RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (Full Version)

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Sanity -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/1/2007 8:20:30 PM)

Here's an interesting development, a compromise;

quote:



http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071101/wl_mideast_afp/irannuclearpoliticsgcc_071101185245

Gulf states suggest Iran nuclear compromise: report




Arab states in the Gulf have come up with a compromise aimed at defusing the crisis between the West and Iran over its disputed nuclear programme, a specialised Middle East publication said on Thursday.
The six-member Gulf Cooperation Council has proposed to Iran that it create a multinational consortium to provide enriched uranium to the Islamic republic as a way of resolving the standoff, Middle East Economic Digest (MEED) reported on its website.

It said Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal told MEED in London that the plan would mean Tehran could continue developing nuclear energy while removing fears that the project was a cover for an atomic weapons drive.

"We have proposed a solution, which is to create a consortium for all users of enriched uranium in the Middle East," he said.

"(We will) do it in a collective manner through a consortium that will distribute according to needs, give each plant its own necessary amount, and ensure no use of this enriched uranium for atomic weapons," MEED quoted Faisal as saying.

The five veto-wielding permanent members of the UN Security Council -- Britain, China, France, Russia and the United States -- and Germany will meet on Friday in London to discuss strengthening UN sanctions against Tehran.

The Security Council has already passed two resolutions imposing sanctions in response to Iran's failure to heed ultimatums to halt enrichment activities and the United States is pushing for a third.
Under the reported GCC plan, its members -- Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) -- would establish a uranium enrichment plant in a neutral country outside the Middle East.

The plant would produce nuclear fuel that would then be provided to Middle East nations seeking to harness atomic energy.
Algeria, Egypt, Jordan, Libya and Yemen as well as the six GCC states have all said that they want to pursue peaceful nuclear projects.

Faisal told MEED he believed the new plant "should be in a neutral country -- Switzerland, for instance."

"Any plant in the Middle East that needs enriched uranium would get its quota. I don't think other Arab states would refuse. In fact, since the decision of the GCC to enter into this industry, the other Arab countries have expressed a desire to be part of the proposal."
He added that Iran was considering the GCC offer.

"We hope the Iranians will accept this proposal. We continue to talk to them and urge them not only to look at the issue from the perspective of the needs of Iran for energy, but also in the interests of the security of the region," he said.

"The US is not involved, but I don't think it (would be) hostile to this, and it would resolve a main area of tension between the West and Iran."

Meanwhile, Iranian officials said they were satisfied with the results of their latest talks with the UN atomic agency.

The talks were part of a deal the International Atomic Energy Agency clinched in August for Iran to answer outstanding questions over its atomic programme so the IAEA can conclude a four-year investigation into its nature.

 Imagine that.




FullfigRIMaam -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/1/2007 8:24:54 PM)

I think we're already heading down in a handbasket having gone to Iraq and pissed off everyone who wasn't already pissed off with us because of our phucked policies and greed...
Heaven forbid we actually carry out this terrible idea beyond hype.   M




kdsub -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/1/2007 8:40:24 PM)

Now if I were running Iran, I would build my nuclear facilities right in the middle of my biggest oil field… that way they would never need to worry about a strike from the United States. Big oil would never allow it.

If I were running the US I would do a few things things.

1st ….Since we use more than 50 percent of the oil produced in the world I would give the oil suppliers a time limit to settle the Israeli and terrorist situations or I would open our oil war reserves and not buy a drop from Opec….ration fuel at home….see if they can eat their oil. They may be able to outlast us but it would hurt more than they would be willing to pay I’ll bet…I’d rather fight a war by paying high fuel prices and rationing than fight one with guns.

2nd….I would force big oil to have a viable fuel alternative to oil in 10 years and mean it. I would give big tax breaks to our automotive companies if they would work together with big oil to use the new fuel and set up distribution systems.

I truly believe Americans would pay high fuel prices to NOT be dependent on oil from the Middle East and Venezuela.

Butch




FullfigRIMaam -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/1/2007 9:32:10 PM)

quote:

Now if I were running Iran, I would build my nuclear facilities right in the middle of my biggest oil field… that way they would never need to worry about a strike from the United States. Big oil would never allow it.

If I were running the US I would do a few things things.

1st ….Since we use more than 50 percent of the oil produced in the world I would give the oil suppliers a time limit to settle the Israeli and terrorist situations or I would open our oil war reserves and not buy a drop from Opec….ration fuel at home….see if they can eat their oil. They may be able to outlast us but it would hurt more than they would be willing to pay I’ll bet…I’d rather fight a war by paying high fuel prices and rationing than fight one with guns.
These are fantastic ideas, especially if they were put in place before we attacked Iraq, and before we got everything made for the usa in other countries, so that they've become so rich from the money, they are needing as much oil as we do...  So they wouldn't go hungry because China, India, and European countries would pick up where we left off.    M




UtopianRanger -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/1/2007 9:42:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Zogby asked the following question:
"Based on what you know about Iran's development of a nuclear program, how supportive are you of a U.S. military strike to prevent Iran from building a nuclear weapon?"
 
26% said they strongly favor a strike
26% said they somewhat favor a strike
14% said they not very supportive of a strike
27% said they did not support a strike at all

Adding up the totals... 52% said they would favor an attack. Compared to 41% who do not favor...

http://www.zogby.com/wf-Zogby-10-29-07.pdf



I'd rather see air strikes on the{false} free market, the American Enterprise Institute and any/all undisclosed, fortified compounds in both Washington DC and Wyoming.

If that's unacceptable to group.....I'll cede to just a high-powered, pulse microwave device—capable of pacemaker implosion-- pointed at designated target areas of DC and Wyoming.







- R




UtopianRanger -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/1/2007 9:58:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

"Based on what you know about Iran's development of a nuclear program, how supportive are you of a U.S. military strike to prevent Iran from building a nuclear weapon?"

It's based on a false premise, that being Iran IS NOT BUILDING NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

So, I'm pretty sure the results are meaningless, given the fantasy-context of the poll.

It says more about the Ignorance of the respondents than anything else.



Someone is paying attention [;)]



- R




meatcleaver -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 12:34:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I say the U.S. sit this one out.
Let the European Union deal with Iran.


Er...popeye....it is the US that has the problem with Iran, not the European Union.




LadyEllen -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 3:47:29 AM)

Without passing comment on the Americans here - who for the most part seem educated and informed, I wonder what the answers would have been if a made up country had been substituted for Iran in the question?

E




Petronius -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 4:13:27 AM)

I mention the not-very-bright Republican crowd and their bumper-sticker sized advertising jingles that pass for analysis and adult thinking.

Let's look at "xBullx" who feels the need to advertise that he's "evil."

"... truth is a three sided illusion. It's a matter of perspective."

"Fuck the rest."

"Kill'em all; let God sort'em out...."

"Stop whining about the war talk and insist the Government fight this war the right way...."

"... the other dickhead, I can't spell his name, and he's not worth looking it up."

"Blah, fucking blah,"

"chances are, you're just as blind to the truth as the folks you trash with your proclomation. [sic]"

"Read the Constitution once would ya. "

They've all got zero meaning in this discussion. But they appear to pass for people like xBullx as the way that adults actually conduct serious adult inquiry.

So when I write "advertising jingles" I mean just that.

And look at xBullx's various arguments and see how many actually would fit on bumper stickers.






Sanity -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 5:56:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Petronius

I mention the not-very-bright Republican crowd and their bumper-sticker sized advertising jingles that pass for analysis and adult thinking.


It's so funny you should say that, because whenever I see the back of a vehicle covered with bumper stickers, they're usually either born-agains or they're hate-Bush Liberals, and the only way to tell which is which is to get close enough to read them.

Bumper sticker mentalities - I'll have to remember that one...




xBullx -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 6:45:51 AM)



Well since you’re kinda new here; so I'll clue you in, I'm not a political correct type a fellow. And my comments almost always have serious meaning you; just have to be deeper than an Arizona mud puddle in August to get them.

But since it's so difficult for you, I'll give you an assist.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Petronius

I mention the not-very-bright Republican crowd and their bumper-sticker sized advertising jingles that pass for analysis and adult thinking.


If your assuming I'm a Republican, try again, I'm an independent free thinking man, an American, one like Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Rufus King, Daniel Carroll, William Blount, Richard Basset and a whole host of other courageous men meant to follow in their footsteps.  I think on my own without the assist of a political support group. Though I have toyed with the idea of making one of my own.

Oh, and you can leave off the x's, everyone knows who Bull is.

quote:



Let's look at "xBullx" who feels the need to advertise that he's "evil."



That's CM that says I'm evil, though they might be right, that would be their perception though and not my own. However, if you would like to discover that for yourself sometime, something might be able to be worked out.

quote:


"... truth is a three sided illusion. It's a matter of perspective."


Truth is always a matter of perspective in the absence of proof, and proof is also a matter of visual perspective and hence an illusion in many cases. I'm sure you have heard the old adage; don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you actually see. Well the actually see number is much less than half nowadays. What is Iran hiding? What is the truth? Who stands to gain what? I hope the relevance is becoming more vivid for you.

quote:


"Fuck the rest."


I enjoy sex; don't you? In the event you don't, look at it this way. Perhaps we should mind our own business until someone fucks with us, and then hit them three fold versus all this being nice shit, or worrying about who is more civilized. Being civilized is also a matter of perspective.

Ohhh, wait that's what someone said we were doing prior to 9/11, or at least that was the perspective. Now Iran is also fucking with us and our Allies. Proof is available if you care to acknowledge it. So now it would seem they don't respect our credibility, maybe that's because some folks don't have the stomach to do what they should as adult males. However 52 % seem to be changing the tide here. That may or may not be the correct direction, again perspective. I do however see relevance in my comments so I hope it's becoming clearer for you. I could type all of this on a bumper sticker for you though if it's hard for you to see a perspective other than your own. But I'd have to slow way down as I passed your short bus so you could read it all.

quote:


"Kill'em all; let God sort'em out...."


That is a nice ole line isn't it, I've always been fond of it. It may not be the most civilized course of actions, but if folks know you will go there, more often than not, they won't. You do realize you are an animal on this planet and that only your arrogance offers you an elevated position from which to oversee the others. Again, if Iran knew we were men of our word, would they really be fucking around? This all seems relevant enough to me.

quote:


"Stop whining about the war talk and insist the Government fight this war the right way...."


Really, while you are distracted with the talk of war you are missing the point, that if Iran didn't have all this power in their hands due to oil, they would be irrelevant and none of this would be an issue. Some little gal a few posts ago gets the idea, develop ways to rid our dependence on oil, it serves the world three fold, this annoying fight becomes a moot point. Apart from the nukes that is. But if we didn't need their oil, they wouldn't, one, have money to build the shit, two; you wouldn't be able to blame Bush as being greedy and blah fucking blah. Oops, I've used that bumper sticker already.

quote:


"... the other dickhead, I can't spell his name, and he's not worth looking it up."


Mahmoud Ahmadinejad; there for your benefit, I went and looked up the spelling of this fellas name, He is Iranian and get this, there leader, so I reckon that has something to do with this thread. But hey, there's always that perspective thing.

quote:


"Blah, fucking blah,"


Yeah, idle whining always inspires this comment from me.

quote:


"chances are, you're just as blind to the truth as the folks you trash with your proclomation. [sic]"


If you aren't coming to a better understanding by now, I doubt anymore in depth commentary will get past your defense wall. By the way, I misspelled proclamation, did you want to bring that point to the surface as well?

quote:


"Read the Constitution once would ya. "


I never went to read your profile, so perhaps you aren't American, most that bitch about Bush and have a right too, are American, so I did that evil thing and assumed. Now, if you are American, if you want to bitch about anything and everything and mainly about social conditions and national political and governmental affairs, make sure you are getting it right by understanding the document that insist that you maintain personal and national responsibility for the GOVERNMENT that is supposed to be yours. Stop being the victim. That document tells you what you're supposed to be doing when you're displeased with federal efforts. But perhaps this comment wasn't all that relevant to this thread, I just like getting Americans off their lazy asses.


quote:


They've all got zero meaning in this discussion. But they appear to pass for people like xBullx as the way that adults actually conduct serious adult inquiry.


So now if you want to make personal attacks, I'm very good at those, hell I'm a top ten finalist in the moderation hall of fame. I must say though, that wasn't my objective here.

So you see, it's all just a matter of perspective. Now in the future when you feeling the need to inflate your own personal public perception by attempting to discredit another fellow, do make sure that you are actually smarter than he is. Your end result won't leave you standing with your mouth open, as you are being handed your ass.
Oh, and your attack on my post (and even me personally as it would appear, again, perspective) was actually a bigger deviation from the topic of this thread than what you claimed my bumper sticker comments were.

Should we really continue?

Bull





popeye1250 -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 9:03:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I say the U.S. sit this one out.
Let the European Union deal with Iran.


Er...popeye....it is the US that has the problem with Iran, not the European Union.


Meat, I'm an American and I don't have any "problems" with Iran.
I couldn't care less if they have nuclear weapons.




Real0ne -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 9:09:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I say the U.S. sit this one out.
Let the European Union deal with Iran.


Er...popeye....it is the US that has the problem with Iran, not the European Union.



Its israel that has a problem with Iran because they want to be king of the hill with their nukes and control the whole region with terror not the us.   Oh wait, yeh I guess the us would have a problem with an oil nation capable of defending itself with nukes.




Lordandmaster -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 9:13:48 AM)

You're not going to dismantle Iran's nuclear program with a MOAB.

You people watch too many movies.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Of course they're building nukes, and this wouldn't be a problem if we hadn't already squandered all our manpower and resources on Iraq.


We don't have any missiles or bombs, not even a MOAB or two to spare?

Where do you get your information?




cyberdude611 -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 9:39:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I say the U.S. sit this one out.
Let the European Union deal with Iran.


Er...popeye....it is the US that has the problem with Iran, not the European Union.



Its israel that has a problem with Iran because they want to be king of the hill with their nukes and control the whole region with terror not the us.   Oh wait, yeh I guess the us would have a problem with an oil nation capable of defending itself with nukes.



You want to allow a fundamentalist government like Iran to have nuclear weapons? Are you out of your mind? Do you have any idea the type of arms race that is going to spark?




cyberdude611 -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 9:43:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I say the U.S. sit this one out.
Let the European Union deal with Iran.


Er...popeye....it is the US that has the problem with Iran, not the European Union.


Sarkozy would disagree with you there...




kdsub -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 9:43:27 AM)

Maybe I’m reading your post wrong Lordandmaster. If the United States decided to take out all nuclear facilities in Iran and was serious about it…. and did not give a damn about civilian casualties…they could do it and no country on this earth could stop us.

I believe China and Russia would just stand by and flap lips. They have their own problems with religious fanatics and secretly would be glad we did it. N. Korea would be shitting in their pants hoping they would not be next.

I also believe at this time we don’t have the political will for that action but push us enough… maybe another mass killing of Americans by terrorists and that would change in a hurry.
Butch




Sanity -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 9:45:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

You're not going to dismantle Iran's nuclear program with a MOAB.

You people watch too many movies.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Of course they're building nukes, and this wouldn't be a problem if we hadn't already squandered all our manpower and resources on Iraq.


We don't have any missiles or bombs, not even a MOAB or two to spare?

Where do you get your information?



Sure, change the subject...

But you're wrong on that account, too.




Real0ne -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 10:12:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611
You want to allow a fundamentalist government like Iran to have nuclear weapons? Are you out of your mind? Do you have any idea the type of arms race that is going to spark?



You mean like the one the zionists started with US support?  What miss the golden opportunity for them to blow each other all to hell?  It would certainly save us 10 BILLION bucks per year that we are sending israel.

I would feel more comfortable than the arsenal that US psychopaths have at their disposal.







cyberdude611 -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 10:20:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611
You want to allow a fundamentalist government like Iran to have nuclear weapons? Are you out of your mind? Do you have any idea the type of arms race that is going to spark?



You mean like the one the zionists started with US support?  What miss the golden opportunity for them to blow each other all to hell?  It would certainly save us 10 BILLION bucks per year that we are sending israel.

I would feel more comfortable than the arsenal that US psychopaths have at their disposal.




Yeah and there goes 2/3rds of the world's oil. It'll send the world into global depression.

People need to remember that today is much different than just a few decades ago. Most of the economies around the world are linked and respond strongly to global issues.




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