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how do You feel - 11/6/2007 10:26:33 AM   
southernhart


Posts: 120
Joined: 9/27/2007
Status: offline 		when You must punish Your sub severley for something they have done? Taking into consideration that they are not into pain and do not enjoy being punished. What are Your thoughts and feelings before during and after?
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RE: how do You feel - 11/6/2007 10:38:55 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: southernhart

when You must punish Your sub severley for something they have done?
 
I don't like having to punish, it annoys me.  I'm disappointed with the submissive and I don't like that.  In some cases it makes me feel like I failed in cases where I was working to train a submissive in some particular fashion and apparently I was effective enough.  I don't like to punish... but I will if and when necessary.

quote:

Taking into consideration that they are not into pain and do not enjoy being punished.

Who said it will necessarily be painful?  Who said it will even necessarily be physical.  It could be, but there are many more options out there and which one I will employ will depend more on what I think will be most effective at aiding in correcting the behavior in that particular circumstance.  Too many equate punishment with spanking or similar forms of corporeal punishment, which is rather limiting.

quote:

What are Your thoughts and feelings before during and after?

Before:  Making sure I'm calm, (most especially not angry), considering what happened and how to address it, what methods of correction will likely work best.
During:  I focus on following through the course of action I've chosen, at that point I'm not particularly emotional.
After:  I tend to review, regrets that it was necessary, consider what I can do to ensure it won't be necessary again in the future, consider the submissive's behavior and level of obedience.  In other words I re-evaluate things, make some choices and move forward.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to southernhart)
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RE: how do You feel - 11/6/2007 11:59:14 AM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		Depends on what she did-and if it broke my "go away" limits.

My experience has shown me that a woman who disrespects me and herself enough to violate a "deal breaker" will usually do it again.

The long and short of it-is I'm a hard ass. I'f you can;t color between the lines-I'm not going to hold your hands to force you to.

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I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

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RE: how do You feel - 11/6/2007 2:32:02 PM   
DarkDaddyZ


Posts: 805
Joined: 4/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: southernhart

when You must punish Your sub severley for something they have done? Taking into consideration that they are not into pain and do not enjoy being punished. What are Your thoughts and feelings before during and after?

In my opinion punishment is for correcting behavior.  It's not meant to be enjoyed.
If I'm in a relationship with a masochist I wouldn't adminster physical pain on her as punishment.

_____________________________

"Flirting is part of the job description." DJ Jesus (Lucy Daughter Of The Devil)

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RE: how do You feel - 11/6/2007 2:39:27 PM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		What would you have to "punish severely" for?  If, let's say, she made a mistake, even a rather sizeable one, I don't know that punishment is called for.  Corrective action, sure, but mistakes are mistakes and we all make them.  If it's something she did puposely, I don't know that punishment is going to stop her from doing it again. 

In my opinion, if one agrees to submit, then that's what she does.  When she stops, then it's time for a serious talk and decide if this is what she really wants.

(in reply to southernhart)
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RE: how do You feel - 11/6/2007 2:56:27 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Yup I agree. And secondly if someone is willfully disobeying constantly, or on a very regular basis, really, to me it says something about the person who's continually and willfully disobediant.
quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

If it's something she did puposely, I don't know that punishment is going to stop her from doing it again. 


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RE: how do You feel - 11/6/2007 2:59:29 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

What would you have to "punish severely" for?  If, let's say, she made a mistake, even a rather sizeable one, I don't know that punishment is called for.  Corrective action, sure, but mistakes are mistakes and we all make them.  If it's something she did puposely, I don't know that punishment is going to stop her from doing it again. 

In my opinion, if one agrees to submit, then that's what she does.  When she stops, then it's time for a serious talk and decide if this is what she really wants.


Yes, exactly. If there is still huge reactance after a lot of communication-trying to force the issue will not neccesarily work. I have gracefully ended relationships that were mismatches in the past. These sorts of experiences make you more aware of the need to see beyond yourself.

Just because you want a thing to happen-won't always make it so. Including puffing up and whacking an ass-because the top cannot accept that he or she also has faults that need to be worked on-and moved past.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

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RE: how do You feel - 11/6/2007 4:19:55 PM   
Durus


Posts: 184
Joined: 7/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: southernhart

when You must punish Your sub severley for something they have done? Taking into consideration that they are not into pain and do not enjoy being punished. What are Your thoughts and feelings before during and after?


I feel like I failed for a variety of reasons. Perhaps I failed to makes my wishes known. Perhaps I failed to make the importance of whatever rule known. Perhaps I failed to stop minor misbehavior before it bacame full blown willfull disobediance. Perhaps, and worst of all, I failed to accurately determine the subs suitability.

The only reason that I would punish misbehavior is if I ruled out some of the above factors and I thought the punishee would learn something from the experience.

I never understood what my parents meant when they said "this is going to hurt me more then it hurts you" until having to punish a sub.

< Message edited by Durus -- 11/6/2007 4:20:58 PM >

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RE: how do You feel - 11/6/2007 6:26:39 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		I also take offense to the must punish bit. In every instance where we've had problems, it has come down to misunderstandings. Every single time. Sometimes mine and sometimes his, but with a slow enough pace and a learning curve, and his enormous patience to teach things step by step, repeating things several times until I finally get it, we have never had a problem due to willful disobedience.

There have been times when I thought I understood what he wanted, and didn't, and times when he forgot what my day would be like and ordered something that couldn't be done - the short skirt and no panties for the day I was escorting a school hiking trip comes to mind here-, and times when either or both of us were too upset to think clearly, let alone explain or listen to the other.

But not one instance of me deliberately not caring about him and what he wanted. Should such a day come, I can safely say that punishment would be akin to locking the barn door after the horse escaped. If she doesn't want to do things that please you, then you have major relationship problems.

(in reply to Durus)
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RE: how do You feel - 11/6/2007 8:27:48 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		Call me sick, but I always enjoy enforcing discipline and inflicting pain on my sub. I like to punish and I feel good doing it. There is no "This will hurt me more than it hurts you." I don't clear my concious with the idea of "Well, it has to be done."  I punish every chance I get and love it every time.

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RE: how do You feel - 11/6/2007 8:40:47 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		Fangs, you are one sadistic bastard!


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Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to FangsNfeet)
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RE: how do You feel - 11/6/2007 8:49:26 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		Actually as usual, I agree with what RRafe says.
It sounds like it is time for some serious conversation.
If there are some serious differences involved, ending the relationship
is taking the high road.
 
 

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: how do You feel - 11/6/2007 9:17:50 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		What Padriag said, but he already knows that :)

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RE: how do You feel - 11/7/2007 1:52:58 AM   
SottoVoce


Posts: 13
Joined: 5/26/2007
Status: offline 		**He shrugs**

My disappointment IS the punishment, or she needs to be elsewhere.

I'll put her in a cage or deny her her joys- I may spank her if I think it necessary. There are times I may quite simply leash her to the bed and let her sleep on the cold floor-

Necessary and we do what is necessary.

I agree with much of what Padriag says and will only add the idea that if she continues on, despite corrective measures and patience on my part-

I'd send her away, I don't want to have to fight every moment for her submission, I want a submissive. I understand it may take time to let it bloom, I understand about patience and I have a lot of it- I also know, having lived through it, that there is a time when you have to reassess the relationship with a disobedient sub.

If she has that many problems submitting, and wilful disobedience is ALWAYS a submission failure, then I am the wrong man for her or perhaps, even, she is not as submissve as she thinks.

Thin ice, that decision, and one I won't make, it is not my decision, it is hers- I only decide on compatability.

SV

< Message edited by SottoVoce -- 11/7/2007 2:06:44 AM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: how do You feel - 11/7/2007 2:00:54 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SottoVoce
I agree with much of what Padraig says and will only add the idea that if she continues on, despite corrective measures and patience on my part-

I'd send her away, I don't want to have to fight every moment for her submission, I want a submissive. I understand it may take time to let it bloom, I understand about patience and I have a lot of it- I also know, having lived through it, that there is a time when you have to reassess the relationship with a disobedient sub.

Absolutely agree.  There are those cases where things simply aren't working.  It may be that someone just isn't submitting.  In most cases in my experience its more of a bad fit... different needs, different expectations, etc.  Whatever the cause, if I have to constantly correct and discipline, then we have a problem that could very well result in a dismissal.  How much patience I have with that is directly related to both how hard I think the submissive is trying and also how much time they've had.  I can be very patient with someone who is trying their best, but even then there comes that point when you have to re-evaluate the situation and consider whether its a good match or not... sometimes it just isn't and its better for both to move on.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to SottoVoce)
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RE: how do You feel - 11/7/2007 2:05:21 AM   
SottoVoce


Posts: 13
Joined: 5/26/2007
Status: offline 		Hello Padriag-

I see I have misspelled your name, apologies.

It is good to meet you.

(in reply to Padriag)
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RE: how do You feel - 11/7/2007 11:51:04 AM   
frazzle40


Posts: 56
Joined: 6/11/2006
Status: offline 		If i havent done my best, why am i here.

(in reply to SottoVoce)
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RE: how do You feel - 11/7/2007 3:35:03 PM   
Durus


Posts: 184
Joined: 7/9/2007
Status: offline 		So you want a sub that is constantly disobying you? You can enforce discipline and inflict pain without it being punishment for wrong doing.

(in reply to FangsNfeet)
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RE: how do You feel - 11/7/2007 7:46:33 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SottoVoce

Hello Padriag-

I see I have misspelled your name, apologies.

It is good to meet you.

No biggy, welcome to the forums.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to SottoVoce)
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RE: how do You feel - 11/7/2007 10:18:56 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		I don't punish. I reward good behavior and calmly discuss or completely ignore poor behavior.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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Ms Relationship Books
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(in reply to southernhart)
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