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Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/1/2007 7:50:16 PM

petdave

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So, it seems like common sense that a "good submissive" does not pester their Dominant to fulfill their fetishes.

A "good submissive" acts in ways that please his or her Dominant..

So if your Dominant is in fact Vanilla, and is pleased when you act as an equal partner, make decisions for them, take the initiative in physical romance, etc.... and you set aside everything that you long for to do this... Does that make you an uber-sub?

If not, what does it make you, and when do you cross the line between "good submissive" and Other?

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RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/1/2007 9:23:10 PM

twistedwillow

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Interesting question petdave.
I think that being Dominant comes with wanting to be in charge of things, rather than equals.
If a Dominant wanted equality they wouldn't be Dom.. IMO
However with things like initiating sex etc, I don't see any problem with a sub doing that. If the Dom dosn't want it they say 'don't do that now' or 'don't do that EVER' easy fixed.

Just my surface observations

twisted

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RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/1/2007 11:41:11 PM

stella41b

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The best way of being a good submissive is simply by being yourself.

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RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/2/2007 12:10:43 AM

MasterFireMaam

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If this situation is healthy for you, it makes you a good submissive in my eyes. However, I'm wondering if the situation is good for you...no one should be asked to set aside their needs in order to make a relationship work. It's not healthy.

Master Fire

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RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/2/2007 6:07:01 AM

petdave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

The best way of being a good submissive is simply by being yourself.

That sounds good, but i don't know that i necessarily believe it. i guess it works better for some people than others.

If (if!) myself is pretty much just a big pain in the ass... being a pain in the ass isn't really being a good sub. At least i can't find a way to interpret it as such.

i think it's unrealistic to expect two people to match perfectly on every level. And, in a D/s relationship, i think it is incumbent upon the submissive to change as needed. But if all the changes lead away from what the sub considers submission to be, sooner or later, it seems like it stops being submission, and becomes something else... i just don't know what, or when

This made more sense after a few drinks. Perhaps i'll have more insight tonight.

(in reply to stella41b)

Post #: 5

RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/2/2007 6:47:40 AM

batshalom

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If I give up everything I am and everything I want, it doesn't make me a good submissive - it makes me a sad person ... and probably eventually an angry person. It also makes the "partner" a completely selfish person for not trying to feed me back in some way. Of course, some dynamics thrive on such one-sided energy, but it's not something I have had any success with.

(in reply to petdave)

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RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/2/2007 7:20:10 AM

laurell3

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If your Dominant is vanilla....they aren't a Dominant, so I'm confused. Are you asking if you should give up your kink for a vanilla relationship?

(in reply to batshalom)

Post #: 7

RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/2/2007 8:52:52 AM

treehugger42

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good philosophical question, but it rests on the assumption that submissives submit purely out of selfless devotion to their dominants, when the fact of the matter is that submissives, just like everyone else, want their kinks fulfilled. I could fall for the domliest dom in the world, but if he told me that his desire was for me to, I don't know, memorize every episode of The Simpsons, with no other service/kink involved, I'd be out of there with the hounds of hell on my heels. Similarly, a dom who wants me to be an equal partner, take control during sex, etc., is no good to me 'cause that just ain't my kink.

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 8

RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/2/2007 10:04:11 AM

toservez

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Human brain is not a logic computer. Do I want my Master to be happy and do what he wants, absolutely. If he wants an equal vanilla relationship and orders it on me, no my needs will not get met.

I always think of a power exchange relationship to having two distinct aspects that more often then not intertwine but are still somewhat separate. The first is my submissive personality in wanting to make my significant other happy and burden free, to put his needs and desires ahead of mine. I do this with most friends and family in appropriate levels no matter what. The other part of me though is about wanting to be lead, controlled and just fucking dominated.

In your example the command of to please me we will be a vanilla couple completely lacks the domination part of the equation. In terms of going from the super supportive other to I need, want and crave to do whatever you want when you want level it takes the control, leadership and domination aspect to get me on that level.

< Message edited by toservez -- 11/2/2007 10:05:16 AM >

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RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/2/2007 10:35:37 AM

Dnomyar

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laurell. What does vanilla have to do with someone being Dominat. I would post this question on the board but the moderator is upset with me.

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Post #: 10

RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/2/2007 1:23:35 PM

slavemaia

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Joined: 8/26/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

So, it seems like common sense that a "good submissive" does not pester their Dominant to fulfill their fetishes.

A "good submissive" acts in ways that please his or her Dominant..

So if your Dominant is in fact Vanilla, and is pleased when you act as an equal partner, make decisions for them, take the initiative in physical romance, etc.... and you set aside everything that you long for to do this... Does that make you an uber-sub?

If not, what does it make you, and when do you cross the line between "good submissive" and Other?

Participating in any arrangement that is not fulfilling and rewarding for me makes me a DOORMAT, not a sub or a slave. IF doing everything your Dominant's way is fulfilling to you, then it's a mutual exchange. If not, then you is with the wrong one honey.

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(in reply to petdave)

Post #: 11

RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/2/2007 1:49:10 PM

MystressDream

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From: Colorado
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Personally, I think this post is too vague to really answer. In any 24/7 M/s or D/s relationship, there are vanilla times and vanilla aspects that have to be dealt with. For example.... If my slave is a highly sucessfull financial manager, why would I be so stupid as to make all of the financial decisions without his input? It makes no sense to me. If he has those abilities and that knowledge, then I would wish to use then. I believe that his success in his field is a strong asset to our household, however, everything he does to that end is for me.... for us. If I own him, then I also own his expertise. Would I have him make all the decisions on his own? No. Would I have the final say? Yes. Would I follow his advice and guidance on those types of decision? You bet I would.

As far as sex.... If I want my slave to express his desire for me as a woman, and initiate sex, or even (hang onto your hats) engage in sex more on a vanilla level, then that is the way it will be. It is my decision to make, and his to fulfill. If he isn't capable of showing his desire for me without my commanding it, then I am not interested. Having a man kiss me only if I command him too takes all the magic out of it. I can't help but begin to feel that he is doing it more as a duty rather than an expression of his love and desire for me as a woman.

All of this, of course, only applies to a 24/7 life partner type M/s relationship. Not any kind of poly situation.

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RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/2/2007 2:23:50 PM

goodgirl08

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Joined: 6/11/2007
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Isn't that just agreeing to be in a vanilla relationship? Your one ongoing act of submission is to act as if you're not submissive, but an equal partner? How meta. That just sounds confusing and probably unsatisfying. If you wanted a D/s relationship, why would you agree to change the dynamic so drastically?

(in reply to MystressDream)

Post #: 13

RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/3/2007 9:02:06 AM

lateralist1

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Joined: 11/22/2006
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What a fantastic thread and some great replies.
In any relationship both partners need to have their basic needs met.
But I don't believe that two people are ever completely right for one another.
So there has to be some compromise.
I am extremely dominant in most areas of life. However I can compromise when it is necessary.
I expect my submissive to do most of the compromising where he/she can.
However some people have more natural ability than others and in different areas.
Just like in vanilla life I may want a D/s relationship with someone who doesn't want same with me. That's life.
I will find the best match I can and then I will commit totally and work at the relationship.
I expect the sub I chose and who choses me to do the same.
If either of us have to work too hard then we have made a mistake.
However trying to be what you think someone wants before you are committed is stupid. I have turned down subs who do. Why? Because if they are not confident of their own worth why should I see them as worthy?
Worth doesn't necessarily mean vanilla power though.
I think too many vanilla values are creeping into the 'lifestyle'.
Good looks, money, status. etc are not things that I value.
Like yes ok I'm human. But value no.
This is my sexuality so obviously I need to be attracted to a partner.
But the D/s relationship and the kink will provide everything else necessary to have my needs met.
I like responsibility and most of the time I like making decisions and I really like dominating someone for my good and theirs. It doesn't have to be a partner either.
And I love kink lol.
But I certainly don't want to indulge my kink with someone I am not in a committed D/s sexual relationship with. I've done all the playing at this I am going to do.
For want of a better word it's yucky.
And I certainly don't want a sexual partner who isn't interested in sex with me lol.
But neither do I want a sub who is only interested in me as a sexual/kink object.
Because I certainly will not see him in that light.
Attraction isn't just sexual. It's everything about the person.
Picking up a one night play partner is simple. And to turn that into sex isn't exactly difficult. But who needs it.
Hey sorry about the rant.
I hope I answered the question as well though.

(in reply to goodgirl08)

Post #: 14

RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/3/2007 9:16:33 AM

gracieamelia

Posts: 26
Joined: 10/21/2007
Status: offline

Being dominant is as "vanilla" as it is "lifestyle!"
Like Dream said, a CEO who commands and controls financial decisions, a companies direction CONTROLS. He goes home and is submissive to a partner who he finds ands as equally dominant, to whom he submits, but is in controlof the direction of finances or another part of the relationship.

Why do we "think" dominants only are lifestyle? Why do we "think" submissives are only lifestyle?

The narrow focus of "roles" makes a prison of ones mind.

Maybe I am too vanilla, as some hardcore BDSMers define D/s or M/s, but a partnership of D/s and/or M/s is just that. A partnership. A seesaw of desires, values, wants, needs, getting on with day to day....not hiding away in some fantasy world where reality is boxed in categorically "accurate" definitions.

(in reply to lateralist1)

Post #: 15

RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/3/2007 9:22:37 AM

gracieamelia

Posts: 26
Joined: 10/21/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

If your Dominant is vanilla....they aren't a Dominant, so I'm confused. Are you asking if you should give up your kink for a vanilla relationship?

This makes NO SENSE to me laurell, esp after reading your profile. If I hadnt read your number of posts and then looked at your profile, I'd think this question came from an individual who was niave.
I dont mean to step on toes...just a knee jerk response to the post.

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 16

RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/3/2007 9:41:34 AM

catize

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This question reminds me of philosophical discussions in my MYF group (back in my good girl born again christian days)
“If God is omnipotent, could he create a rock so big that he couldn’t lift it?”

To answer your question, in the scenario you present, yes I would be a bad submissive (and I can live with that.)

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Post #: 17

RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/3/2007 10:02:49 AM

treehugger42

Posts: 29
Joined: 9/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

This question reminds me of philosophical discussions in my MYF group (back in my good girl born again christian days)
“If God is omnipotent, could he create a rock so big that he couldn’t lift it?”

To answer your question, in the scenario you present, yes I would be a bad submissive (and I can live with that.)

Mnnneah! My MASTER can create a rock so big he can't lift it! So there! Then he can make me lift it!

Ahem. We now return you to your regularly scheduled philosophical discussion.

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 18

RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/3/2007 11:14:15 AM

laurell3

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Joined: 5/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gracieamelia

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

If your Dominant is vanilla....they aren't a Dominant, so I'm confused. Are you asking if you should give up your kink for a vanilla relationship?

This makes NO SENSE to me laurell, esp after reading your profile. If I hadnt read your number of posts and then looked at your profile, I'd think this question came from an individual who was niave.
I dont mean to step on toes...just a knee jerk response to the post.

yeah well I probably didn't phrase it right, I just didn't understand the OP's question and still don't. I'm not at all attempting to label, just asking is the question should you give up kink or something else? My apologies if it seemed I was asking anything else or labelling.

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RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/3/2007 2:08:53 PM

WillowRain

Posts: 191
Joined: 6/18/2006
Status: offline

It makes you misserable.
Been there, married there, have the shirt.

quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

So, it seems like common sense that a "good submissive" does not pester their Dominant to fulfill their fetishes.

A "good submissive" acts in ways that please his or her Dominant..

So if your Dominant is in fact Vanilla, and is pleased when you act as an equal partner, make decisions for them, take the initiative in physical romance, etc.... and you set aside everything that you long for to do this... Does that make you an uber-sub?

If not, what does it make you, and when do you cross the line between "good submissive" and Other?

(in reply to petdave)

Post #: 20

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