Submissives who are challenged by submission vs. ambivalent about it

Submissives who are challenged by submission vs. ambivalent about it (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress

Message

AAkasha -> Submissives who are challenged by submission vs. ambivalent about it (11/1/2007 2:58:11 PM)
I absolutely love it when a submissive has a sort of love/hate relationship with various acts of submission. He fears them and desires them at the same time. He may think about them, but when faced with doing them, he finds it's harder than he thought. But most important, these are acts that he desires, on some level, but could never really bring himself to do unless he was under the direction of a woman he wanted to submit to. He can't just do them on his own. He has to do them for a woman, and she has to enjoy it, and sometimes he has to be motivated beyond that to find it in him to submit to the act. I find this incredibly erotic. Ther's another kind of love/hate relationship with submission, but it's much different. This is the submissive who submits to things and then afterwards, feels like crap about it. He crashes and burns almost every time, and then after you put him back together again, he continues to fall apart the next time. His self dread is awful - he is ambivalent, disgusted with himself, throws away his toys, cuts off contact, vanishes for periods of time. But he always comes back to it and says he is ok -- but it happens again. This kind of love/hate is a rollercoaster I try to stay off of. I found that some submissive men could get past this once they learned they were ok, and it was ok to have those desires. But others really, really despised their submissive side and had such self hate after submitting that it was unhealthy. Have others observed this kind of duality -- and, how do you personally determine if you are dealing with a #2 if it is worth trying to salvage? Akasha

Lordandmaster -> RE: Submissive's who are challenged by submission vs. ambivalent about it (11/1/2007 3:02:48 PM)
No. 2 may be more common among male subs than female subs because of all the messages we get that men are supposed to be strong and women are supposed to compliant. Of course there are female subs with a love/hate complex when it comes to submission, humiliation, pain, and so on, but in my experience there have been more No. 1 types than No. 2 types. No. 2 types basically need to come to grips with who they are and what they need, and that's probably something they need to work out on their own before they're ready for a d/s relationship.

CdnExplorer -> RE: Submissive's who are challenged by submission vs. ambivalent about it (11/1/2007 4:02:30 PM)
I've observed that duality in myself. I was very young when I realized the feelings I was getting were different, and had no support network of any kind to work through understanding them. What I was able to find was porn centred around men who were weak and basically had no masculinity, which was completely contrary to my personality. Having nobody to talk to and seeing similiarities between that and my interests, I figured that was the conclusion. (Hey, I was a kid!). This turned into a cycle where over a period of about 10 years I'd go out and explore, find things that really seemed to go against my self image, become disgusted with myself for feeling this way and then pretended I didn't actually feel anything like that. Being a guy I had the whole "gotta be strong" thing taught to me my entire life, but I also had developed an intensely independent personality. While my submissive desires were getting equated with sissy and wimp I just couldn't accept that as being part of myself. Once I found a couple groups of people to talk to who got to know me first before sticking a bunch of labels on me I was able to work through all those feelings, and figure out how I could be submissive and still "me". I think there are probably a lot of guys that fall into the second category that can be salvaged, as long as you move slowly and help them work through the idea that they aren't bad people for wanting what they want.

YoungAsianCutie -> RE: Submissive's who are challenged by submission vs. ambivalent about it (11/1/2007 6:18:17 PM)
This type of behavior I suspect runs rampant in the submissive culture. I mean, think about it, because sexual desires and logic really are quite independent, yet inhabit the same mind, it wouldn't be too hard to see those two grind against each other-- and cause ambivalence in the sub's long term behavior. I think the best way to go about it is to work gradually (which I think would be fun for both parties too), and slowly introduce more image challenging tasks, while importantly reminding the sub of other ways you are bonded together that are more consistent with society's images (as in vanilla?). Of course I have 0 experience so there's a very good chance that I'd be wrong.

aidan -> RE: Submissives who are challenged by submission vs. ambivalent about it (11/1/2007 11:17:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha I absolutely love it when a submissive has a sort of love/hate relationship with various acts of submission. He fears them and desires them at the same time. He may think about them, but when faced with doing them, he finds it's harder than he thought. But most important, these are acts that he desires, on some level, but could never really bring himself to do unless he was under the direction of a woman he wanted to submit to. He can't just do them on his own. He has to do them for a woman, and she has to enjoy it, and sometimes he has to be motivated beyond that to find it in him to submit to the act. I find this incredibly erotic. Of the two categories presented, I fall closer to this one. The difference I have is that I find myself to be very eager, very open and very willing about my submission. I don't have a 'love/hate' relationship with it because I so enjoy the things I do, even if that enjoyment is sometimes by osmosis because the person I'm submitting to enjoys my suffering or pain or discomfort. I have things that make me anxious and maybe even a little fearful, but I actively seek to confront those things and learn to embrace them. I'm eager to grow and expand. I generally don't need that extra encouragement beyond the fact that my partner is enjoy herself, because I'm already so motivated by that idea. I think the only struggle I have with my submission is: if I don't have that sense of fear/anxiety/unwillingness...Is it still submission?

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Submissives who are challenged by submission vs. ambivalent about it (11/2/2007 12:37:33 AM)
It's called 'purging'. Closet cross dressers do it all the time. Someone who is full of self loathing will not ever accept themselves if they really don't want to...and there's nothing that we can do to help them along if they don't want to be helped. Master Fire

Lashra -> RE: Submissives who are challenged by submission vs. ambivalent about it (11/2/2007 5:08:26 AM)
My sub and I went through a rough last year. When I met him he was a Gorean Master and that was how he had lived for about six years. When he met me and we developed a relationship he was at a crossroads because as a Femdom I went against everything he had been taught. I tried to remain neutral and told him search your soul with open eyes and see where it leads you. After doing much research he found that the Gorean ways were not his true way as he had thought and so he left that path. j had always had submissive feelings and has a submissive nature. He loves to please and so with me he felt comfortable enough to drop the "mask" he had been wearing for so long. We proceeded slowly with caution as I wanted to ease him into the role. The first year went by very well, he learned quickly and all was well. But the second year brought challenges as he fought to deal with some inner turmoil. He loved who he was when he was submissive, but another part of him feared that what society had taught him about submissive males might be true. Even more so, he feared that I would think of him as a "gimp". We had an entire year of petty arguments and at one point I was nearly close to tossing in the towel. But a part of me said that it was just a period of adjustment that needed to be ridden out. He suffered from severe subdrop and anixety, he was argumentative with me, he would want to play but once we started he would act up. Finally I sat him down and said TELL me what is going on! He admitted he was afraid of loosing me by showing me his submission. This made NO sense to me as I love submissive men, but to him he had worn a mask for so long that he was afraid that I would eventually tire of him. Society had taught him that women want dominant males and the submissive women he had relationships with reinforced this by telling him they wanted him to dominant them and they would become nasty with him if he didn't because it is what a they believed male does. I told him SOME women may want dominant males, but not all of us. I certainly do not. I am a drama free person and I want to keep my life that way. Two dominants do not always get along and I will not submit to the will of another. So finally I knew what the problem was and it took just a couple of months to fix. Now he is a very happy submissive who I cherish and who loves and adores me. To date we have not had anymore problems and j seems to be doing very well. He still suffers from subdrop, but his anixety seems to have leveled off. Sometimes I think it is just natural for everyone to ponder their place in a relationship and to fear loosening the one we love. It is a storm that has to be ridden out in most cases, but in some I think it could be that the fear holds them in such a grip that they just can't get past it. Fear can be a very powerful Mistress! ~Lashra

beeble -> RE: Submissives who are challenged by submission vs. ambivalent about it (11/2/2007 5:36:29 AM)
In the past, I was occasionally the second type. There were times when, after playing on my own or online, I'd feel bad about what I'd just done and lose interest for a little while, though usually, only a few days. I wouldn't say that I felt guilty or anything like that; just somehow empty and maybe even a bit used. I think the problem was not so much what I was doing but the context around it. Or, rather, the lack of context. With my Mistress, I'm definitely the first type. We have a list as long as your arm of things that she wants to do to me that I absolutely dread but get massively turned on thinking about. We both know how much I want and need these things but, any time she does any of them, I'll beg and beg her not to. She loves the conflict in me when we discuss these things and it does make me feel extremely submissive to her. Sometimes, Mistress makes me do things that I feel a bit bad about but, when we've talked about it afterwards, everything has been resolved. I'm sure that, if there was something I still felt bad about after talking it over, Mistress wouldn't ask me to do that again. Being able to talk about it is the context that was missing before, even though this is still an online relationship -- stoopid continents! I know that Mistress loves me and will be there for me and that lets me do things I couldn't otherwise do.

thetammyjo -> RE: Submissives who are challenged by submission vs. ambivalent about it (11/2/2007 5:44:28 AM)
I honestly just don't deal with submissives in either of these two groups. Someone can change and deal with changes about how they feel about submission or consensual slavery, Fox went through a summer like that during our second year, but if someone was this way when they came to me, I just don't have the time and energy. I am not a therapist. Someone needs to be fairly sure and happy with himself before I'll invest my time.

beeble -> RE: Submissives who are challenged by submission vs. ambivalent about it (11/2/2007 7:30:41 AM)
I don't see the first type of sub as being one who is not happy with himself or in need of a therapist-Domme. Just somebody who is drawn to things s/he finds challenging. (Standard disclaimers apply; your taste in subs in your taste in subs; etc.)

SlaveSubtoserve -> RE: Submissives who are challenged by submission vs. ambivalent about it (11/2/2007 7:45:15 AM)
....and that's why it can be so helpful to the sub experiencing either 1 or 2 above for the Mistress to be insightful enough re the sub's pleasure/erotic buttons to push them simultaneously with the above challenges to help things along espec in the beginning....

thetammyjo -> RE: Submissives who are challenged by submission vs. ambivalent about it (11/2/2007 10:00:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beeble I don't see the first type of sub as being one who is not happy with himself or in need of a therapist-Domme. Just somebody who is drawn to things s/he finds challenging. (Standard disclaimers apply; your taste in subs in your taste in subs; etc.) I just do not believe it is healthy to have any sort of hatred toward one's sexual or kink desires. "hate" is the word the OP used and I can only go by what she proposed. Personally I think these dualistic questions ignore reality. Most people do not fall into only two simple categories. There is an entire continuum of behavior, practice, motivation and feelings.

AAkasha -> RE: Submissives who are challenged by submission vs. ambivalent about it (11/2/2007 11:25:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo quote: ORIGINAL: beeble I don't see the first type of sub as being one who is not happy with himself or in need of a therapist-Domme. Just somebody who is drawn to things s/he finds challenging. (Standard disclaimers apply; your taste in subs in your taste in subs; etc.) I just do not believe it is healthy to have any sort of hatred toward one's sexual or kink desires. "hate" is the word the OP used and I can only go by what she proposed. Personally I think these dualistic questions ignore reality. Most people do not fall into only two simple categories. There is an entire continuum of behavior, practice, motivation and feelings. C'mon..surely you have heard the term "love/hate" and know what it means. People who have a "love/hate" relationship with exercise don't need therapy to reconcile their issues with being healthy. The "hate" in the phrase "love/hate" is not a core, emotional HATRED in every sense of the word. It is a phrase used to capture something more casual than the kind of self-loathing and hatred I described in the second example. Akasha

PhDslave -> RE: Submissives who are challenged by submission vs. ambivalent about it (11/2/2007 3:20:56 PM)
Dear Aakasha, i'm definitely the first example. On one level i try to resist submission, but am inevitable drawn to those Women who can combine vanilla and D/s appeal.

thetammyjo -> RE: Submissives who are challenged by submission vs. ambivalent about it (11/2/2007 4:55:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo quote: ORIGINAL: beeble I don't see the first type of sub as being one who is not happy with himself or in need of a therapist-Domme. Just somebody who is drawn to things s/he finds challenging. (Standard disclaimers apply; your taste in subs in your taste in subs; etc.) I just do not believe it is healthy to have any sort of hatred toward one's sexual or kink desires. "hate" is the word the OP used and I can only go by what she proposed. Personally I think these dualistic questions ignore reality. Most people do not fall into only two simple categories. There is an entire continuum of behavior, practice, motivation and feelings. C'mon..surely you have heard the term "love/hate" and know what it means. People who have a "love/hate" relationship with exercise don't need therapy to reconcile their issues with being healthy. The "hate" in the phrase "love/hate" is not a core, emotional HATRED in every sense of the word. It is a phrase used to capture something more casual than the kind of self-loathing and hatred I described in the second example. Akasha I know the phrase but I still don't think these are the only two categories of submissives and I still frankly prefer someone who is cool with what he/she wants and needs rather than someone who has to have another be their excuse for doing things. Personally I use the term "hate" very rarely so when I see it, I interpret it that way. Don't get distracted by me though, this is my take on things and nothing more.

MuscleCuteClever -> RE: Submissives who are challenged by submission vs. ambivalent about it (11/3/2007 7:21:59 AM)
When I was in skool I was the only boy in the girls netball team, you know what girls are like in a heated game of netball? screaming hyper maniacs. I stood there as they all shouted at me and thought "Ooooh this is HHHOT!" so I did as I was told and we won all the games. At the end of term a girl asked me if I was going to the same next establishment as her afterwards, it seemed important to her I didnt know why then a couple of years down the line when we happened across each others path (CDT class) she would bully the shit out of me. I never let her come to me Birthday party no matter how much she asked because she asked in Domme mode, I think if I had accepted it would have been her party if you know what I mean.

chiaThePet -> RE: Submissives who are challenged by submission vs. ambivalent about it (11/3/2007 7:28:22 AM)
Hi MuscleyAndCute....er....FashionModel....er....MuscleCuteClever, welcome back, have fun. Oops, that was FitnessModel, my bad. chia* (the pet)

undergroundsea -> RE: Submissives who are challenged by submission vs. ambivalent about it (11/3/2007 7:58:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo Most people do not fall into only two simple categories. There is an entire continuum of behavior, practice, motivation and feelings. I agree. Cheers, Sea

Smythe -> RE: Submissives who are challenged by submission vs. ambivalent about it (11/3/2007 10:35:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: undergroundsea quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo Most people do not fall into only two simple categories. There is an entire continuum of behavior, practice, motivation and feelings. I agree. Cheers, Sea Naturally, that's true, but I don't think that means that Akasha's 2 categories aren't valid. There are just more than 2. Anyway, I have to agree about type #1. I like the sense that a boy is facing a challenge for me. My boy sometimes describes it as the feeling when you are belted into a roller coaster, just before the ride starts. Yikes, how did I get here, this seems scary, I don't know what will happen but I am not in control. It's a little leap of faith, and I am touched each time my boy makes it for me. It's not drama or personal mishegoss. It's trust and faith and just a little fear. Smythe

MuscleCuteClever -> RE: Submissives who are challenged by submission vs. ambivalent about it (11/3/2007 11:54:28 AM)
Incedentaly an inspecific comment; Power should be treated with responsibility and those who arent should be shunned or else decent subs wont be bred. There isnt as much responsibility in the scene in general as there should be particularly online.

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875