warm feeling, to know someone loves and trusts you enough to go there-and a rather remote, cold one-when she can't get over herself enough to even think of it.

Cuffkinks -> RE: Submission outside your comfort zone (11/2/2007 8:43:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: batshalom It is also his reaffirmation of his commitment to lead because it is a challenge for him as well. Despite his warm feelings for me, he has to be able to continue when I am obviously not comfortable doing a thing, maybe even crying or begging to stop. He has to maintain control throughout the event and pull me through to the end, still intact and healthy enough to feel like Aba's yaldah. Maybe it's a larger task for him, in fact. That's a very good point and I thank you for mentioning it. A Dominant must keep a given "situation" under control while at the same time constantly monitoring the sub to make sure she/he is alright. It can be demanding, but when it's over and both parties come through it together, the bond between them is usually stronger than it was before. It's a wonderful thing.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Submission outside your comfort zone (11/2/2007 8:59:32 AM)
quote: How do others feel about submission outside of their comfort zones? that the submission itself is not enough. there must be GENUINE interest and enthusiasm for whatever the activity is---regardless of this slave's comfort zone, past experiences or inexperience. activities or situations that have had negative past associations or that this slave has had NO experience with have caused this slave a certain level of discomfort---panic, anxiety, stress, fear of the unknown...and it was obvious. However, in this relationship, it is the Master's comfort and pleasure that are paramount, not the slave's. far from perfect, and with more work to do, this slave has been training, for almost 5 years now, under Master's awesome guidance, to attain a level of submission that does not consider personal comfort at all, regardless of the activity. this slave has had success with several things she had no experience with and also with one specific activity---a specific way this slave was raped when she was younger---is now a pleasurable activity for Master that this slave participates in with enthusiasm and pride. there is no more crying, frustration, her stomach doesn't turn anymore, that overwhelming urge to run away has gone---it didn't just happen overnight, or after the first try. it was something that had to be worked through, physically, mentally and emotionally, sometimes alone and sometimes with Master there. Master has helped His slave to graft positive experiences over a very ugly scar, has held her hand and her gaze as well as watched her back while she has experienced too many things to even count that she had never experienced before. this slave will always be grateful to Master for taking her WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY beyond her comfort zone to a place where HIS comfort, HIS pleasure, what HE wants, is not just the most important thing, but the ONLY thing in her focus.

mistoferin -> RE: Submission outside your comfort zone (11/2/2007 9:10:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe Of course it is. That's why you need to feel that the Top is doing it from a sense of caring-rather than malice-or a power trip. See Rrafe, there's this rational part of my brain that can understand this perfectly....but then, of course, there is this other part that can't comprehend why anyone who does care would wish to see me spiral out of control, unravel and crumble to pieces....or how they would be able to have to same level of respect for me after they saw me turn into an emotional puddle. I really do know that that part of me is just being totally irrational... That's just it. I don't respect someone who can never be weak, or vulnerable-or out of control. That's just showing the fears that lead to being a control freak. When I woman shows she can trust me enough to show herself to me at her worst........and that I can accept it. That's when she has the most respect possible. It's a warm feeling, to know someone loves and trusts you enough to go there-and a rather remote, cold one-when she can't get over herself enough to even think of it. I am sure that this is an issue for me that can only resolve with time. When I was in a long term and deeply committed relationship, I had absolutely no issues with revealing my vulnerabilities. He saw all of my sides...good and bad, strong and weak...and I didn't attach any negativity to having him see me at my "worst". I always found comfort and strength in his arms and I was absolutely free to feel as though I could let down every wall and defense. I find though, that it is a much more difficult thing to do when there has not been time for such a bond to be built...such a trust established. Allowing oneself to be vulnerable to someone who you have not been through it with before is a difficult thing....at least for me. Not that I can't....just that it definitely adds a higher level of anxiety.

mistoferin -> RE: Submission outside your comfort zone (11/2/2007 9:12:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth it didn't just happen overnight, or after the first try. it was something that had to be worked through, physically, mentally and emotionally, sometimes alone and sometimes with Master there. Yup...baby steps...lol.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Submission outside your comfort zone (11/2/2007 9:24:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe Of course it is. That's why you need to feel that the Top is doing it from a sense of caring-rather than malice-or a power trip. See Rrafe, there's this rational part of my brain that can understand this perfectly....but then, of course, there is this other part that can't comprehend why anyone who does care would wish to see me spiral out of control, unravel and crumble to pieces....or how they would be able to have to same level of respect for me after they saw me turn into an emotional puddle. I really do know that that part of me is just being totally irrational... Hi Erin, if I can chime in here just a bit... It is because he cares about me that he is willing to put me there. Because he knows what it will do for me. It would be a lot easier for him to just let me skate along easily. But he wants better for me than that, so he brings me to the edge of myself, so that I can expand. As for the respect you spoke of (and I'll probably echo RRafe here a bit), he has more respect, because of the courage I showed in going through it, and because of my ability to make myself totally vulnerable to him and strip myself of my own pride to do so. Those are the moments when the deepest bonding occurs. When I am a mess on the floor, looking up at him with tears streaming down my face, totally helpless to him and what he has just done and looking to him, rather than to myself, for comfort. And then I kiss his feet and thank him for it. But yes, this takes time to build. As beth mentioned, some things take numerous times to work through, for many reasons. But when you show not just a willingness to work through it but a need to do it for him....you shine in his eyes (personally speaking, of course).

laurell3 -> RE: Submission outside your comfort zone (11/2/2007 9:25:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL: laurell3 Being imperfect isn't a weakness or failure, it's being human. Human? Yes, I have to try to remember I'm just one of those....lol. I guess we really are the hardest on ourselves sometimes. so true

Abraxus -> RE: Submission outside your comfort zone (11/2/2007 10:16:22 AM)
<-----has green beans ready and waiting for the chase lol

mistoferin -> RE: Submission outside your comfort zone (11/2/2007 10:20:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Abraxus <-----has green beans ready and waiting for the chase lol Twice, I'm putting Scooter on speed dial....you have just sunk your own ship!!! (gagging already at just the thought!)

Cyntilating -> RE: Submission outside your comfort zone (11/2/2007 3:46:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AEslaveM How very beautiful your words and thoughts are..................and i think you speak for many of us in the things that you have done and accomplished with his guidance and care............ Thank you! smiles you're welcome...and thank you for yours..

RRafe -> RE: Submission outside your comfort zone (11/2/2007 7:29:38 PM)
And from the other side, girls I have dated took me beyond a lot of my comfort zones as well. Just by suggesting that I COULD feel safe doing nasty horrible things to thier helpless bodies. I mean, really, do you think Tops get this strange all on thier own?[:D] We have LOTS of help!!!!!!!

Twicehappy2x -> RE: Submission outside your comfort zone (11/3/2007 3:28:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL: Abraxus <-----has green beans ready and waiting for the chase lol Twice, I'm putting Scooter on speed dial....you have just sunk your own ship!!! (gagging already at just the thought!) I am sad and hurt by this post, i thought you already had us on speed dial. Hmm....let me email you with some nasty things to tell him on the other side......

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Submission outside your comfort zone (11/3/2007 8:04:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth slave will always be grateful to Master for taking her WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY beyond her comfort zone to a place where HIS comfort, HIS pleasure, what HE wants, is not just the most important thing, but the ONLY thing in her focus. But you say you take pleasure in experiences which were previously unpleasureable for you. In order for you to believe you experienced "pleasure" you MUST take into account your own personal comfort level in the assessment process. In order for his pleasure to be the ONLY thing in your focus, that must mean that you do not assess what you experience as negative OR positive.

batshalom -> RE: Submission outside your comfort zone (11/3/2007 8:54:48 AM)
I don't know, LA. That seems like a case of semantics to me. It was a good post, I see what beth is saying, which is that she finds Merc's leadership to be ultimately positive (or, I'm assuming, she wouldn't be able to only focus on his pleasure, comfort, wants, and needs).

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Submission outside your comfort zone (11/3/2007 2:55:46 PM)
There's a very big difference between making the masters comfort and desires the primary and only relevant part of a slave's experience and making the masters comfort and desires truly the ONLY consideration a slave takes into place. Unless Merc orders Beth to take pleasure in all of the experiences he gives her, and thus she would have to try and translate all experiences into direct pleasure to follow orders- but then she'd still be assessing her OWN pleasure and comfort levels in order to accommodate her masters orders, which goes against saying she ONLY wants to assess her masters pleasure and comfort.

batshalom -> RE: Submission outside your comfort zone (11/3/2007 3:22:34 PM)
I see what you're saying, yes (and please let me know if I am reading you wrong, LA - internet communication can become convoluted at times) but I think it's a case of beth being assured that Merc wants her to find symbiotic and autonomous pleasure. For example, if beth were unhappy all the time unless she was glued to Merc or his direct orders, I believe Merc would be a frustrated and irritated man. They take pleasure in each other - not just in the M/s part of the relationship - he in her happiness and she in his. It would be difficult for any relationship or dynamic to survive in a vacuum, fantastical actually, and they seem to be quite down to earth.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Submission outside your comfort zone (11/3/2007 3:28:53 PM)
Well my questions had nothing to do with down to earthedness, simply the seeming contradictions in what Beth says she experiences and that leading her to her goal and what she says the goal actually is.

batshalom -> RE: Submission outside your comfort zone (11/4/2007 3:53:56 AM)
Oh thank heavens this wasn't something difficult to answer. I've had two cups of coffee and have replied on some other threads, but you my friend keep me on my toes and make me think (and most of the time I thank you for it). I could not have handled deep thinking this morning so now I thank you for the brief respite. ~smiling~

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