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RE: How do you cope with Frenzy - 11/9/2007 9:32:58 AM

charlotte12

Posts: 471
Joined: 5/9/2006
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I think i've probably experienced frenzy. I don't like to equate it to my being submissive though. I think if i had always fantasized about ....anything so intense and thought i couldn't ever experience it and suddenly found out it might be possible i would have wanted more than anything to experience what ever it was. It also came on top of growing up and learning who i am and ....well. I don't like the condescending tone taken towards submissives as somehow more desperate but i also dont think there should be any condescension towards those that do go through it. I know i was struggling to find my own identity and i thought that maybe that could be "submissive." Silly i know but i'd had these thoughts since childhood. But then again i tend towards a rather intense and obsessive personality.

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(in reply to daddyncherry)

Post #: 21

RE: How do you cope with Frenzy - 11/9/2007 9:45:58 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

don't know how folks that report going through "sub frenzy" deal with it and will also add that regardless of how brilliant Mistress Steel may be, how could she possibly know what "all" or even "most" submissives go through, mentally, emotionally or physically?

the only experience this slave has had with sub frenzy is reading about how other's go through it here on the internet...much like this slave's experience with many things touted as inclusive to all, or experienced by most, who claim a submissive orientation or role within a relationship.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 11/9/2007 9:47:05 AM >

(in reply to shootingstar67)

Post #: 22

RE: How do you cope with Frenzy - 11/9/2007 9:53:40 AM

camille65

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: shootingstar67
She said that all unattached submissives experience frenzy but deal with it different (some play with a dom friend till it passes)

I think saying that ALL submissives (unattached or not) do anything is wrong. ALL submissives are human beings and all human beings don't act the same. All men, women, races, auto mechanics, whathaveyou's do not act the same. Therefore, ALL submissives do not experience "frenzy" or anything else. I was once an unattached submissive and I never recall being in any "frenzy." She may be brilliant but that statement is, in fact, in error. Just a thought.................luci

The author of the article did not state ALL, that was the OP.

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Post #: 23

RE: How do you cope with Frenzy - 11/9/2007 10:21:42 AM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

I am capable of wanting something and not doing it. I want to run off to Rome for a week, however I have responsibilities and am not going to do so.

Beyond that, I made a list of positive and negative traits in potential partner and I didn't meet anyone until I had asked all necessary questions to make sure we had compatibility. And one of the things I needed in him was for him to have awesome amounts of responsibility and self control so that when I was flying high and asking for stuff, he would decide I wasn't up to it.

(in reply to daddyncherry)

Post #: 24

RE: How do you cope with Frenzy - 11/9/2007 11:35:02 AM

Tigrita

Posts: 484
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: California
Status: offline

The article stated "many if not all", which I still find lumps submissives in a box. I find the article condescending. I'm sure people do go through something like that, and if it was presented as a review of some personal experiences I'd appreciate it a little more, but lumping everyone together like that and stereotyping is very off-putting. I've never been through an experience like that, but maybe it is becuase my first dominant and I found eachother before I put a definition on what I was looking for and started a frenzied search for it. I also think a lot of young women, kinky or not, go through similar emotions looking for partners and romance in general. So it isn't just submissives, and it isn't all submissives, and really you should look at people and experiences as individuals and not try to shrink-wrap them in little categories with sets of expectations.

Edited to add: And the comparison to withdrawl and addiction makes no biological sense in this context, which made me take her a lot less seriously from the start. The temporal dynamics of biochemical withdrawl are not at all consistent with what she is describing. Though I don't deny that aspects of the 'highs' of BDSM could be similar to addiction, the described circumstance isn't an illustration of that.

< Message edited by Tigrita -- 11/9/2007 11:38:43 AM >

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There is no right path, only the path you take.

Success is making life happen, versus just letting life happen to you.

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(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 25

RE: How do you cope with Frenzy - 11/9/2007 11:45:08 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

Ach... avoiding the all and the absolutes... it's losing the question.

Some people get frenzy, regardless of orientation(male/female/dom/sub/slave/switch/hetro/bi/gay). The best advice was (when I was single) to throw myself into something else. Exercise, art, shopping, cooking... improving myself in all things so that when the person came along I could submit to, I was able to do so with a good stable background in different subjects and that I myself was healthy.

It doesn't always work though. Sometimes coffee, a bath, chocolate cake and a good film, was just as helpful.

the.dark.

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(in reply to shootingstar67)

Post #: 26

RE: How do you cope with Frenzy - 11/9/2007 6:06:39 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist
I don't know luci. While I agree with your disagreement over the word of 'all'; how often do we see posts here reflecting exactly what she depicted?

Yeah, we often see very ignorant and nonsensical behavior for sure. I just don't agree that it's a widespread "sub" condition. It happens with some but not nearly all as far as I can tell. Certainly not this sub........luci

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Post #: 27

RE: How do you cope with Frenzy - 11/9/2007 6:09:11 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65
The author of the article did not state ALL, that was the OP

Yup, the OP said "all." Refer to post #12 for what the article said. It was "most if not all." My point is that it's definitely NOT all. Maybe all minus one

.............luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

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Post #: 28

RE: How do you cope with Frenzy - 11/9/2007 7:17:56 PM

HopeLost

Posts: 80
Joined: 2/7/2007
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lol! did you ever watch the national geographic shows about bears? thats what this made me feel like.

(in reply to daddyncherry)

Post #: 29

RE: How do you cope with Frenzy - 11/9/2007 7:28:45 PM

Aceton

Posts: 97
Joined: 9/2/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: shootingstar67

I was reading this article by the brillant Mistress Steel on sub frenzies ( I post it here case you are a newbe like me and want to read the article)

http://www.steel-door.com/Frenzies.html

She said that all unattached submissives experience frenzy but deal with it different (some play with a dom friend till it passes)

I am wondering: Assuming you are single and looking, how do you deal with moments of frenzy?

I walk the bunny rabbit.

(in reply to shootingstar67)

Post #: 30

RE: How do you cope with Frenzy - 11/9/2007 7:32:06 PM

sakidorei

Posts: 65
Status: offline

Gee ... maybe if it's analyzed to death all the good that could be gleaned from the article will be washed away in a tide of semantics. ~smiles~

While i can parce apart the differences between slaves and subs and experiential variables ... it really dliutes a real condition that many women i know have experienced. As i read the responses of others ... it occurs to me that perhaps the more control you seek within your M/s or D/s experience, the more likely you are to experience a level of -frenzy- or some similiar lapse or struggle.

If you maintain a high level of control in your submission ... with much negotiation and a high reasoned approach then perhaps it's much easier for you to hold urges or emotions or hungers in check until your criteria have been met. Perhaps too though ... for those who seek more release from control ... it's much harder to manage those urges or hungers without a firm guiding hand.

This is not to say that those who are more slave inclined have no ability to control themselves ... to the contrary in my opinion. But it is to say that perhaps your likelihood of experiencing some form of -frenzy- DOES in fact correlate to how you approach D/s or M/s as a whole.

While i have not gone through periods that i would call -frenzy- in my 10+ years as a slave ... i have certain been through periods of bad judgement that i can now see was directly related to my lack of solid, safe Mastery. When i have been without a Master i have compromised some of the things that most sane or safe in order to have a taste of that submission or opportunity to please. This isn't to say that things were hellish or permanently damaging ... but i do know, looking back that i compromised to get a need or a semblence of a need met in less than stellar conditions.

The inclusive language aside, i felt the article had a great deal of merit about the realities that many slaves i've known have experienced. It's important for those of us who have experienced even a shadow of this reality to understand that we CAN and MIGHT make unwise decisions in a state that is more need driven than self controlled and rational driven. It's a pitfall we need to understand or at least help others understand who have experienced it.

So often we end up seeming condescending or demeaning of those who have had experiences that we haven't ... we can even seem to tout our own self control as a badge of honor which can cause those who most need to understand some of the D/s or M/s phenomina to stay in the shadows. They don't want to be looked down upon for having a less than -acceptable- reality.

i think other posters are correct ... it's good to have friends in the lifestyle who are Dominant even if they aren't MY Dominant who can help me navigate times that are potential slave crisis for me. Too ... my fellow slave sisters have helped a great deal through the years to keep me in check and make sure i'm looking at things with an even and healthy eye.

~saki
Property of Master D

(in reply to slaveluci)

Post #: 31

RE: How do you cope with Frenzy - 11/10/2007 7:48:26 PM

probablyknowme

Posts: 1875
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline

Frenzies...real or imagined? In my experience, which in reality is really the only thing that I can speak of, I made a bunch of stupid mistakes when I was first exploring this lifestyle, all in the hopes of finding a DOM of my very own. Luckily, I did mangage to muddle through them all with little or no psychological or physical damage. This was not a result of my own judgement and actions, but a result of lucky choices in partners.

I have to say that anytime someone tries to communicate a propensity of any group of people toward a certain thing, there seems to be more people rushing to deny said propensity than was ever considered. I wonder if this isn't a case of protesting too much?

kat

_____________________________

The human mind is like a TV set. When it goes blank, it's a good idea to turn off the sound.
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NewcomersOK/

(in reply to sakidorei)

Post #: 32

RE: How do you cope with Frenzy - 11/10/2007 8:13:17 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: probablyknowme

Frenzies...real or imagined? In my experience, which in reality is really the only thing that I can speak of, I made a bunch of stupid mistakes when I was first exploring this lifestyle, all in the hopes of finding a DOM of my very own. Luckily, I did mangage to muddle through them all with little or no psychological or physical damage. This was not a result of my own judgement and actions, but a result of lucky choices in partners.

I have to say that anytime someone tries to communicate a propensity of any group of people toward a certain thing, there seems to be more people rushing to deny said propensity than was ever considered. I wonder if this isn't a case of protesting too much?

kat

I do not know if they are protesting too much or not. If they have not ever experienced this state of being, go them!

What I read in an underlying tone from many on this thread that state that they have never went through this is rather disheartening... it is not like they have outright said it, but by the way they assert they have never went through this seems to be slightly insulting to those of us that have... like what we experienced isn't real, or we are weak, or somehow flawed... and they are the strong ones..which is not what they have actually said, but that vibe is there nonetheless... or perhaps I am being overly sensitive.

I am the type of person that dives in head first and never regrets it, so perhaps there are personalities that are more prone to sub frenzy. I am very glad that I did not act upon my frenzy, but it was extemely distracting... almost like an obsession with BDSM that went unquenched.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to probablyknowme)

Post #: 33

RE: How do you cope with Frenzy - 11/10/2007 8:32:47 PM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

There are a lot of immature types in every walk of life, who seek to avoid responsibility. "I couldn't help it, I was drunk". "It's not my fault, I was suffering from frenzy". Sorry, none of that washes. Not in vanillas, and not in kinky types.

Unless someone held a gun to your head, you chose to get drunk. You chose to jump into bed with someone you knew you had nothing in common with.

I was a lot more frenzied once I was with a responsible man who I could trust than when I was unattached and desperately wanting. I'm an adult, I take responsibility for my choices. And I have a lot of self respect which is more important to me then the desire for kinky sex with strangers ever could be.

(in reply to daddyncherry)

Post #: 34

RE: How do you cope with Frenzy - 11/10/2007 9:18:13 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

There are a lot of immature types in every walk of life, who seek to avoid responsibility. "I couldn't help it, I was drunk". "It's not my fault, I was suffering from frenzy". Sorry, none of that washes. Not in vanillas, and not in kinky types.

Unless someone held a gun to your head, you chose to get drunk. You chose to jump into bed with someone you knew you had nothing in common with.

I was a lot more frenzied once I was with a responsible man who I could trust than when I was unattached and desperately wanting. I'm an adult, I take responsibility for my choices. And I have a lot of self respect which is more important to me then the desire for kinky sex with strangers ever could be.

Not everyone that has experienced sub frenzy has sex with strangers... your post is rather irrational, did it say that we were not responsible for what we do in the article? Did it say we would all have kinky sex with strangers? I do not believe the article said this.

You know, falling in love has been called temporary insanity by scientists, because new love can render a person not in their usual state of being... I would say frenzy is kinda like being head over heels in love, and when a person is head over heels in love they do stupid things sometimes. It does not mean they sacrifice their values, but they can be talked into things that they normally would not do... like give money to their beloved for example. Or calling in sick to work to spend time with their new love... or a million other things that are not wise to do, but people in love do them every day until the "new" wears off the relationship. A person that is totally infatuated will spend a good deal of their time fantasizing about the object of their affection...

That is what frenzy was like for me, and those feelings were mixed up with the man that introduced me to the lifestyle, but he and I did not meet until my frenzy was over... we chatted for months before we actually met. I did not do anything I was sorry for, but all I thought about for a few months was him, being dominated by him, wondering what it would feel like to be beaten by him... etc etc etc...I never compromised my values.

I do not see the problem with warning a submissive that she may go through a period of not being herself in relationship to her submissiveness and her sexuality. I think it is very benefical to do so, because then there is a name for it, and what we name we can cope with... not knowing could lead to more problems.

Personally, I do not see a person that plays with strangers as a bad person not deserving respect either. I do not think that because a person would do this it means they lack self respect. We all do what feels good and right to us, and they are not hurting me or anyone else, I really do not care what other people do... certainly not enough to disrespect them for it. But then again, I do not define people by what they have done, are doing, or will do with their genitals... I have known too many prudes that lacked integrity to believe that just because a person likes sex a lot means that they do not have any. As long as a person is honest about who they are banging and beating.. who cares?

Now perhaps none of you have experienced these feelings... I am not sorry I had sub frenzy, the longing had value to me, it showed me this was what I had wanted my entire life, but just did not have the wherewithall to pursue it.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 35

RE: How do you cope with Frenzy - 11/10/2007 9:30:53 PM

sakidorei

Posts: 65
Status: offline

i concur with juliaoceania!

i would certainly not use any syndrom, phenomina, or -state- to hang my own behavior on as a slave. i simply know what i've experienced and the compromises i have made in life and why i made them.

As i said ... personally i wouldn't call it a frenzy ... more like an insane itch ... but the term used still explains some of the common experiences of some people in the community. i am not looking for absolution or excuses ... but i think it's important for those new to the lifestyle or even those who have never heard of this type of explanation to hear it and hopefully better understand themselves.

saki
Property of Master D.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 36

RE: How do you cope with Frenzy - 11/10/2007 10:51:34 PM

probablyknowme

Posts: 1875
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

There are a lot of immature types in every walk of life, who seek to avoid responsibility. "I couldn't help it, I was drunk". "It's not my fault, I was suffering from frenzy". Sorry, none of that washes. Not in vanillas, and not in kinky types.

Unless someone held a gun to your head, you chose to get drunk. You chose to jump into bed with someone you knew you had nothing in common with.

I was a lot more frenzied once I was with a responsible man who I could trust than when I was unattached and desperately wanting. I'm an adult, I take responsibility for my choices. And I have a lot of self respect which is more important to me then the desire for kinky sex with strangers ever could be.

Well, thank you for sharing the fact that you did indeed experience some form of frenzy.

I personally do share my experience with sub frenzy as a way to excuse my behavior, but more so to serve as a warning to someone who might be new to this lifestyle and is experiencing some of the same feelings that I did. If something that I say catches the attention of one new submissive and saves him or her from making any of the mistakes I did, then my experiences count for something (other than making me a wiser person.)

And just for the record, I re-read my post here, and I am certain that nowhere in it did I say that I had kinky sex with strangers.

kat

_____________________________

The human mind is like a TV set. When it goes blank, it's a good idea to turn off the sound.
-Anon.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NewcomersOK/

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 37

RE: How do you cope with Frenzy - 11/11/2007 3:14:33 AM

sakidorei

Posts: 65
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

There are a lot of immature types in every walk of life, who seek to avoid responsibility. "I couldn't help it, I was drunk". "It's not my fault, I was suffering from frenzy". Sorry, none of that washes. Not in vanillas, and not in kinky types.

Unless someone held a gun to your head, you chose to get drunk. You chose to jump into bed with someone you knew you had nothing in common with.

I was a lot more frenzied once I was with a responsible man who I could trust than when I was unattached and desperately wanting. I'm an adult, I take responsibility for my choices. And I have a lot of self respect which is more important to me then the desire for kinky sex with strangers ever could be.

Celeste, i guess this post sort of confuses me because i just read a post by You in another section of the forum saying that presenting the concept of submission as a gift is helpful to newbies so they don't go off in a sub frenzy and make stupid mistakes like trusting untrustworthy people and then regretting their decision. Also that if they can realize that they are of value then they aren't likely to run off with the first Dom who says "kneel bitch".

You seemed to have a pretty decent understanding of the concept when you wrote this as well as the pifalls. But here you seem to disdain the entire -phenomina- as just an excuse. Am i misreading your post here?

saki
Property of Master D.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 38

RE: How do you cope with Frenzy - 11/11/2007 5:15:14 AM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

Saki, you aren't misreading me. Juliaoceania said she was talked into calling in sick, but she agreed to do so, she wasn't forced. She could have said that wasn't a good thing for her to do, she could have chosen someone who wouldn't want her to risk her job.

Did I have feelings of wanting to do everything, and do it all yesterday? Certainly. Did I choose to act on these feelings with people I wasn't absolutely, positive I was compatible with, with people I didn't share moral and ethical values with? Certainly not.

Does everyone agree to have kinky sex with people they've only talked to a couple of times, or just kinky play? No. And to me, if you just meet for coffee once and go to a motel the second time, yes you are still strangers.

It's like going out to dinner and then wanting dessert. I can look at the pastry selection, I can read a dessert menu, but it's my responsibity if I order the lava cake. I can't blame what the scale reads on the restaurant for tempting me.

(in reply to sakidorei)

Post #: 39

RE: How do you cope with Frenzy - 11/11/2007 7:09:49 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Saki, you aren't misreading me. Juliaoceania said she was talked into calling in sick, but she agreed to do so, she wasn't forced. She could have said that wasn't a good thing for her to do, she could have chosen someone who wouldn't want her to risk her job.

I did not say that....that was a hypothetical.. That was about what people do when they are in love, they do weird things.

I did quit a job to elope with my ex husband without notice though

Just because people are willing to take different risks than you in life, this does not make them flawed... just different than you.

quote:

Did I have feelings of wanting to do everything, and do it all yesterday? Certainly. Did I choose to act on these feelings with people I wasn't absolutely, positive I was compatible with, with people I didn't share moral and ethical values with? Certainly not.

Does everyone agree to have kinky sex with people they've only talked to a couple of times, or just kinky play? No. And to me, if you just meet for coffee once and go to a motel the second time, yes you are still strangers.

It's like going out to dinner and then wanting dessert. I can look at the pastry selection, I can read a dessert menu, but it's my responsibity if I order the lava cake. I can't blame what the scale reads on the restaurant for tempting me.

I take full responsibility for the fact I played with my Daddy the first day we met face to face... Oh hell yes I take responsibility for that. Never a risk I was happier that I took, because no matter what happens between us or where we end up, I love him deeply. Just to have loved as deeply as I love him was absolutely worth the risk! I was not in a frenzy the day I met him, I just looked into his eyes and knew... and the 4 months of talking to him on the phone may have not made me "know" him, but they certainly helped.

I do not know how anyone can claim to know the other completely until they have known each other for well over a year.... there are things I am still learning about my Daddy. Some of them are pleasant, some of them are not always pleasant. So how long do you have to know someone before you trust your gut about them? Or do you pay attention to your gut at all?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 40

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