quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

Sorry, but I disagree. For myself; I don't want to be of equal status or value, and I would not be happy with a person who saw me as such. It works for others; and that's fine for them; but, no thank you, not for me

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cyntilating

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

Sorry, but I disagree. For myself; I don't want to be of equal status or value, and I would not be happy with a person who saw me as such. It works for others; and that's fine for them; but, no thank you, not for me

Irish
If I don't value myself(first), how can I hope or expect to find someone that will see me as valuable and treat me as such???
 
  I understand ( or at least can comprehend) your statement regard status ( role).... but value??
you do not want to be with someone who can see you are/as valuable ? important? 
   or am I misunderstanding your meaning?
 

 

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cyntilating

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

Sorry, but I disagree. For myself; I don't want to be of equal status or value, and I would not be happy with a person who saw me as such. It works for others; and that's fine for them; but, no thank you, not for me

Irish
If I don't value myself(first), how can I hope or expect to find someone that will see me as valuable and treat me as such???
 
  I understand ( or at least can comprehend) your statement regard status ( role).... but value??
you do not want to be with someone who can see you are/as valuable ? important? 
   or am I misunderstanding your meaning?
 

 

/sigh

EQUAL VALUE

I have no interest in someone who would see me as EQUAL VALUE.... no.

quote:

not trying to change your mind..what works for you and yours, works : )    I am just trying to understand ..
 
thanks for replying tho'

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

first, i am not equal to all people, i am not even equal to all people i have been in relationships with in the past, what follows about equallity, is something i what i strive for in my future relationship(s)...and for brevity, this is all non-physical...

when i talk about equallity between a Dominant and a submissive, i am talking about innate equallity, the things you have whether you want them or not...they are things you can nourish or starve, but they are there...energy, power (not to be confused with authority), self control, and i am sure there are some other things that fall into this catagory...

things that are unequal, are unequal between all human beings...there is no way for them to be exactly the same between any two human beings, not even twins...things like skills - cooking, cleaning, banjo playing, weaving, etc, intelligence, wisdom (and those are two completely different things)...skills you can learn with practice...other things you have to have an inate ability for...some skills you can rise above the rest with an inate ability...

i have a vocal range that extends 1 line above the trebel clef (used to be higher [a C above, 1 line is just an A], damned smoking, maybe i could change that by quitting) and i don't know how far below the bass clef, i have never reached my lowest note while someone was keeping track...it was never necessary, they don't write vocal music that low....does that make me a better person that anyone else? no, it makes me different...

that covered the things you mentioned....we are also unequal in our emotions, in our coping skills, in our personalities, amongst other things...things that are developed through a bit of nature and a whole lot of nurture (learned through life experience)...and in our personalities, i believe, at least within the D/s or M/s lifestyle we have recognized it, we have a need to relenquish authority and a need to take authority or both (depending on your orientation)...that thing that was not to be confused with power....

now, let me go back to my original statement...well, let me rearrange and reword the whole paragraph.... [original statment was in post #19 http://www.collarchat.com/m_1409424/mpage_1/tm.htm ]

for a D/s relationship to be healthy, i believe the Dominant and submissive must be equal, they are inherently different in those things learned, but they must be equal in those things that are innate...after all what good is a Power Exchange if there is nothing (or not enough) to be exchanged?

chelle

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ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

They have to be of equal status or the relationship would not work. Who determines your value. Would it not be the Master and Slave who determines each others value or worth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cyntilating

MasterFireMaam,
{The Master and slave are of equal value. The Master and slave are not of equal status.

Blam! That just makes so much sense to me. I thought I'd share...'cause ya know...enlightenment and all that. *chuckle* }

makes sense to me too!  thanks for sharing that.  I just love lightbulb moments : )
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Padriag,
Equal...
There are alot of human-beings who give reason to doubt that all are equal and deserve equality, because their actions make them unworthy of that right.
That doesn't mean the ideology doesn't or shouldn't exist.

I can think you are equal to me in value, but that doesn't mean you will act that way nor beleive it yourself.

And I cannot make you treat others equally, but that doesn't keep me from treating others rights and feelings as valued....and as equal in importance as mine. 

Equality is like Happiness:
Happiness is felt and a chosen emotion.
There are people who think they can make another feel happy (equal)...or do something to make another unhappy (unequal)..
but its the decision of the person whether they feel happiness (equal)or not.
Equality can replace the word happy in the above.
People, laws, ignorance, intolerance, jealousy try to create inequality all the time.  Sometimes they/it succeeds..
But, walls of inequality are torn down all the time.  
Just as people who are in unbeleivably awful circumstances STILL feel happy and happiness.


as MasterFire said.....status seems to be the excepted difference....at least in this lifestyle we embrace the difference in roles and accept the dynamic as a positive and affirming thing.
Status can also be used against us..and lead to ignorance and intolerance....In the wrong hands or wrong mind-set.
  That does not mean the equality wasn't there to begin with as , imho, intended and rightfully so.

You are in a hospital and walk up, blindfolded, to the window of a newborn nursery window.  You are told there are 12 babies all lined up in a row..You listen to them, some are crying softly others are asleep....all bundled up snug. 
You cannot see:
pink or blue blankets
name tags possibly indicating gender and last name origin/nationality
hair color....skin color... height...weight...sex

            .........You stand there and in that moment > every baby there, for all you know, has equal potential in life.  They are completely helpless and innocent.  But their entire life is still to be written and lived to the fullest potential......right???  isnt that their right?? each one deserving to be as valuable and as accepted (loved) as the one in the bassinette next to them....and each given as many opportunities to succeed and be happy and fulfilled.

That, as I see it is equality and is where equality begins.

None of those other babies have any conception of jealousy or hatred or status of the other ones.  They just know they all want to be held and fed...to feel secure..

It is when the blindfold is removed, that things change.
Some of those babies, because of what you SEE, will be categorized and given status and more opportunity instantaneously upon seeing a physical difference...
name sake...size...etc.
that is where inequality begins.

re: equality as Ms Ds roles
Equally vital to the relationship, bringing something different to it, yes, but just as vital to its thriving or failure.
One can say the submissives/slaves role is more vital
                   Or   the Master/Mistresses roles is more vital,
but, bottom line > without both bring ALL they can and feeling the other person is most valuable and valued>> the relationship doesn't thrive, so it doesn't matter who was right or who was deemed more valuable .  Difference, but equally as important.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

Remember the usual argument about whether or not the slave is equal to the Master? Some say, "No, that's not true, by the very definition of the relationship," while other say (ok, I say), "We're equal adults living in a healthy relationship with a defined structure and transfer of authority." The two were finally put together by someone in my local MAsT group:

The Master and slave are of equal value. The Master and slave are not of equal status.

Blam! That just makes so much sense to me. I thought I'd share...'cause ya know...enlightenment and all that. *chuckle*

Master Fire

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ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Well, people, value is not inherent.  Value is defined by what people will pay for something.  Gold nuggets were a lot more valuable to Spanish conquistadores than they were to the natives who were awash in them.

If you're looking for a quality that's inherent, "value" isn't your word.