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RE: Black Income Levels About Half That of Whites. - 11/14/2007 2:49:12 PM

Crush

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What about the crack dealers? I bet they aren't declaring their full income?

Any stat can be skewed, as Disraeli pointed out:

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

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RE: Black Income Levels About Half That of Whites. - 11/14/2007 2:51:23 PM

RealityLicks

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What I'm saying is that the figure is probably too high because the kids may have enrolled elsewhere and that black and white rates are comparable. Somehow, that has come out as an anecdote of black kids refusing to study -- and in today's climate, it sounds credible. The fact it is inaccurate does not alter perceptions because the black=problem matrix is strongly embedded.

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RE: Black Income Levels About Half That of Whites. - 11/14/2007 2:57:13 PM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

What I'm saying is that the figure is probably too high because the kids may have enrolled elsewhere and that black and white rates are comparable. Somehow, that has come out as an anecdote of black kids refusing to study -- and in today's climate, it sounds credible. The fact it is inaccurate does not alter perceptions because the black=problem matrix is strongly embedded.

Well if "only" 40 % of Blacks drop out of school this (is) a huge problem.

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RE: Black Income Levels About Half That of Whites. - 11/14/2007 3:00:22 PM

seeksfemslave

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quote:

RealityLicks
In the UK, black people are statistically a) more likely to be graduates b) less likely to use drugs c) more likely to be unemployed than whites.

I decided not even to read this thread but my curiosity got the better of me and I thought..lets have a peek..and I came across this load of ...err err .. barlux
If by black you are speaking of Afros then with regard to educational achievement nothing could be further from the truth..
If by black you include Asian then that is nearer the truth....But if you think white society gives you a raw deal I think you would be rather surprised to experience the treatment you would get on the Indian subcontinent.

If Afros are so smart why is it that they cant pull themselves up by their bootsraps.
All they can do is whinge about nasty whitey.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 11/14/2007 3:47:58 PM >

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RE: Black Income Levels About Half That of Whites. - 11/14/2007 3:04:46 PM

popeye1250

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Seeks, yeah! And how's that African space program comming along?
And when can we expect re-payment of all that foreign aid money from the last 40 years?

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RE: Black Income Levels About Half That of Whites. - 11/14/2007 3:07:27 PM

RealityLicks

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

What you may have failed to focus in on is that black on black crime is reported so much for two reasons.
#1 it is PROPORTIONATLY out of the statistical norm for all people in the US.
#2 is that it is s symptom of a real problem the black community eating their own.

The loss of faith that education is the route out of poverty is a huge problem.
The movement of black society from the lowest of poverty to law and doctor's offices was higher but is falling off.

I would contend that the central problem is that loss of faith.

I'd like to see the statistics you've seen for white on white crime. I don't remember seeing a single news source use that term. Yet talk about black unemployment and suddenly its a "class issue". Are the crime fugures adjusted for class?

White people in America shoot each other. A lot. But they also dominate positive media stories because the majority has to be made to feel good about itself. Even at the expense of an out-group.

Ironically if you were to focus on white collar crime, you could build a convincing case that white people are pathologically "eating themselves", too.

Frantz Fanon had some interesting ideas about that particular image but I digress.

You're right about the loss of faith, I think. Disillusionment is not an excuse for crime but why lose faith if the myths are not true? Maybe because a whole community should not have to defend themselves based on the widespread myth that they are all criminals. Its literally an impossible task.

Why do you think that black incomes are lower? If they were going up, why should black people suddenly reverse a beneficial trend, coincidentally under a populist Republican Govt, cowboys and winking CIA suits and all?

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RE: Black Income Levels About Half That of Whites. - 11/14/2007 3:54:12 PM

servantforuse

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I guess that this is Bush's fault to.

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RE: Black Income Levels About Half That of Whites. - 11/14/2007 9:49:46 PM

Archer

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Sure you could make that case but with a majority of the population being white we can take a few more years of it before we reach the point where it's not recoverable.
Once you drop bellow a certain level of population percentages the effect is magified. The other thing is with white collar crime the result is usually recoverable.
When it comes to violent crimes the effects are far less easily shaken off.

Statistics are easy enough
Murder is THE leading cause of death in the african american males and the second leading cause in black females of the 15-24 age range.
91% of those murders were committed by other African Americans.
http://www.hhscenter.org/bonbstat.html

additionally
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

In 2005, homicide victimization rates for blacks were 6 times higher than the rates for whites.
In 2005, offending rates for blacks were more than 7 times higher than the rates for whitesThose are per capita rates

With an overall population of 12-15% the rate should be that blacks commit 12-15% of all murders, however the statistics show they commit 52% roughly, way outside a normal distribution.

Statistics from U.S. Department of Justice · Office of Justice Programs Bureau of Justice Statistics

BTW I'm not attributing it to anything genetic, rather I am attributing it to the loss of faith that they can make it out of their income level.
And possibly a certain level of the before mentioned academic achieviement being viewed as "acting white".

a pair of scholarly articles citing the problem have been published and linked bellow
http://www.springerlink.com/content/k1576rj3p2x51q6t/
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=6D5ZP7FrXUAC&oi=fnd&pg=PR9&dq=%22Davidson%22+%22Making+and+Molding+Identity+in+Schools:+Student+...%22+&ots=HINvX8w94t&sig=lFo8qk8m3okPx5DGAUUP6TZ1gH8

There are certainly some contentions that the studies have some flaws, but they are far from being out of the mainstream of thought.

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RE: Black Income Levels About Half That of Whites. - 11/14/2007 11:54:08 PM

brightspot

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~FR

I know racism is alive and well, still I don't think it is a white/black thing.
This country exists of many ethic people, Black, Native American, African Blacks,
an assortment of Asian, Mexican, Indians from India and many new "white" imigrants. etc.
Yes, race can play a part and does quite often, but I tend to think it is more about classism.
Maybe I see it that way because I am and always have been a northern urbanite. We have lot's of poor uneducated white folk up here too, in trailers by the tracks.
I am aware of many different races who hold job's of power here and also the same array of colors standing in the soup lines everyday.
Classism at least here seems to takes more precedence.

Missy.

< Message edited by brightspot -- 11/14/2007 11:55:05 PM >

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RE: Black Income Levels About Half That of Whites. - 11/15/2007 3:26:40 AM

pinksugarsub

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i asked a girlfriend in law school a question when we were all getting interviewed. Which do you think the employer is more affected by: your sex or your race?

Without hestitation she said 'race'. This was at the tail end of the women-don't-need-to-go-to-law-school era and well before any woman bumped her head on a glass ceiling.

i can drive an old beat up car, look like i just fell out of bed, and still get better treatment and more respect than a black woman in my neighborhood dressed for work driving a luxury automobile, and paying cash for her gas. And this is the urban north.

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RE: Black Income Levels About Half That of Whites. - 11/16/2007 2:47:53 PM

Crush

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It comes back to cultural expectations. If your culture expects you to excel, you excel. If your culture expects you to go to college and flunk out and come back to the farm, that's what you do. (That example was from when I went to college for kids from Kissimmee...note: not black, just the cultural expectations.)

If your culture expects you to find blame instead of solutions, you look for ways to blame someone instead of finding a solution.

If your culture includes a disrespect for authority, you disrespect authority...or rather, you respect a "different" authority.

People escape cultures often. Heck, many of us here escaped the "vanilla" culture we grew up in. And mostly we've found ways to co-exist in both cultures.

You want to make a change in a populace? You work to cause change in the expectations and values of the culture. History is full of examples, both good and bad, how this works every time. (For those that need examples: Consider slavery and how it was accepted, then became abolished. Consider the role of religion in feudal societies. Heck, just consider the impact of the cell phone over the past few years!)

Change expectations and values and you change the culture. Reinforce values and expectations and you maintain the culture.

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RE: Black Income Levels About Half That of Whites. - 11/16/2007 2:53:47 PM

kittinSol

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