RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike

RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (Full Version)

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Lordandmaster -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 10:37:50 AM)
And exactly how? Anything worth hitting is underground. The only way to accomplish what you're talking about is with a full-scale land invasion, and those haven't been going too well for us lately. Tell me, which divisions are you going to send to Iran? Sure, you can drop a few bombs and light up the sky and maybe even hold a press conference for CNN declaring that you've won the war, and the truth is that you won't have done jackshit--except maybe convince more teenage boys to become martyrs. quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Maybe I’m reading your post wrong Lordandmaster. If the United States decided to take out all nuclear facilities in Iran and was serious about it…. and did not give a damn about civilian casualties…they could do it and no country on this earth could stop us.

kdsub -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 10:55:21 AM)
Here is how… the US already has low yield nuclear tipped penetration bombs… developed for underground bunkers after the problems during the Iraqi wars… even if the facility was not completely destroyed the area would be uninhabitable. There was a debate whether congress should be consulted before such weapons were used. Like I said we would need to be serious… even without penetration bombs a few H-bombs on the same area would be enough to take out any underground facility. That type of construction is massive and cannot be hidden so we would know exactly where to hit. I hope it never happens but it is well within out capabilities.

farglebargle -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 11:04:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 I say the U.S. sit this one out. Let the European Union deal with Iran. Er...popeye....it is the US that has the problem with Iran, not the European Union. Its israel that has a problem with Iran because they want to be king of the hill with their nukes and control the whole region with terror not the us. Oh wait, yeh I guess the us would have a problem with an oil nation capable of defending itself with nukes. You want to allow a fundamentalist government like Iran to have nuclear weapons? Are you out of your mind? Do you have any idea the type of arms race that is going to spark? Actually, Israel started the Nuclear Arms Race in the mideast. Aren't THEY the only ones holding now, and everyone is RACING to catch up? Of course, at this point, all any Iranian Scientist would be guilty of is "Thoughtcrime", so the discussion is moot.

kdsub -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 11:39:07 AM)
farglebargle...unless I am mistaken no one has any proof that Israel has nuclear weapons. So haw can you say with certainty that they started the arms race? If they do please show me the proof. Butch

farglebargle -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 12:01:52 PM)
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB189/index.htm

kdsub -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 12:41:27 PM)
That is not proof...they choose not to comment one way or another on their possession of such weapons. There is no definitive proof they have them just supposition. Now don’t get me wrong I do believe they have them I just have no proof nor does anyone else. Butch

Real0ne -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 12:57:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub That is not proof...they choose not to comment one way or another on their possession of such weapons. There is no definitive proof they have them just supposition. Now don’t get me wrong I do believe they have them I just have no proof nor does anyone else. Butch Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) IAEA chief says Israel has nuclear capability PLA Daily 2004-02-27 VIENNA, Feb. 26 (Xinhuanet) -- Mohamed ElBaradei, chief of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), said on Wednesday that Israel has nuclear capability, but the extent is a mystery. "I know that it's a developed program, and Israel does not deny that it has nuclear capability, but the size of the program, the extent of its development, really I can't know ElBaradei said in an interview broadcast on Wednesday. http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/israel/israel-040227-pla-daily01.htm 2. In a documentary, Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres goes further than any other Israeli official in confirming that Israel has nuclear capability and discloses for the first time details about Israel's acquisition of nuclear weapons. 2. France Cooperated with Israel in Launching Israel's Nuclear Program At a time of rising tensions in the Middle East, Israel's broadcasting media aired a television documentary in November in which Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres discloses for the first time details about Israel's acquisition of nuclear weapons. In the documentary, Peres goes further than any other Israeli official in confirming that the country has nuclear capability. Along with French officials, Peres gives details about cooperation between Israel and France in launching Israel's nuclear program. The showing of the film may be a sign that the Israeli government is beginning to relax its rule of absolute silence on its nuclear program. Mordechai Vanunu is still serving an 18-year sentence in jail for revealing in 1986 that Israel had a nuclear program and more than 100 warheads. http://www.wagingpeace.org/articles/2002/01/00_top-five-secrets.htm seems to be pretty common knowledge in certain circles :)

Lordandmaster -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 2:28:51 PM)
Right, and kdsub from Collarme knows exactly where to hit. I mean, we've NEVER bombed the wrong installation before... I wonder, why haven't they snatched you up to serve on the Joint Chiefs of Staff? quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub That type of construction is massive and cannot be hidden so we would know exactly where to hit.

kdsub -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 3:24:45 PM)
Hell if we could blowup all of Russia I think I could hit Iran... all of Iran. It's not going to happen ... I hope... Butch

Politesub53 -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 6:43:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub That is not proof...they choose not to comment one way or another on their possession of such weapons. There is no definitive proof they have them just supposition. Now don’t get me wrong I do believe they have them I just have no proof nor does anyone else. Butch Everyone knows they have the bomb, why would they kidnap Vanunu from Italy, using a honeytrap if i recall rightly, and then keep him locked up for almost 20 years. The link is Peres admitting Israel has the bomb http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/12/23/wnuke23.xml

farglebargle -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 8:19:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub That is not proof... It's way more proof than anyone's got against Iran ( or Iraq for that matter. ) So if the Iraq Intel was "Good Enough", why isn't the Israel Intel? And then there is Mordechai Vanunu -- an Israeli former nuclear technician who revealed details of Israel's nuclear weapons programme to the British press in 1986. He was subsequently abducted in Rome by Israeli Mossad agents and smuggled to Israel, where he was tried in secret and convicted of treason.

kdsub -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 8:42:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub That is not proof... It's way more proof than anyone's got against Iran ( or Iraq for that matter. ) So if the Iraq Intel was "Good Enough", why isn't the Israel Intel? And then there is Mordechai Vanunu -- an Israeli former nuclear technician who revealed details of Israel's nuclear weapons programme to the British press in 1986. He was subsequently abducted in Rome by Israeli Mossad agents and smuggled to Israel, where he was tried in secret and convicted of treason. I didn’t say it was or wasn’t… you just said Israel started the nuclear arms race and everyone is trying to catch up. I just say there is no absolute proof of either having nuclear weapons. If the Arab world knows that Israel has the bomb it sure has not been a deterrent to war. I believe Iran’s goal is not a deterrent to Israel but to the United States. They know they have nothing to fear from Israel but they do from us. They can never compete militarily with us so their only hope to dominate the region is to be a nuclear power. Butch

Real0ne -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 9:07:05 PM)
having nukes isnt a detewrant to war just nuclear war. Thats why we have the e4 doomsady plane

kdsub -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 9:23:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne having nukes isnt a detewrant to war just nuclear war. Thats why we have the e4 doomsady plane I'm undecided on that point...If I was a small country surrounded by enemies…and I was just days away from being annihilated and most likely exterminated…I would use any weapon I had… nuclear bombs included. That is Israel’s predicament and I believe they would do just that. I believe all thinking governments understand this and that would be a deterrent to total war. If Iran had a bomb and we knew it we would not invade their country because we know they would use it…either against our army or against Israel. So it would be a deterrent to any aggression. Butch

farglebargle -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 9:25:05 PM)
quote: If the Arab world knows that Israel has the bomb it sure has not been a deterrent to war. It's been, what? 40 years since Israel's neighbors tried to invade?

kdsub -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 9:30:16 PM)
Not all but some of those governments have been organizing and supporting private armies and there has been a continual state of war for these very 40 years. They are determined not to win a negotiating position but to annihilate Israel.

farglebargle -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 9:45:41 PM)
"hey are determined not to win a negotiating position but to annihilate Israel." Do you mean: a) "Israel, the Ideal" b) "Israel, The State" or (c) "The Government of The State of Israel". Because, I would agree, that (C) THE GOVERNMENT OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL MUST BE REMOVED AND REPLACED or nothing's going to meaningfully change. Hey, I feel the same way about the Presidential Dictatorship in place since Lincoln in the US...

kdsub -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/2/2007 10:25:41 PM)
We agree on that...Israel’s position will never lead to peace. But I’m afraid the Palestinian government and its supporters in the Arab world need to be replaced as well before there can be true and meaningful peace in the region. I do believe the people on both sides are ready for peace if they can get past their pride and hate. Butch

Real0ne -> RE: Zogby: 52% of Americans support Iran strike (11/3/2007 3:43:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Because, I would agree, that (C) THE GOVERNMENT OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL MUST BE REMOVED AND REPLACED or nothing's going to meaningfully change. Hey, I feel the same way about the Presidential Dictatorship in place since Lincoln in the US... They are the spittin image of us imo, just not as covert about it as we are here.

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