RE: sub/slaves (Full Version)

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Prinsexx -> RE: sub/slaves (11/13/2007 9:34:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MidnightMaiden

When I met the man who became Master I was clear with him about that.  And then I got to know him, and realized the full extent of his care as Master, and I started experiencing something that another described beautifully on these forums "effortless bliss".  For every notion of freedom I surrendered, I gained real emotional freedom.  I lost nothing but fear and insecurity, and gained more than I can ever put into words... and that's only how I feel about me, that's not even starting on how I feel about him :)  I will never understand the rewards my Master receives, for I feel that the shackles he adopted, the weight of his responsibilities, are far heavier than any restraints placed upon me.


This is poetry.....so beautifully written




Prinsexx -> RE: sub/slaves (11/13/2007 9:40:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant

I am not a sub..never was a sub...never will be a sub. Subs are elongated bread rolls filled with deli meats and cheeses and can be purchased at Blimpies or Quiznos.

I submit to Master Archer, as his slave. I do not have a natural submissive personality.


Both are delicious I'm sure....




Prinsexx -> RE: sub/slaves (11/13/2007 9:42:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

The letters after the "s" dont matter to me, the relationship with the person does.



oh so slut must be cool then  :))




Prinsexx -> RE: sub/slaves (11/13/2007 9:51:27 AM)

From Wipipedia:

Slave
Gender: The term slave is gender-independent: slaves can be male or female and of any sexual orientation. In English, if a slave's gender must be indicated, use a phrase like "female slave" or "male slave", or the common compound terms slave-girl or slave-boy. Some male slaves are 'sissified' - i.e., they prefer to be treated in a traditionally feminine manner. Being Owned Slave is a term often used to connote a submissive or servile partner in a Mistress/Master-Slave relationship. Such a person could also be a masochist or "bottom" but this is not always the case. The slave has usually given the right for their owner to exercise authority over them in some sense, within a relationship that may extend to a full time, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Connotatively it refers to a person who has surrendered their personal property and freedoms and become the property or chattel of their owner or Master. Strictly speaking, to be a slave, one must be owned but many people searching for an owner will call themselves "slave" as an indication of the position they are hoping to eventually have. It should be noted that the relationship is strictly consensual, and whether purely symbolic or due to a state of psychological Enslavement, no legal ownership is involved. Casual Usage and Variation Some people in a relationship enjoy the psychological impact of calling their partner "slave" or having their partner call them "slave". Such usage is not by itself an indication that they are a slave any more than calling a partner 'bitch' indicates that they are a female dog. Many matchmaking web sites will encourage the usage of the term 'slave' for someone who is currently single and looking for a partner. Strictly speaking, this is an indication that the person has the orientation of a slave and is interested in being enslaved, or in acting the role of slave and is not an indication that they are currently owned. The term "slave" is widely used, as it has a certain self-affirming weight. The difference between submissive and slave is the degree of submission. There is considerable debate over the exact definition of ""slave"". Contracts Some people draw up "slave contracts" that define the relationship, but these usually have no legal weight and are not intended to be used in court. After signing a slave contract, many people celebrate the commitment with a "collaring ceremony", which can be simple or elaborate and friends are usually invited. The slave then wears a "collar", which symbolizes their status. The collar may be an actual piece of neckwear, or may be a bracelet or other piece of jewelry that symbolizes their slavery. Some collars are not removed until the relationship is disolved, although some slaves have a "formal" and a "subdued" collar for work and vanilla situations.

Submissive
Adjective "Being" submissive is wanting to or being willing to submit to orders or wishes of another. Showing an inclination in this way. An overriding desire to be pleasing. Willingly submitting without resistance to authority. Being subservient or servile. Enjoying erotic activities in feeling powerlessness or under the control of another. Noun In BDSM, "a" submissive refers to the person who takes on the submissive role for the duration of a scene or is a submissive partner within a power exchange relationship. They are not necessarily submissive generally. This term can be associated with being on the receiving end of bondage, discipline or sadism but need not necessarily be any of these. The term submissive as a noun is mostly synonymous with sub but some people use it more widely to denote anyone disposed to be submissive and would therefore say that a submissive might be a bottom, a sub or a slave. Not all slaves feel themselves to be submissive, however and not all bottoms are submissive. Note that it is not uncommon for two partners to switch roles from one encounter to the other, or even during a single encounter, depending on mood and preference.
Submissive behavior A submissive person submits of their own free will and seeks to submit to another, or consents to another's dominance. Submissives vary in how seriously they take their position, training, and situation. Motivations for engaging in submissive behavior may include relief from responsibility, being the object of attention and affection, gaining a sense of security, showing off endurance, and working through issues of shame. Others simply enjoy a 'natural' feeling when they are in the presence of their more dominant partner. What are known as service-oriented submissive may also have a deep seated desire to be "of use". Submissives also vary in the extent to which they engage in play, in how often they play, and even in whether they consider their role "play" at all. Within a S&M-only context particularly, submissive is often considered synonymous with bottom while others opine that a submissive is specifically pursuing a D/s power exchange as a key element, whereas a 'bottom' may or may not be interested (or even willing) to engage in a power exchange relationship. Some have proposed the "pitcher" and "catcher" (borrowed from baseball terminology) as more neutral terminology, with the "pitcher" delivering the sensation, the instruction, etc; and the "catcher" receiving what is "pitched."    




bipolarber -> RE: sub/slaves (11/13/2007 10:02:27 AM)

Larry Townsend, in his seminal BDSM book, "The Leatherman's Handbook" he states that the kind of person who is capable of being a slave is very particular. They have to be willing to adapt, or give up their lives outside of the relationship, and commit themselves totally to their owner/Master. Not everyone is able to do that.

Submission is like going to church regularly.... becoming a slave is like joining a monestary.

Similar, but NOT identical.

Personally, I'm happy just going to church. I have too much of a life outside of sex and relationships with others to be able to convert. This is an important part of my life, yes, but it's not my WHOLE life.

Your milage may vary.




Prinsexx -> RE: sub/slaves (11/13/2007 10:43:26 AM)

To bipolarber:
subs, slave , slut...it must be an s word thing....

but why oh why do I love that word seminal?................





TemptingNviceSub -> RE: sub/slaves (11/13/2007 7:39:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Good point. I'm just surprised no one's remarked on the difference.


I don't think anyone is that dumb.

Just looking at the replies in this thread, I can see a whole lot of people pontificating, but all the answers differ in some degree or another.

Apparently, there is a difference between a slave or a sub since everyone keeps referencing it with such certainty and confidence, but any actual specifics regarding that difference is nowhere to be found. Mostly a lot of vague double talk.

I think this is one of those subject's where everyone likes to pretend they know what they are talking about, but in reality, have no idea.

Unfortunately, to have an actual idea or to adequately explain why people cross over from one label to the other, we would have to provide common and universal definitions that apply to everyone who adopts the labels.

However, the one positive to this lack of universal definitions or universal differences is that no negative can be proved to the infinite number of speculations and personal conjectures being presented in threads like these.

Everyone gets to be an expert and no one gets to be wrong!

Nietzsche would be proud.

I might as well throw in a few explanations myself....

1. A subbie got tired of the drama with her subbie friends and developed a superiority complex to cope with leaving the social group, becoming a "slave" to show how much better she is then them.
2. A former submissive met a True "online" Master with his own psycho-spiritual conjecture of the glory of the "True slave over the True submissive" and converted to his version of the One True Way as his own personal True sex slave and mindless zealot.
3. A slave met a social group of subbies and adopted the label of "subbie" to "fit in".
4. A submissive met a cliché of "True Masters" and became a "True slave" so she could spend endless hours buffing up her own ego, conversing about how great/awesome/enlightened/Masterly/slavely/BDSMly her group is then everyone else in the "lifestyle".

So does your viewpoint now make you an expert on pontificating?..Not only did you negate anything anyone else said, but with a savoire faire added your own thoughts in such a manner as to negate yourself...Very good MR,a very nice showcase of your cynacism at its finest..Tempting




MadRabbit -> RE: sub/slaves (11/13/2007 8:24:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Good point. I'm just surprised no one's remarked on the difference.


I don't think anyone is that dumb.

Just looking at the replies in this thread, I can see a whole lot of people pontificating, but all the answers differ in some degree or another.

Apparently, there is a difference between a slave or a sub since everyone keeps referencing it with such certainty and confidence, but any actual specifics regarding that difference is nowhere to be found. Mostly a lot of vague double talk.

I think this is one of those subject's where everyone likes to pretend they know what they are talking about, but in reality, have no idea.

Unfortunately, to have an actual idea or to adequately explain why people cross over from one label to the other, we would have to provide common and universal definitions that apply to everyone who adopts the labels.

However, the one positive to this lack of universal definitions or universal differences is that no negative can be proved to the infinite number of speculations and personal conjectures being presented in threads like these.

Everyone gets to be an expert and no one gets to be wrong!

Nietzsche would be proud.

I might as well throw in a few explanations myself....

1. A subbie got tired of the drama with her subbie friends and developed a superiority complex to cope with leaving the social group, becoming a "slave" to show how much better she is then them.
2. A former submissive met a True "online" Master with his own psycho-spiritual conjecture of the glory of the "True slave over the True submissive" and converted to his version of the One True Way as his own personal True sex slave and mindless zealot.
3. A slave met a social group of subbies and adopted the label of "subbie" to "fit in".
4. A submissive met a cliché of "True Masters" and became a "True slave" so she could spend endless hours buffing up her own ego, conversing about how great/awesome/enlightened/Masterly/slavely/BDSMly her group is then everyone else in the "lifestyle".

So does your viewpoint now make you an expert on pontificating?..Not only did you negate anything anyone else said, but with a savoire faire added your own thoughts in such a manner as to negate yourself...Very good MR,a very nice showcase of your cynacism at its finest..Tempting


Does that mean I get to be part of the group hug with everyone else in the big black hole of nihilism?

Edited to Add : Okay...but seriously...I am not trying to be an arrogant prick in this one, regardless of what was communicated.

I just find it incredibly odd that if we did a search right now on the endless number of "Definition of sub/slave threads" that litter the wasteland of Collarme.com, I am sure the only thing we can determine from the endless debates is that there is no meaning or difference that can be applied universally to people.

So...given that we as a community have done a great job of negating any universal meaning to these two labels, then by default any conjecture, generalizations, assumption, or opinion as to why people changle from one undefined label to the other should also be meaningless as well?

The negation of my own explanations and examples was the point. Given that we have created this empty void for the two entities of submissive and slave, isn't "Most slaves becomes submissives because they like choclate milk." just as meaningful of an explanation as any given here today?




dcnovice -> RE: sub/slaves (11/13/2007 8:29:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Good point. I'm just surprised no one's remarked on the difference.


I don't think anyone is that dumb.


Joke, dude.




pinksugarsub -> RE: sub/slaves (11/13/2007 8:31:12 PM)

Never ceases to amaze me that this subject can be reignited every 48 hours with such vigor.
 
For me the difference between submissive and slave are not especially meaningful; all i know is when i find Him i will have some soft limits that disappear and some hard ones that soften.  It's not the destination for me; it's the journey.
 
pinksugarsub




TemptingNviceSub -> RE: sub/slaves (11/13/2007 8:38:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Good point. I'm just surprised no one's remarked on the difference.


I don't think anyone is that dumb.

Just looking at the replies in this thread, I can see a whole lot of people pontificating, but all the answers differ in some degree or another.

Apparently, there is a difference between a slave or a sub since everyone keeps referencing it with such certainty and confidence, but any actual specifics regarding that difference is nowhere to be found. Mostly a lot of vague double talk.

I think this is one of those subject's where everyone likes to pretend they know what they are talking about, but in reality, have no idea.

Unfortunately, to have an actual idea or to adequately explain why people cross over from one label to the other, we would have to provide common and universal definitions that apply to everyone who adopts the labels.

However, the one positive to this lack of universal definitions or universal differences is that no negative can be proved to the infinite number of speculations and personal conjectures being presented in threads like these.

Everyone gets to be an expert and no one gets to be wrong!

Nietzsche would be proud.

I might as well throw in a few explanations myself....

1. A subbie got tired of the drama with her subbie friends and developed a superiority complex to cope with leaving the social group, becoming a "slave" to show how much better she is then them.
2. A former submissive met a True "online" Master with his own psycho-spiritual conjecture of the glory of the "True slave over the True submissive" and converted to his version of the One True Way as his own personal True sex slave and mindless zealot.
3. A slave met a social group of subbies and adopted the label of "subbie" to "fit in".
4. A submissive met a cliché of "True Masters" and became a "True slave" so she could spend endless hours buffing up her own ego, conversing about how great/awesome/enlightened/Masterly/slavely/BDSMly her group is then everyone else in the "lifestyle".

So does your viewpoint now make you an expert on pontificating?..Not only did you negate anything anyone else said, but with a savoire faire added your own thoughts in such a manner as to negate yourself...Very good MR,a very nice showcase of your cynacism at its finest..Tempting


Does that mean I get to be part of the group hug with everyone else in the big black hole of nihilism?
No, it simply means you are young and arrogant and right now feel you know everything there is to know about anything...but this too shall pass....and I still wish you well..:0)...Tempting




MadRabbit -> RE: sub/slaves (11/13/2007 8:42:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

Does that mean I get to be part of the group hug with everyone else in the big black hole of nihilism?
No, it simply means you are young and arrogant and right now feel you know everything there is to know about anything...but this too shall pass....and I still wish you well..:0)...Tempting


Hey...hey...read my edit. There was actually a great point to my sardonic and arrogant musings.

I do look forward to when this does pass and I become old and arrogant and really do know everything about everything as opposed to right now where my arrogance on these boards is dissed because I only THINK I know everything.




destiny1ofone -> RE: sub/slaves (11/13/2007 11:55:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fit2pleaseu


a question.....one i would like to hear your opinions on please.
HOW MANY SUBS BECOME SLAVES.....?
AND WHY.....?



this girl started out exploring her submissive nature and discovered a slave heart within her being. There is no why...it is who i am.




hermione83 -> RE: sub/slaves (11/14/2007 1:51:29 AM)

A: No submissive has ever become a slave. Changing only by terms (which could be false  or if not - a rose by any other name...), realization and the prior ignorace, and by capture of the body only is not included in this.
                             




RCdc -> RE: sub/slaves (11/14/2007 4:26:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

No, it simply means you are young and arrogant and right now feel you know everything there is to know about anything...but this too shall pass....and I still wish you well..:0)...Tempting


That was a good example of a passive aggressive stance.
MR was suggesting the point that there is no set definition, and to suggest that there is or that to even say - 'I was a submissive but I became something more/became a slave' would be naive at best.
Chocolate milk doesn't make you become a slave when you are a submissive, it could however bring out a certain reaction which is already inside.
 
the.dark.




adoracat -> RE: sub/slaves (11/14/2007 8:11:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
Chocolate milk doesn't make you become a slave when you are a submissive, it could however bring out a certain reaction which is already inside.
 
the.dark.

 
oh i like that.  *smiles*  that's really how it felt to me, i *knew* that i prefer to be one way, submissive.  but in relating to Daddy, its becoming clear that i am his slave.  and i'm happy/content with that.  he's the first person that has given me the freedom and guidance to find that part of me.
 
personally, i think that submissive and slave are just different degrees on the same spectrum, and its up to the individual and their dominant to find where they sit.
 
kitten, comptemplative




Prinsexx -> RE: sub/slaves (11/14/2007 9:33:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Okay...but seriously...I am not trying to be an arrogant prick in this one, regardless of what was communicated.




No-one tries to be an arrogant prick......especially seriously....maybe they just are........
but I take your point...... maybe we will never get universal objective agreement about subs and slaves beacuse they are descriptions of very subjective experiences.




MadRabbit -> RE: sub/slaves (11/14/2007 3:37:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Okay...but seriously...I am not trying to be an arrogant prick in this one, regardless of what was communicated.




No-one tries to be an arrogant prick......especially seriously....maybe they just are........
but I take your point...... maybe we will never get universal objective agreement about subs and slaves beacuse they are descriptions of very subjective experiences.



Well, thank you very much for realizing my point AND hurling another passive aggressive attack. That is defiently just step one from JUST a passive aggressive attack as demonstrated before by some of the other mature adults before who posted who are supposed to be setting a good example for an impressionable youth like myself.




TemptingNviceSub -> RE: sub/slaves (11/14/2007 6:31:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

Does that mean I get to be part of the group hug with everyone else in the big black hole of nihilism?
No, it simply means you are young and arrogant and right now feel you know everything there is to know about anything...but this too shall pass....and I still wish you well..:0)...Tempting


Hey...hey...read my edit. There was actually a great point to my sardonic and arrogant musings.

I do look forward to when this does pass and I become old and arrogant and really do know everything about everything as opposed to right now where my arrogance on these boards is dissed because I only THINK I know everything.
Dear sweet Mad..I am afraid I posted before your edit..so I apologise for the snark....and yes you do make a point..but do not forget when you first arrived here some of the questions asked then had also been repititious as well..and most likely when I joined repetitious then too..and on and on and on..and frankly Mad..I also highly respected many of your opinions,they were well thought out and made huge common sense...and very few dissed you, but lately, to me, it seems that you have become disenchanted with this forum and many of its participants..and have taken a stance of cynacism,and negativity and I guess that saddened me a bit..So more than likely I took that out on you..and so I hope you will accept my sincere apology, especially for playing the youth card, that was unfair of me...best/Tempting




TemptingNviceSub -> RE: sub/slaves (11/14/2007 6:54:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

No, it simply means you are young and arrogant and right now feel you know everything there is to know about anything...but this too shall pass....and I still wish you well..:0)...Tempting


That was a good example of a passive aggressive stance.
MR was suggesting the point that there is no set definition, and to suggest that there is or that to even say - 'I was a submissive but I became something more/became a slave' would be naive at best.
Chocolate milk doesn't make you become a slave when you are a submissive, it could however bring out a certain reaction which is already inside.
 
the.dark.
Yes Dark, it was a good example of passive aggressive..and a poor reflection of myself..but also know that it was posted long before the edit that Mad supplied..and I fully agree there is no set definition of sub/slaves...just as there are no set definitions on the color blue...we all have an idea on what that is..but it will still differ person to person..so sometimes blue will look blue on one but look turquoise on another..it fully depends on its wearer, and the background it is set against..Tempting




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