RE: .neatlittleboxes. (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 11:39:44 AM)

I endeavor to do my best to live an authentic life, which is why my family knows that I am a masochist. I think my mother suspects I am a submissive, because I have not said anything to the contrary when she questioned me about it this last summer... my propensity to be involved with "controlling" men is rather known by my family, and I do not apologize for it.

Now I enjoy dressing up on occasion and the theater of that, but I am who I am no matter what I wear. It is important to me to be who I am, increasingly so as I get older.

I am of the opinion I am perfect just being myself... when I stray from being who I am is when the problems start.

We all have different families and different jobs. I do not think people are being "fake" because they do not tell all their loved ones and their boss about this aspect of their lives... it really is an individual choice. I have not told my UM and probably never will.. it is none of his business.



FRSguy -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 12:03:59 PM)

LOL, that is one hell of a random thought.  I would hate to have a serious discussion with you.  For the most part I couldn’t agree more with you.  I find that the way people comment on vanilla lifestyle when doing comparisons can be somewhat distasteful however I do use the term in order to differentiate between people of different lifestyles because it is an effective way to describe a person who is not into kink and does not agree with it and would most likely object to this lifestyle. I discriminate against them in the sense that I would not consider dating or seeing a woman that is vanilla. As far as the slots are concerned I agree.  I often feel as though the people that try to identify with bdsm often get way to caught up in the way that they feel things should be for the other people surrounding the lifestyle without giving respect to the degrees in differences as if all people involved in bdsm should somehow have identical likes / dislikes and sexuality and that every variation away from there personal sexuality is somehow wrong or misguided. I find this line of thinking to be equally as misguided as the traditional viewpoint vanilla lifestyles hold for people involved in bdsm and our feelings that we are discriminated against by them so in that way all things seem equal making it nearly impossible to find a cultural middle ground.  I tend to view sex in general as a lot of lovely little toys on a shelf where I can pick and choose those things that I like and leave behind those that I don’t like without having to identify with a specific as in I have to use this toy because that is the type of toy this particular slot uses.  



sexyred1 -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 12:16:53 PM)

How unrealistic to think that adults who have to live in the real world (work in corporate America), interact with close family and vanilla friends, should be "open" about their sexual proclivities in the name of being "authentic". Please.

I am as authenthic and open and honest as possible, yet I would never thrust my sexual interests or thoughts on my beloved family, my vanilla friends, my co-workers, boss, the mailman, the super of my building, the guy who bags my groceries, my cleaning woman, the dry cleaner, etc.

Why? Am I lying by not revealing every nook and cranny of my personality to them? Of course not. By not sharing my sexual interests with any of these people, it does not make me less of a good daughter, interesting  friend, capable professional woman, good employee, kind neighbor, good samaritan, etc.

It is no one's business what I do and not my business what they do behind closed doors unless I was meeting someone for a potential partnership. Then it would be.

So the OP's random theory on neat little boxes is just that, a random thought and not very realistic for most people, I would venture.



RCdc -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 12:47:08 PM)

Thanks Stephann -  I really appriciate your thoughts and taking the time to share.  I also couldn't agree more that 'society' is ignorant how 'most' relationships work.
 
the.dark.



RCdc -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 12:59:35 PM)

Hi velvet
 
I don't hold the belief that we owe anyone anything, least of all an explaination of our sexual preferences.  But sexual practise isn't what I initially think of when I think BDSM or especially Ds.  My thought occurs that the way some people post or speak when not speaking about online discussions like this) 'become' something and someone different - like a duel personality.  It's not about bringing the subject up, but it's about being yourself, regardless of whom you are with.  Trying to verbalise, if I remember rightly, you have spiritual beliefs that are or are similar to buddhist?  So - what I am trying to verbalise is that there may be people you interact with who do know your beliefs, and there are those that don't.  You don't proclaim them, but you don't hide them.  To me, my BDSM is the same, no 'different' in that sense to my spiritual leanings, or my painting etc... if that makes any sense)
 
thanks for the thoughts...
the.dark.



RCdc -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 1:01:55 PM)

thanks kitten - that is what I was 'getting' at - blergh but me and my big long words and irony huh...[;)]
 
the.dark.



RCdc -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 1:03:54 PM)

Hey pinkie, it's really good to see you posting again. [:)]
 
the.dark.



RCdc -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 1:08:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Now I enjoy dressing up on occasion and the theater of that, but I am who I am no matter what I wear. It is important to me to be who I am, increasingly so as I get older.

I am of the opinion I am perfect just being myself... when I stray from being who I am is when the problems start.


Precisely julia - thanks for the input.  I am the same - enjoying the dressing up for the occasion when it's a swanky restaurant or the opposite when going off roading - but I am always the same person.
 
(As an aside - it's yummy to see you posting again[:)])
the.dark.



RCdc -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 1:11:03 PM)

Meh - random thought or serious discussions - you wait 'til ya see my humerous side...[;)]  Thanks for the input and the interesting read... I loved the 'toy' analagy.
 
the.dark.



RCdc -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 1:24:24 PM)

Hi red.
 
Just replying to you as you are the last person(but not the only) who responded mentioning being open about their 'sexual practises'.  I find that an interesting assumption, because not once did I mention about being open about sexual practises.  I was speaking about BDSM in general - and that can include the Pro Dom or the male service-only slave or the submissive who lives with her transgendered switch husband.  BDSM practises may be sexual for a 'majority' (without a full on study, that's a guess) however not all BDSM is sexual activites or even sexual stimulation (there have been threads upon threads on that).  I know that my Ds relationship with Darcy isn't all  'sexual' - just as we may be perceived as having 'vanilla' moments when we hold hands - but it is and has BDSM intwined within it 24 hours of the day, seven days of the week.
 
I believe I now understand where the conflict lies for some people - in the sexual sterotype - thanks.[:)]
 
the.dark.



MidnightMaiden -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 1:50:09 PM)

To flagrantly flaunt my lifestyle to those who have not asked for the information is disrespectful.  I don't see that as any more acceptable than the Jehoviah's coming to my door and handing me a copy of The Watchtower.  I am who I am, if you ask I will answer, but I am not going to go rubbing your nose in it for my own sense of self validation... in fact that hints to me of insecurity.  I am perfectly OK with who I am and what I do, it is for that reason that I don't need to go educating the world at large about it.



Missokyst -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 1:52:00 PM)

Even eliminating the sexual aspect of BDSM.. my question is still, WHY is it necessary to share how you interact with your mate with anyone who is close to you in  your life?  Why does it become necessary to say to your mother, sister, friend, employer, ect, that you are submissive to your mate?  Does it make you somehow better to think how open you can be about revealing personal details? 
I have people in my life that are close, inner circle sort, that know I am sub.  And family, co-workers, ect who are in my life but I do not consider it their business to know how I may choose to interact with a man.  Why should they know these things?  Why would I want to know these things about their lifestyle?  Frankly, I am not that nosy, and not that interested in shouting this from the rooftops. 
You know why?  I am comfortable being me.  I don't need anyones validation.  I don't need to tell anyone who is simply in my life, about what I do because I don't care what they think about it.
It has nothing to do with my not being my authentic self.  I AM what I am.  I am the same in and our of bdsm.  It is only my reactions to some that cause an adjustment to the behave toward them. That certainly isn't going to happen with people who I love, but am not intimate with.
Putting it on the nilla side for a bit..
I was shocked when my mother who is age 85, asked me what an orgasm was.  I found out more about her sex life now that she is losing it abit then I ever wanted to know.  I knew the way she acted toward my dad.  That was obvious.  Just as the way I act toward anyone I am engaging is obvious. I cater to my mate.  There is nothing unusual about it.  The thing is though, anyone I am in a DS relationship with is not the type to demand I kiss his feet in public.  People I hang out with have no need to flaunt what we do to everyone.
It is easy to be yourself when you are comfy.  You just are.  No need to flaunt things, just be.  And it will always remain a puzzlement to me when people feel the need to be overly open, if I have no interest in knowing.  THAT for me is distasteful.  If they wanted to know they should just ask.  If I want to know I will. 
I don't pick my nose in public either.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Hi red.
 
Just replying to you as you are the last person(but not the only) who responded mentioning being open about their 'sexual practises'.  I find that an interesting assumption, because not once did I mention about being open about sexual practises.  I was speaking about BDSM in general - and that can include the Pro Dom or the male service-only slave or the submissive who lives with her transgendered switch husband. 



RumpusParable -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 2:15:04 PM)

I generally agree with the OP..

I use the terms "vanilla" and "lifestyle/BDSM" but mostly because it's part of trying to communicate with others who use the distinction.  I don't have two sides to my life, I don't feel that there's anything different or of another value in these headings...  My life is just my life and others seem to live these things separately so I try to talk in a way we can relate.

I was thinking on this hard in answering one woman's question on these boards last night (I'm sorry, I don't remember your name) about who do we who don't have sex with subs have sex with.  She asked, I'm not sure if it was playfully or seriously, if it was with vanillas or dominants while implying negativity or disbelief towards the vanilla answer.

I answered "vanilla and fellow dominants" because it was the best answer I could give to her question as posed... but in truth I don't know if I've ever even met someone "vanilla".  I know I've never slept with this oft-heard-of creature -not because of intentionally ruling them out ever but just because I've yet to run into one in bed.

I've met people who I *think* *might* be "vanilla" as others imply its meaning... or maybe they just don' feel that all the details of their life and fantasies are to be set at my feet. 

And to be completely blunt, I'm often especially amused at people here and similar places in real or online life talking about their previously bad vanilla sex life and how much more amazing BDSM has made it... when their elaboration on this shows that the issue wasn't a matter of vanill sex vs. BDSM sex... it was just bad sex vs. good sex.  I can't count how many times I've felt like saying, "What you just described is still a vanilla sex life, you finally found someone who acts like they want to be there while in bed" as they describe their new "kink" inclusions.

Not saying that many do not find that BDSM enriches their lives both sexually and not, but rather that that ^ is a recurring theme heard within that larger group of people claiming it.

Back on subject, though, I've always been "out"...and at the same time am extremely private about my life.  Some have known me since childhood and have no idea that I am involved in all this fun.   Not out of any discomfort with my life or the things I've done in it, but it's never come up or I know they'd not be interested in it.

Then there are people who know within 10 minutes of meeting me because a topic relating to it came up that soon.

My parents know, but not fully... again no hiding of things, just people with whom it rarely comes up.  And I've "vanilla" interests and behaviors that to them are weird enough that they've long written off anything out-of-their-norm as "Oh, that's just Rumpus".  My mother made more of a comment of me walking naked through a closed-section hotel party a couple years ago (again) than my telling her that I spent my weekend at a medical-play demo and wondered if she could get me X (she's a nurse) to play with on people.  That and I end up having to explain a lot on things I tell her about, so I tend to not bother and just say "hung out with friends" rather than going into the TENS unit  and cutting play we all did last night.  And so on. 

There's just "life" for me and life has a lot of different things in it, all mixed up together.






toservez -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 2:19:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MidnightMaiden

To flagrantly flaunt my lifestyle to those who have not asked for the information is disrespectful.  I don't see that as any more acceptable than the Jehoviah's coming to my door and handing me a copy of The Watchtower.  I am who I am, if you ask I will answer, but I am not going to go rubbing your nose in it for my own sense of self validation... in fact that hints to me of insecurity.  I am perfectly OK with who I am and what I do, it is for that reason that I don't need to go educating the world at large about it.


That is exactly how I see it and way better expressed then my feeble attempt. Since when did transgender have anything to do with BDSM?

I guess I am living this life in shame and am an untrustworthy person because when I tell a coworker I have to check with my other to see if it is ok we do something after work that I do not go on and give them a thirty minute speech into my personal relationship’s dynamic and then expect them to go into a thirty minute speech about their own. I must be living it wrong also because it for some reason just hardly has ever come up in normal situations where it is lie or confess absolute time.

I do not have to worry about my job or reactions from family or friends. I just have never needed to validate my private life with others who do not share my way.

There is just such big differences between being ashamed of the way you live, scared about other’s reaction to how you live, just not wanting to deal with the hassle of having to explain things or wanting something so small in terms of how it impacts the friend or family member to become something big because of the wow factor. To lump these things together and throw judgment on it is not very broad minded.



MidnightMaiden -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 2:29:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
 
Just replying to you as you are the last person(but not the only) who responded mentioning being open about their 'sexual practises'.  <snip> BDSM practises may be sexual for a 'majority' (without a full on study, that's a guess) however not all BDSM is sexual activites or even sexual stimulation (there have been threads upon threads on that). 



This is likely going to be flamebait but here goes.  Remember this is my opinion only, your mileage may vary.

The BDSM way of life is an inherently sensual one.  The line between sensual and sexual can be blurred easily and I think in any lifestyle it is blurred most easily in BDSM.

Housewives in the 50's, who were every bit as subservient as subs/slaves choose to be today, would never have considered themselves to be in a BDSM relationship.  The power exchange was often the same.  My grandmother would laugh if I suggested she was in a D/s relationship.

It is the props that are used in BDSM that makes it inherently sensual/sexual.  These props are used because they enhance the senses, enhance the experience, make it enjoyable.  Whilst pro Dommes may not fuck their clients, they may not even allow them to climax in their presence, I think its a little niave to believe that these clients don't use these sessions as "inspiration" for their personal satisfaction in their sex life at some point.

If you take out the sensualism of BDSM, many people would perceive the relationship to simply be abusive.  Humiliation, verbal abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse... whilst these are a normal and healthy part of my relationship, my mother would be calling women's services for intervention.  So the only way I could make her understand would be to explain to her the sensual/sexual gratification, and just as I have no desire to hear about the details of her sex life, I am sure she has no desire to hear about my kink either.

And you take out the kink and all you are left with is a regular 1950's nilla marriage.  Who'd want to hear about that?



PantheraOnca -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 2:32:22 PM)

I play so many roles in life; teacher, mother, dominant, friend, daughter, sister, aunt, analyst that they all overlap to an extent.
I do not hide what I do, but I use discretion in my conversations and dealings with people throughout the day.
Just as I would not discuss the exact details of my employment with people outside the industry, I do not normally discuss the details of my D/s relationships outside of my D/s friends (or these forums).

And I dress the same no matter where I go (outside of maybe a wedding or a funeral) just like you and some others… and yes, my dominant personality comes through no matter where I am. 
My mother is fond of saying “Its not the way you dress, its your damn attitude” when “vanilla” people make jokes about my needing a whip to complete my outfit.

I live in a “nice place to raise a family” and I get along fine with my neighbors- I won’t flaunt my activities because by forcing them to “know” what I do, it wouldn’t be consensual.

Lady Jag (Psy) (yes, aka PsyVamp)



kyraofMists -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 2:45:01 PM)

hello dark,

This is a post of random thoughts that generated from reading your OP and some of the other posts.

First, I enjoy categorizing, labeling and defining things.  However, my "boxes" end up looking more like Venn Diagrams, not so neat or little.  This is just how I relate and make sense of the world around me.  When I find an aspect of someone that doesn't fit in the label I put on them, I think it is very cool.  I mean I get to make a new label and define something new about them, what isn't cool about that?

The label BDSM defines something sexual for me.  It may not be sexual for others, and at times it is not sexual at all for my Lord.  However, for me it is part of my sexuality.  It gets me hot.  I don't talk about sex with just anyone.  Even before pain became foreplay for me, I did not talk about sex with just anyone.  For myself, there is no desire to come out or no shame in not talking about it.  I don't often like to even talk about it with other people who also like BDSM.  It just isn't high on my list of conversation topics with people that I don't engage in sex with.

I will make an odd quip here or there.  I remember the lady who first waxed my legs, apologized when she did a particularly tender spot and my comment was "don't worry about it; pain is not all bad."  She also gets to see the cutting on my thigh, but has not made a comment on it.  At the gym, people have seen a few bruises and scratches, but they don't even look twice at them.  I just have no desire to tell most people how I get off.

As far as the M/s dynamic, I know that anyone who is close to me or spends any significant time with me knows that he is the boss.  My mom asked me one time if he had given me permission to spend money on something.  They know he is in charge.  They know that I defer to him and that I serve him.  Do they need to know that I call him my Lord or that he is Master to me?  No, not at all.  They don't need to know the details of our protocol and how we enjoy interacting with each other.  They get the big picture that he is the boss and that I am incredibly happy.

The one aspect of our relationship that is kept secret from some people is that we are poly and that I have a relationship with Alandra.  He has made the choice that for now, our families will not know and that my parents may not ever know.  When he thinks that time is right, his and Alandra's parents will find out.  He has no desire to tell mine because it would cause them pain for no good reason.  If they decide to come visit us after I move, then they will find out.  However, the likelihood of them visiting is very small because of the distance and my dad's disability. 

Like you I dislike the vanilla term because it is often used in a negative way.  I also do not segment my behaviors into vanilla and BDSM.  They are just my behaviors.  However, I do behave differently in different situations because I behave appropriately (what he considers appropriately) for whatever situation I am in.  This does not mean that I pretend to be something that I am not.  My behaviors do not define who I am.  The clothes that I wear do not define me.  My character defines who I am and that does not change from situation to situation.  My behaviors, my clothing, my manner of speech, the way I walk, and many other outward manifestations will change depending on the situation and mood that I am in.  But my character stays the same.

I'll keep my Venn Diagrams (though in mine the vanilla label is called mainstream); I'll keep the discussion of my sexual activities to a select few people or an appropriate venue, and I will keep being me.  The cover may change, but the heart and character of me will not.

Knight's Kyra




adoracat -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 2:52:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

i'm not 'out' to my UM because we don't discuss our personal lives -- our intimate lives -- on much more than a surface level, to allow us each the privacy that works best for us.  i have a hard time knowing some guy is shagging my UM even now, and would rather be spared unless she needs me for anything.  However, if and when i am collared i would probably consider telling her about the D/s nature of O/our relationship.  As of now, it's all hopes and wishes and first dates, so i see no reason to address it yet.

pinksugarsub


i am so sorry.....i am laughing fit to burst here at this.  miss satan (25) knows who and what i am and is quietly amused by it.  she and i have discussed her interest in Domme training for a while, but i think she's put that on back burner for now. 

the imp, however....  came out today with "yeah but i'm no one's SEX SLAVE mom!"  i looked at him and said "and?"

yep, he was "brain-scarred" as he put it.  and i looked him RIGHT in the eye and said "what is the NUMBER ONE rule in this house about asking questions?"  the horrified look on his face as he mumbled "never ask anything you arent absolutely sure you want an answer to" was absolutely priceless.

no, he got no more info than that.  but ya know....the um's end up knowing more than we think they do.

kitten, who still wouldnt tell the beast anything other than "this is how you have safer sex and you better be listening" even if he asked...



adoracat -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 2:54:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

thanks kitten - that is what I was 'getting' at - blergh but me and my big long words and irony huh...[;)]
 
the.dark.

 
eh, you've not ever gotten into my brain and seen the convoluted way my thoughts jump from one thing to another in the process of getting from A to B.  [:D]
 
my grown daughter is the only one who can really keep up with it...of course we converse in half-said sentences, and complete each other's thoughts all the time.
 
kitten, amused



breatheasone -> RE: .neatlittleboxes. (11/14/2007 3:01:09 PM)

BTW....Dark you totally know is was kidding about the "freaky people box".....right?.....[;)]



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