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Rape Request and Legal Consent - 11/3/2007 2:38:55 PM

TrainHerTender

Posts: 11
Joined: 9/20/2006
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I'm involved with a sub who has repeatedly shared with me her desire to be raped. There is no hidden agenda or motivation -- but rather a reflection of both her desire for surrender and the deepening of our relationship. But this is taking me into waters where I have never gone. And I'm very concerned about issues of legal consent and liability. However, finding a legally sound consent form has been a challenge.

I understand that consent is not a defense against most violent acts. But we are not talking about anything other than pure sexual dominance -- which is what she deeply wants. So I would like to know if there are any reliable sources for consent forms out there.

I realize that this could be a true disaster in the making if we don't carefully lay the foundation. This is a very serious issue and I would be grateful for any competent advice or guidance.

Post #: 1

RE: Rape Request and Legal Consent - 11/3/2007 2:49:09 PM

Vanatru

Posts: 300
Joined: 4/16/2004
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consent forms won't protect you in a court. Best thing is know your partner very very very very very very very very very well! and then try out milder stuff, and see how it goes. You could also test her out on other types of RP, how well she can act sorta thing. Always a consideration is if you are overheard by neighbors etc. The police may not see a woman crying for help as just sex play and might inconvenience you with a trip downtown.

I had a girl that loved to play rape and struggled, but she never struggled very long. heh But I didn't try that with her until I'd already known her a few months either.

(in reply to TrainHerTender)

Post #: 2

RE: Rape Request and Legal Consent - 11/3/2007 2:57:19 PM

miladyh

Posts: 64
Joined: 12/23/2005
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It depends on how realistic she wants it to be. My ex and I had one planned out that was to be very realistic to point I would not be aware it was play. Alas he was afraid I would have kicked someone's ass.

Anyway if you are planning it and she just wants a role play rape scene and if it involves her kidnapping then have the person who is kidnapping whisper a code work into her ear and at that time she is allowed to say yea continue or nay stop. Otherwise if it is just the two of you playing out the scene use the safe word.

have fun with it
h

(in reply to TrainHerTender)

Post #: 3

RE: Rape Request and Legal Consent - 11/3/2007 3:25:44 PM

kitttty

Posts: 494
Joined: 10/10/2007
Status: offline

Have her write her fantasy down and sign it. Videotape her signing it.

honestly though, I wouldn't worry about this coming back to you. She really does want it.

(in reply to miladyh)

Post #: 4

RE: Rape Request and Legal Consent - 11/3/2007 3:37:50 PM

MstrSkyWoIf

Posts: 238
Joined: 10/26/2005
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I myself would video tape her talking to you about her desire to play this out. I would also have her write it out and at the end have a place to have it notarized. It may not be legally binding but it would be enough to show her intent to a jury if it ever did go wrong. make her write out her fantasy then read it on video. have her sign it date it and then take the signed dated paper to a notary and have her sign and date it with the notary as a witness.

Just my two cents

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(in reply to kitttty)

Post #: 5

RE: Rape Request and Legal Consent - 11/3/2007 3:43:57 PM

Vanatru

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Joined: 4/16/2004
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videotaping would not necessarily help either. courts like hard evidence over soft stuff like consent forms etc.

(in reply to MstrSkyWoIf)

Post #: 6

RE: Rape Request and Legal Consent - 11/3/2007 3:53:24 PM

Vanatru

Posts: 300
Joined: 4/16/2004
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the reason consent forms (and even video taping) don't work is that the person could have a change of heart, so that even if you followed the "script" exactly, she could still cry foul, that she changed her mind and you did it anyways. Most of what we do falls in a legal gray area (and some of it is actually considered illegal, just not widely pushed), so never expect something said, written videoed ahead of time to actually help you if the cops swing by.

Consent is a really really tricky legal term that is way too subjective to be funny.

(in reply to Vanatru)

Post #: 7

RE: Rape Request and Legal Consent - 11/3/2007 5:38:07 PM

laurell3

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Joined: 5/5/2005
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The problem with video taping is it may actually prove the crime or a different crime against you, depending on what it is you are talking about, which isn't very clear. What is it exactly she is suggesting that you do? An element of rape or sexual assault in most places is a lack of consent. If you're talking about rape play, that is acting as though there is not consent where in fact there is, your question becomes nonsensical in a legal sense. However, while it may not be a felony sexual assault, it may still be battery, assault or whatever other misdemeanor crime your state has for bdsm type activities with injury or threat of injury.

The bottom line is no amount of consent forms may make wiitwd legal, however, before you write or videotape anything that might be used against you, talking to someone in your state that knows your state law would be more beneficial than asking in this general forum. Check the kink-friendly professional websites for any attorneys in your state.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 11/3/2007 5:39:40 PM >

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(in reply to Vanatru)

Post #: 8

RE: Rape Request and Legal Consent - 11/3/2007 6:36:21 PM

Sabella

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Joined: 7/26/2005
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To me, if the concern about legalities & consequences is a thought in your mind then you aren't ready for that kind of scene together. You don't trust her. Don't do it until you do.

If/When the time comes the most important thing on your mind should be the aftercare & what may come up from her emotionally while it's going on. That alone should give you a few sleepless nights :D

_____________________________

“The giant Grof was hit in one eye by a stone,
and that eye turned inward so that it looked into his mind and he died of what he saw there.”
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(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 9

RE: Rape Request and Legal Consent - 11/3/2007 7:09:38 PM

daddyncherry

Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabella

To me, if the concern about legalities & consequences is a thought in your mind then you aren't ready for that kind of scene together. You don't trust her. Don't do it until you do.

If/When the time comes the most important thing on your mind should be the aftercare & what may come up from her emotionally while it's going on. That alone should give you a few sleepless nights :D

i agree with Sabella here.

my Daddy and i engage in play rape/near rape type stuff pretty regularly...and there are times when i defintiely say no and squirm away (but knowing full well that he will take what is his to take anyway)...i'm not acting by aany stretch of the imagination....it's more like part of me, the subconcious or something (not quite sure what) is trying to say "No no no" Because it may hurt or something (meaning anal).

i say no, loud and clear, and that part of me that is saying no means it...but then deeper there is the part of me, the slave,, that knows that i will be pushed and that i MUST surrender....and i am thrilled to surrender.

If i were a different person there could be problems, but my Daddy trusts me not to be.

_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to Sabella)

Post #: 10

RE: Rape Request and Legal Consent - 11/4/2007 6:05:29 AM

patwi

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Joined: 6/24/2007
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Just hire someone neither of you know to *actually* rape her. That way, she gets what she wants, and you're not doing the actual raping so there's no need to worry about pesky consent forms and videotapes.

Sorry for the pre-coffee sarcasm. The idea of consensual rape seems a paradox to me.

(in reply to daddyncherry)

Post #: 11

RE: Rape Request and Legal Consent - 11/4/2007 6:29:20 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrSkyWoIf

I myself would video tape her talking to you about her desire to play this out. I would also have her write it out and at the end have a place to have it notarized. It may not be legally binding but it would be enough to show her intent to a jury if it ever did go wrong. make her write out her fantasy then read it on video. have her sign it date it and then take the signed dated paper to a notary and have her sign and date it with the notary as a witness.

Just my two cents

To the OP

Personally... all this talk of video taping and consent forms is very much an indication that you are not ready... she might... but you are not. Yes... you are in effect taking a huge legal risk... IF and only IF she calls foul. She is taking a risk as well but the consequences are much more illusive to identify compared to yourself. In the end.. you both have to trust each other to make this scene a reality. Instead of wasting time for consent forms and the like... why don't you spend time communicating with her on exactly what the scene to her is. Let her express to you until you can express it back to her to the point that you both feel the scene is understood. Then don't just jump into the scene. Take baby steps along the way. Test a particular aspect of the scene ... IE... she wants it rough... well then have rough sex with her... and make it ROUGH! If she is comfortable with it... then talk about how this will be part of a Rape scene... how would it affect her... yeah more talk. Being Tied up might also might be a part of a Rape Scene... so do bondage on her... but don't tell her that it will happen ..... in the course of one of your planned or expect sexual encounters.. introduce bondage to the scene.... Then on another occassion.. introduce Rough and Bondage together. Build it up slowly.. until you both feel your ready for the scene... it plays on the edges for most folks... but if done right... it can and will be HOT

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MstrSkyWoIf)

Post #: 12

RE: Rape Request and Legal Consent - 11/4/2007 6:29:57 AM

topcat

Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline

Dear THT-

Actually, abouyt have the people on the boards have commited 'rape' in the legal/ indictable sense in the state of NY. In NYS (I am unsure as to other jurisdictions) 'consent' cannot be give by a person who is restraind or 'constrained in any manner'. That is, if your girls says tie me to the bed and fuck me, the minute she is bound, consent is invailid, and sex at that point becomes rape.

The real issue as seen by Cherry and Sabella, is your level of trust. A lot gets thrown around about the submissives level of trust, it's rarer to here that it pretty key to dominance as well. If you don't trust her, walk.

I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. I did do a really hot cross examine roleplay once though....

Stay warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to patwi)

Post #: 13

RE: Rape Request and Legal Consent - 11/4/2007 6:32:18 AM

RRafe

Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline

No legal forms will save you.

This is one place you will have to trust enough to submit to HER will.

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(in reply to topcat)

Post #: 14

RE: Rape Request and Legal Consent - 11/4/2007 6:36:23 AM

LATEXBABY64

Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline

often times things that are acted out in the bedroom sometimes can be used in a court of law. If she got hurt or injured or mad cause she was not pleased how things went. Even A spanking. Consent can always be twisted to a he said she said thing. My Advice to you if your always questioning the legal end of this. Then you have a trust Issue with this person. Your subconscious is saying. She is hot fun but it might be a time to run Lol.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 15

RE: Rape Request and Legal Consent - 11/4/2007 6:39:18 AM

scifi1133

Posts: 8529
Joined: 3/27/2007
From: virginia
Status: offline

im not going to get into the whole ready not ready issue none of my business.
the biggest reason there is not a consent form or a video tape that will help you by law is that at any time any person can change their mind and at that point if you were to persist it is now rape. there are plenty of these cases in court all the time.

_____________________________

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awwwwwww yeeeeeeeeah
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(in reply to RRafe)

Post #: 16

RE: Rape Request and Legal Consent - 11/4/2007 7:50:31 AM

VieVivante

Posts: 29
Joined: 9/22/2007
Status: offline

Following with the advice you have been given thus far, the most important thing missing from your statement is how long you have been involved with this sub. How open and honest is the relationship. Many Doms and Masters never really think about it; the reality is that they can be charged with rape, assault, etc. at any time if they can't tell the difference between when the sub is acting resistance, and when she is really resisting because she is unwilling.

The only cure for the problem is to know someone very well, as has already been mentioned. That takes time, and there are no shortcuts. It simply takes time to build up the trust that is needed, to get to know someone really deep down.

(in reply to TrainHerTender)

Post #: 17

RE: Rape Request and Legal Consent - 11/4/2007 7:56:08 AM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

Dear THT-

Actually, abouyt have the people on the boards have commited 'rape' in the legal/ indictable sense in the state of NY. In NYS (I am unsure as to other jurisdictions) 'consent' cannot be give by a person who is restraind or 'constrained in any manner'. That is, if your girls says tie me to the bed and fuck me, the minute she is bound, consent is invailid, and sex at that point becomes rape.

The real issue as seen by Cherry and Sabella, is your level of trust. A lot gets thrown around about the submissives level of trust, it's rarer to here that it pretty key to dominance as well. If you don't trust her, walk.

I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. I did do a really hot cross examine roleplay once though....

Stay warm,
Lawrence

It appears to say physically helpless as in unable to communicate lack of consent.

http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menugetf.cgi?COMMONQUERY=LAWS

Obviously any prosecutor, judge, or jury, can stretch that to fit just about anything.

(in reply to topcat)

Post #: 18

RE: Rape Request and Legal Consent - 11/4/2007 8:00:19 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

Just hire someone neither of you know to *actually* rape her. That way, she gets what she wants, and you're not doing the actual raping so there's no need to worry about pesky consent forms and videotapes.

Are you sure about that? Sometimes there are pesky things like accomplice, collusion, conspiracy, I'm not sure arranging a rape (play rape) is legal.

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(in reply to patwi)

Post #: 19

RE: Rape Request and Legal Consent - 11/4/2007 8:11:23 AM

patwi

Posts: 296
Joined: 6/24/2007
Status: offline

My reply was (mostly) one of sarcasm. I've had my coffee for the morning but Im still stuck on the paradox of consensual rape. Really...if the girl wants to be raped the closest she'll get apart from the actual deed is if that fellow asks a buddy of his to do the deed without her knowledge.

But then there's the question of afterwards, isn't there? She may have wanted it before, but I bet she'd change her mind halfway through a real rape.

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 20

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