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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/19/2007 2:19:22 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Meat, like I said, a reasonable argument can be made that Bush made the wrong choices.  However to say that no one considered Saddam a  threat is simply nonsence, multiple UNSECCON resolutions is proof of it.



There are mulitple UN resolutions against Israel though none sanctioning military intervention, the same as there were no resolutions sanctioning military intervention against Iraq, though the Bush administration are about the only government in the world disputing that. So why hasn't the US invaded Israel as well? Ther fact is we know, one is an allie, the other isn't. One is the only reliable friend the US has in the region rich in oil, the other wasn't a friend and has oil.

Considering someone a threat and being an actual threat are two different things and is often one of convenience. No one can give a reason as to why Iraq was more of a threat than many other countries, which again leads back to the suspicion they had oil and other countries with a similar profile didn't.

Come on! Tell me how Iraq was a threat to the US, I don't mean how it was a threat to the commercial interests of Bush's buddies but how it was a threat to the guy on the New York sidewalk.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 11/19/2007 2:30:09 AM >

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/19/2007 2:38:12 AM   
luckydog1


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Status: offline 		No one can give a reason as to why Iraq was more of a threat than many other countries, which again leads back to the suspicion they had oil and other countries with a similar profile didn't.


Ok I'll play.... name a country....

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/19/2007 2:54:49 AM   
meatcleaver


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Status: offline 		Any country with significant oil resources is a threat to the US. There is no country in the world that is a direct threat to the US. The US decides who's a threat depending on the economic interests of corporate America and not on the security of US state or its citizens.

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/19/2007 3:17:39 AM   
luckydog1


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Status: offline 		So you can't name a single one to back up your assertion.....

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/19/2007 4:20:09 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

So you can't name a single one to back up your assertion.....


Pakistan, Russia , China, Japan, Brazil, Argentina, just about the whole world. Iraq was no danger to anyone other than its own people. Even Bush senior said Iraq was no more than an irritation. How the fuck was conscripted, disgruntled barrow boys with obsolete weapons going to threaten the US? The US wanted Iraqi oil, they are in the process of getting it and Bush's buddies are making millions. The Iraqi people have been well and truely fucked by Bush and cronies and not only them, the US tax payer has as well. As for those that think the war in Iraq was right (those other than making big bucks), there is no answer to retarded reasoning.

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/19/2007 4:39:58 AM   
Sanity


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Status: offline 		The United States isn't getting Iraqi oil, meat, that's a lie.

But here we've come full circle, to the point FHK was making in the OP. Anyone who doesn't agree with your side of the argument has retarded reasoning. You feel justified making things up (Bush cronies are getting rich off of liberating the people of Iraq / Iraqis hate being free / America is stealing Iraq's oil) to get to your hatred and then further, you dehumanize your opponents (by labeling them retarded in this case) in order to maintain your false feelings of superiority.

And since you feel you're superior, and that your political opponents aren't quite human, anything goes. Right?

No need to put it to a vote, no need to compromise with them, it's useless trying to reason... just smash their heads and take the damn power. Isn't that how you feel?


< Message edited by Sanity -- 11/19/2007 5:10:13 AM >

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/19/2007 5:16:04 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		http://www.fpif.org/cgaa/talkingpoints/0209oil.html
http://www.rense.com/general10/reveal.htm
http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~pdscott/iraq.html
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0915-04.htm

More than coincedence is at work here. 

Ron

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/19/2007 5:57:12 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

The United States isn't getting Iraqi oil, meat, that's a lie.

But here we've come full circle, to the point FHK was making in the OP. Anyone who doesn't agree with your side of the argument has retarded reasoning. You feel justified making things up (Bush cronies are getting rich off of liberating the people of Iraq / Iraqis hate being free / America is stealing Iraq's oil) to get to your hatred and then further, you dehumanize your opponents (by labeling them retarded in this case) in order to maintain your false feelings of superiority.

And since you feel you're superior, and that your political opponents aren't quite human, anything goes. Right?

No need to put it to a vote, no need to compromise with them, it's useless trying to reason... just smash their heads and take the damn power. Isn't that how you feel?



Let's get this clear, Iraq is not free, it is in a state of chaos due to the US trying to impose its vision on the country. I am sure the Iraqis would love to be free but the US has not freed them. 2 million in exile and another 1 million displaced and who knows how many dead is not freedom. US government policy is to pressure the Iraqi government into privatizing the oil industry and the US oil companies are in line to get the lucrative contracts.(Maybe US media doesn't report this) but there have been many members of the Iraqi parliament on TV over here angry with US pressure and questioning US motives.

I didn't say my opponents were retarded, I said their thinking was retarded. We can argue about the English language if you want. How people can ignore the evidence of what has taken place, the lack of evidence supporting Bush's view and the number of people associated with Bush that have made big bucks is beyond me.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 11/19/2007 5:58:25 AM >

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/19/2007 6:03:29 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

http://www.fpif.org/cgaa/talkingpoints/0209oil.html
http://www.rense.com/general10/reveal.htm
http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~pdscott/iraq.html
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0915-04.htm

More than coincedence is at work here. 

Ron


Ron, the supporters of the war want to be blind and illiterate but why, who knows? You would think all Americans would be angry with Bush, the way he has put dollars into his cronies pockets and been maverick with the economy and ignored the real threat to the US, a economically vigorous China. Bush should have been concentrating on making the US economy competitive for future security not going around the world on military jollies.

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/19/2007 6:04:04 AM   
samboct


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Status: offline 		Umm- Meatcleaver?  One small correction- given the numbers thrown around in the Iraq war- I suspect Bush's buddies are in the billions- not millions category.

LuckyDog- you asked me to quote Bush directly- I did, and pointed out the flaws in his pretext for invasion.  You now claim my post is too long to read.

You disagree with my conclusion- that Bush is worthy of being despised or hated because he has made a power grab for our freedoms- but you ignore the facts that lead to that conclusion.

Seems to me you're being pretty selective with what you read and believe.  Is this a requirement for all people supporting Bush at this point?

Sam

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/19/2007 6:08:39 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Ron, the supporters of the war want to be blind and illiterate but why, who knows? You would think all Americans would be angry with Bush, the way he has put dollars into his cronies pockets and been maverick with the economy and ignored the real threat to the US, a economically vigorous China. Bush should have been concentrating on making the US economy competitive for future security not going around the world on military jollies.


It was obvious to anyone of right reason,  that the Bush Administration was of limited horizons from the outset, I am desperately trying to find any sort of positive influence that could be accredited to his presidency, but am unable to do so. 


Ron 

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/19/2007 7:50:04 AM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

No one can give a reason as to why Iraq was more of a threat than many other countries, which again leads back to the suspicion they had oil and other countries with a similar profile didn't.


Ok I'll play.... name a country....


Remember how Bush needed to appease Bin Laden ( and Bin Laden's Saudi financiers, planners, and controllers ) , and get the US Troops out of Saudi Arabia?

Guess where they went.

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ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/19/2007 10:21:19 AM   
luckydog1


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Status: offline 		Meat.   Pakistan, Russia , China, Japan, Brazil, Argentina....not a single one of these had a dictator for over 20 years who invaded 2 of his neighbors.  None of these nations ever used chemical weopons on civilians.  None of these nations were singled out by the world and put under a set of restrictions regarding WMD's and violated the restrictions.  Thanks for playing...

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/19/2007 10:26:07 AM   
luckydog1


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Status: offline 		No samboct, you are trying to miststate one of the reasons and ignore the rest.  as I have said numerous times, and you refuse to accpet, BUSH WROTE THE REASONS DOWN AND SENT THEM TO CONGRESS.  Those are the reasons.  They are different that Liberals like you want to pretend.  I guess I have to accept that you will refuse to look, and will keep trying to change the subject.

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/19/2007 10:28:31 AM   
luckydog1


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Status: offline 		Mnot, it indeed does seem to be more than a coincidence that you rely on left wing editorial sites for your information....

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/19/2007 10:32:06 AM   
luckydog1


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Status: offline 		Meat says,
"Let's get this clear, Iraq is not free,"

If you do not remember, you can go back and look up what Meat says Freedom is.  He has chimed in on several threads about it.  Basically freedom  has nothing to do with being free to make choices, but is a state of thinking the right things as defined by him.  So yes, Iraq is not free per Meats definition.  Nor would I want it to be.

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/19/2007 10:33:51 AM   
luckydog1


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Status: offline 		And Meat, I take it you are refusing to answer my direct question as to how many Iraqis were killed by the Sanctions and Bombings before Bush got in?

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/19/2007 10:38:53 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Show me neo-con sites that enumerates the veracity, or lack thereof; of these claims. I will peruse them.

Now regarding the fact that Bushes entire administration cannot claim one good thing that will affect the now and future of america, his stated campaign promises that social security would be reformed as well as immigration reform didn't happen, that is my opinion, and you are welcome to point out those bits of lofty exercise that should be so apparent to me.

Ron   

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/19/2007 10:40:14 AM   
farglebargle


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quote:

BUSH WROTE THE REASONS DOWN AND SENT THEM TO CONGRESS. Those are the reasons.


Yes, and he committed fraud in doing so. He should have written down the caveats pertaining to those reasons, too.

*KNOWING* your data is potentially unreliable, but not disclosing that is dishonest.

e.g.: Consider the December 9, 2001 appearance by CHENEY on NBC's Meet the Press. He stated that "it was pretty well confirmed" that lead 9/11 hijacker Mohamed Atta had met the head of Iraqi intelligence in Prague in April 2001,

Now, that was based on a single witness's uncorroborated allegation, which hadn't been fully investigated.

So, did he misstate the status of the intel data on purpose, or was it just incompetence?



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 11/19/2007 10:44:34 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/19/2007 10:40:56 AM   
luckydog1


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Status: offline 		What redherring is it exactly that you want to change the discussion to mnot?

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