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RE: Would You Give It Out? - 11/15/2007 3:54:30 AM

BiteGirl

Posts: 293
Joined: 4/27/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

ORIGINAL: BiteGirl

Like everyone else here, I wouldn't give it either.
And like master fire man, I would tell them to get the cops to do it themselves.
Also, as someone else pointed out, not all people who commit sex crimes are cought. Just because it's not on your record, it dosn't mean you didn't do it, just as it's not on your record that you're a pro domme. nor do you want that to be known for your own reasons.

You can't run a criminal history for personal reasons. The most they could do legally is look on the public sex offender registry. Here that doesn't require a full personal address, however, there are of course people with the same names on any list usually. I would agree it's more likely a liability precaution. I wouldn't feel comfortable with it either, but I guess it would depend on the circumstances and how large the group is and how well I knew the organizers.

Well there you go, what they are doing is just plain stupid then.
And for what pinksugarsub said about if the cops took an interest they could get your details easy, that would worrie me.
Just because you are into BDSM could make you into some kind of preditor in people's eyes anyway, and risk your hubby's job.
If it were me, I'd tell them no, then walk away from it and find a better party. It's just not worth it.

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 21

RE: Would You Give It Out? - 11/15/2007 4:08:20 AM

MRandme

Posts: 661
Joined: 9/24/2007
Status: offline

i had to have background checks done before i could be employed by my school district. Those kinds of checks a) cost money and b) require a SSN. i doubt the group was actually going to run formal checks and there is no way in hell i'd give my SSN to anyone.

i don't think the reasoning they gave is valid at all. Hey, maybe they throw a great party, but i wouldn't go for it. If your instincts are telling you not to go along with their requirements, trust them. (the instincts, not the people)

g

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Post #: 22

RE: Would You Give It Out? - 11/15/2007 4:27:23 AM

canupleaseme

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Wow I certainly didnt give it any thought when I wrote out my name and address at my 1st fetish night I went to

Ive not had any come back from it though or problems and the club is well known in the area and hasnt had any bad reports so fingers crossed I'm ok . Next time I wont be so hasty lol

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Post #: 23

RE: Would You Give It Out? - 11/15/2007 5:15:52 AM

Rover

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Joined: 6/28/2004
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I routinely provide that kind of information (including license number) for the events and/or dungeons I attend. They have a legitimate legal need for that information, since the forms you're signing include:

1. A disclaimer regarding their legal liability should you choose to engage in play in which you injure yourself or others and results in a lawsuit.

2. An assurance that you are who you say you are, and are not a member of the press or a law enforcement officer who is there in a professional capacity.

3. An assurance that you will abide by the event and dungeon rules for the protection of yourself and other attendees (ie: you will not take photographs of others that might end up on the internet where someone is accidentally identified by a spouse or employer, you do not engage in play for which they do not have adequate authorization or equipment such as fire play, etc.)

In short, what you're signing is a legal contract and there needs to be some manner (short of photocopying your license) of reasonably proving to a judge and jury that the person on the list is actually the person who was in attendance.

John

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(in reply to MstrssScarlet)

Post #: 24

RE: Would You Give It Out? - 11/15/2007 7:35:30 AM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
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fake IDs are pretty cheap.

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Post #: 25

RE: Would You Give It Out? - 11/15/2007 7:44:31 AM

Dnomyar

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They need it to rob your house while your at one of the events. They may need it to have a mailing list. That way if you quit going to the events they can send you harrasing letters to attend them.

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 26

RE: Would You Give It Out? - 11/15/2007 7:52:53 AM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
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if the possible consequences are worth getting to go to the parties, then yes, i will give it...and i have...i have given out my full legal name, home address, and phone number to attend events (not parties only) that were collected through a third party website and available to the organizers of the event, the volunteers at the registration table, and just about anybody that walked up and looked through the sheets of paper that were stapled together at said table...

then again, i am 99% of the time on the bottom side of things, i don't have a job, i don't have children, and my family knows what i do....so, the consequences of being there are very few, if any...

would i give my full name and address to just anyone to go to a party that may or may not be worth my time and they now indefinately have my information for whatever purpose they see fit...probably not...

i have given my full name to the organizers of a group for legal purposes, as Rover noted...home address, is a little sticky as it is my parents address, but i have not been asked that for a non-national event, thus far...

chelle

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(in reply to MstrssScarlet)

Post #: 27

RE: Would You Give It Out? - 11/15/2007 10:06:59 AM

MstrssScarlet

Posts: 633
Joined: 6/3/2005
From: Indianapolis, Indiana
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Some of you seem to be in doubt whether this is a private party held in a home or a public event held in a public area. This is not a small private party and is not held at anyone's home.
I occassionally hold private parties in my home and the rules that have been mentioned all apply. Only close friends are invited and if they bring any guests they must notify me ahead of time, be willing to vouch for them, and be responsible for their behaviour while they're here.
Mistress Scarlet

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(in reply to chellekitty)

Post #: 28

RE: Would You Give It Out? - 11/15/2007 10:16:50 AM

MystressDream

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From: Colorado
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I know for large events like Thunder in the Mountains here in Denver, you have to put your real name and address on the registration. If it's not a large event and just a local club, that isn't the case here.

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Post #: 29

RE: Would You Give It Out? - 11/15/2007 10:18:51 AM

YourhandMyAss

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From: Sacramento
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How would they know if you didn't put a fake address, or one that's old and out of date by now?

(in reply to MystressDream)

Post #: 30

RE: Would You Give It Out? - 11/15/2007 10:41:20 AM

MystressDream

Posts: 345
Joined: 7/11/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

How would they know if you didn't put a fake address, or one that's old and out of date by now?

I find it interesting that you would come up with this. Honesty... integrity... trust.... What do those mean to you?

And... at an event that requires your address, you have to show proof like your driver's license at the registration table.

_____________________________

Knowledge and experience are wonderful things to share. When we stop asking questions, we might as well "hang it up".

check out: www.enclaveproductions.com
www.enclavewest.com

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)

Post #: 31

RE: Would You Give It Out? - 11/15/2007 10:52:09 AM

Zarius

Posts: 184
Joined: 2/9/2007
Status: offline

Greetings everyone

I would like to address this, since it is about my group.

IMAS's board hosts private play parties once a month, those are for members only, and their invited guests (1 per person) we ask for their scene name when people rsvp (these are held at private homes for the most part) and guests can be vouched for by the Member.

We have hosted three public events, that were open community play parties for the entire kink community. All three of them have been very successful. The first with 115 people, the second with 130, the third with 199.

IMAS's Membership and its board, came up with this as a measure of security for the guests attending. The reasoning behind getting legal names that match your drivers license, is to verify who you say you are when you show up at the venue. We check your name off the list, and either stamp you or put on a tyvek wristband to identify you as having been checked in.

Since we are opening up the doors to the community at large, we have no way of knowing if Master Domino the great, is really Master Domino the great, just on their say so. So, when you register, just as you do for any event, being it IML, South Plains Leather Fest, GLLA, Sinsations in Leather, Kinky Kollege etc. at each of those events you are required to provide your real name, that way they/we can match you up with your drivers license and your face. Otherwise, it can create a security risk if we let in somone who didnt actually register and pay. Our community parties are held in pubic spaces, not a private home.

There are those out there that balk at going to IML, SPLF, GLLA and other events, because of the "ID" issue. They are told the same thing that we do; If you dont provide it, you wont be allowed into the event.

IMAS only accepts paypal or pay at a munch (in person) for our open community parties. We write down your legal name, email address (if paying at a munch) and keep that list until after the party. Once that is done that list is destroyed. However we do keep the email addresses provided so that we can let them know of future parties, and for feedback questionaires.

Now to join IMAS as a paying member to be allowed to attend our monthly parties, and vote on activities that IMAS does, we do a background check against your ID for convicted sexual predators. It is in the groups opinion that it will limit those who do have a "sexual predator" history. Is it perfect, no but it is one measure that we try to provide a safe place to enjoy our activities in a persons home. IMAS does not do background checks for sexual predators for those attending our open community parties.

Is it fair? IMAS's membership, and board think it is. Does everyone like it? Probably not. Yet we do know that the person saying they are such and such is who they say they are when they come to our Community Open Parties.

The OP has attended with her other, to at least one of our open community parties, which did require the OP to provide said ID at sign up and at the door. As far as I know, the OP didnt object then about providing their legal name on their ID. I will have to get confirmation from our treasurer on this, that the OP didnt raise objections to the board on providing their real names at the earlier parties. I will look into the address issue since I dont think it should be required for attending our open parties. For membership, again we do it to check the sexual predators lists, for that we need your legal address. We dont do a criminal history check, and it was brought up by a member to do such, and the membership voted it down.

I hope this clears up some issues/confusion.
If you have any questions please feel free to write me offlist about them.

I wish you well

Zarius
President IMAS

< Message edited by Zarius -- 11/15/2007 10:56:28 AM >

(in reply to SweetDommes)

Post #: 32

RE: Would You Give It Out? - 11/15/2007 10:55:10 AM

Zarius

Posts: 184
Joined: 2/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

I routinely provide that kind of information (including license number) for the events and/or dungeons I attend. They have a legitimate legal need for that information, since the forms you're signing include:

1. A disclaimer regarding their legal liability should you choose to engage in play in which you injure yourself or others and results in a lawsuit.

2. An assurance that you are who you say you are, and are not a member of the press or a law enforcement officer who is there in a professional capacity.

3. An assurance that you will abide by the event and dungeon rules for the protection of yourself and other attendees (ie: you will not take photographs of others that might end up on the internet where someone is accidentally identified by a spouse or employer, you do not engage in play for which they do not have adequate authorization or equipment such as fire play, etc.)

In short, what you're signing is a legal contract and there needs to be some manner (short of photocopying your license) of reasonably proving to a judge and jury that the person on the list is actually the person who was in attendance.

John

Rover,

Those are also the reasons we require an ID as well, and each attendee does sign a waiver of liablity, and agreement to follow Dungeon rules, as well as waiver that they arent LE or Newsies.

Thank you

Zarius

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 33

RE: Would You Give It Out? - 11/15/2007 11:04:14 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssScarlet

There's another conversation going on that made me finally post this. I started to before, but didn't want to upset anyone.
Here's the deal:
There's a local BDSM group that holds parties about once a month. They have a great venue and so far have been very successful. I hope that continues. The first time I asked to go to one of their parties, I was told that they would need my full legal name and address, as well as anyone's who was accompanying me. I balked and finally talked them into taking our legal names only that had to match our driver's licences. I've been to LOTS of events and normally I am only required to give my legal name and then pay through paypal. As far as I know, paypal has only told them whether or not I paid. Now that I want to go again, they are insisting that I follow all the rules. I have been around long enough to see groups break up and lists fall into the wrong hands. My husband has a morality clause in his contract where he works. Am I being paranoid or would you be willing to give the information they're asking for? I did hear a claim from one of the leaders that they use this information to be sure I'm not a sexual predator. Well, they've seen me at more than one function and we are quite familiar with each other. Besides, do you really need a full address to run a background check? A LOT of people have turned this information over to them in order to become members, but I'm just not willing to. As a sidenote: I'm a pro domme (which they know). I've always felt that if I get myselft into a sticky situation, I'm liable to pull my clients in with me. Your thoughts?
Mistress Scarlet

The group we attend monthly may have asked for our addresses, I can't remember but I kinda want to say they did. Could also be wrong. They did ask for our legal names and IDs.

If they had/did, we certainly would have or did give it to them. The group meets in private houses where we will know their addresses and how to get to their houses. If I am uncomfortable with them knowing my address and how to get to my place, I really don't think I have any business knowing what their address is. However, if it was not being held in homes where I would have other people's addresses simply by attending I probably wouldn't give out my own.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 11/15/2007 11:05:01 AM >

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(in reply to MstrssScarlet)

Post #: 34

RE: Would You Give It Out? - 11/15/2007 11:15:53 AM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
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I wouldn't give out a fake adress, My question was more about how does providing your home address allow these people to proove you're not some kind of predator.

but lets say someone did. Just cause I wouldn't, doesn't mean that I don't know there's deceptive people in the word. LEts say you kept your old liscence that had your old address? How would any know any diffrent? these people say they have to have this info to proove you're not dangerous, how is having your home address going to proove someone is not dangerous? How would they know that the liscence with 7723 Rio Drive was current or not?

Now true most people won't bother with such a deception, however the ones that would.

When I turned 22, if I remember right the age, I had to apply for a new ID, They didn't ask for the old one back or nothing, and I kept it for a keepsake, getting my CA Id was a huge milestone for me personally. I am 25 now, however you'd never know the old ID was an old id, if you didn't know me or the real age I am.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MystressDream

quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

How would they know if you didn't put a fake address, or one that's old and out of date by now?

I find it interesting that you would come up with this. Honesty... integrity... trust.... What do those mean to you?

And... at an event that requires your address, you have to show proof like your driver's license at the registration table.

< Message edited by YourhandMyAss -- 11/15/2007 11:18:25 AM >

(in reply to MystressDream)

Post #: 35

RE: Would You Give It Out? - 11/15/2007 11:17:12 AM

Rover

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Joined: 6/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

How would they know if you didn't put a fake address, or one that's old and out of date by now?

Because when you arrive at the event you're required to present photo identification (ie: a valid driver's license) in order to check in, get your badge, etc.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)

Post #: 36

RE: Would You Give It Out? - 11/15/2007 11:22:42 AM

bipolarber

Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
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Just ignoring the "predator" angle (which I think is a lot of crap) a good reason for asking this information is to be able to tell the cops who you are, and where you live (basic contact info) in case of a medical emergency, or if there were some kind of investigation going on that they might need to contact you about. (i.e. if one of the other party goers were to become a missing person's case, for example.) Asking for a name, birthdate, address or even a phone number is NOT too much to ask... (also to check the info you've given them against a photo ID) I would balk, however, at telling them where I work, and/or them asking for a SSN.

(in reply to SweetDommes)

Post #: 37

RE: Would You Give It Out? - 11/15/2007 11:26:43 AM

Zarius

Posts: 184
Joined: 2/9/2007
Status: offline

bipolarber

I agree, we do NOT ask for where you work, or your SSN. Your points about medical and missing persons are also very valid points.

I wish you well

Zarius

(in reply to bipolarber)

Post #: 38

RE: Would You Give It Out? - 11/15/2007 11:43:00 AM

Argentopal

Posts: 379
Joined: 12/12/2005
From: Central Texas / Hill Country
Status: offline

Good Afternoon,
Each group has to determine it's own guidelines and then each of us has to determine our "hard limits" as to how much information we will provide to attend their events.

We have joined groups as members which required us to show our DL when asking for a membership card but did not record any information about us. They looked at the photo to establish it was "me" and the DOB to establish I was over 18. We have joined groups who required nothing at all in the way of an ID to "join" and if someone appeared to be underage the group leaders might ask to look at an id or to have 2 or more trusted group members vouch for the new person. We established a very small SIG about 10 years ago now and we do NOT require any sort of ID check to join. But we also do not advertise or have a webpage and membership is by invitation and has some very strict guidelines and we do ask you to verify that you are over 18. We also have no qualms about going to a member and just asking them if we feel something is not quite right.

We will not attend a local group that does require you provide photo ID which they copy and keep "in their files" which were for a time supposedly kept "in a locked safe in a trusted members home" - until, guess what, that trusted member pissed someone off and was kicked out and then refused to give them several months (years) worth of records, party lists, member lists, waivers, and whatnot. They 'said' they had destroyed all the records because they got mad at the group, but no one could verify that.

As for a photo ID proving someone is NOT a law enforcement officer, member of the press, court officer, etc - how in the world can you even suppose that is true? I know personally more than one person who is a law enforcement officer, court officer, oh AND members of the press who have shown a legal ID and have been accepted as group members. A member of law enforcement is never technically "off duty" and is required to enforce the law at all times. How does showing their ID protect group members?

There are things group leaders may feel they need to do to "protect" their members. For me, I would rather demonstrate my own personal ability to make decisions and take personal responsibility than to depend on the group leaders or other members to do so. When I relinquish my personal responsibility to someone else I allow their values to become mine and then when something does go wrong I can blame them and claim their failure is the cause of my discomfort, instead of stepping up and taking the responsibility myself. It all about personal chioces and decisions we each make. We have to justify those choices to ourselves and possibly our SO and guests we may take to events and live with any possible repercussions, be they the fact we go to less events or we risk exposure when the trusted group member becomes really disgruntled and tries to expose the group.

opal

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... and i did.

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(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 39

RE: Would You Give It Out? - 11/15/2007 11:44:44 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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Ultimately if you don't want to play by the rules at party or in an organization, you shouldn't be going to that event or group.

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(in reply to MstrssScarlet)

Post #: 40

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