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RE: On Tolerance and Understanding - 11/18/2007 2:03:00 AM   
laurell3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I guess Erin's not up for the kumbaya group hug either.


I think I'm actually going to have to put that on my hard limit list...lol.


RED


lol

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RE: On Tolerance and Understanding - 11/18/2007 6:28:55 AM   
MidMichCowboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
I, for one, do not wish to give everyone a warm and welcoming embrace. There are some who want to use the umbrella that this lifestyle provides...and some of them practice some shit that is just very wrong on all counts in my opinion. Now they may not see it the same way but the beauty is that nowhere in this lifestyle does it say that I have to be tolerant and accepting of all...nowhere does it say that I have to forfeit the right to make my own judgments...so, if you want to hug and welcome that pedophile, that predator or that abuser....by all means do so. I will, thankfully, retain my right to make my own judgment and choose who and what I am willing to be tolerant of.


I agree with Erin. There are things that I don't want to approve of. While I am very tolerant of those in different types of lifestyles, giving open blanket approval it not what I am about. I don't like those who use this lifestyle dishonestly. Those who approach people to "get laid". There are a lot of men who have figured out that there are some subs who will let themselves be taken advantage of. Those into kids should be shot and hung by their privates. I won't tolerate that. Those who use the lifestyle to hide from the real world, again I don't approve. I have major problems with people who charge. I understand this upsets many people, and I don't dispute their right to do so, but I find it distastefully.

Erin is right, as much as I've spoken about accepting some differences, it will not be a blanket approval.

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(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: On Tolerance and Understanding - 11/18/2007 7:21:22 AM   
LATEXBABY64


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The thing of it is we all judge in some form of another we are human get over it life will go on.  do not let the drive by posters run your ideas or concepts or way of life. Just Take everything With a Grain of Salt and go ok what ever

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: On Tolerance and Understanding - 11/18/2007 7:27:15 AM   
susie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

The thing of it is we all judge in some form of another we are human get over it life will go on.  do not let the drive by posters run your ideas or concepts or way of life. Just Take everything With a Grain of Salt and go ok what ever


I am intriguied to know what exactly you mean by "drive by posters". Perhaps you can explain.

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
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RE: On Tolerance and Understanding - 11/18/2007 10:34:19 AM   
LATEXBABY64


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    Oh that is easy. anyone that has a concept that fallows fashion naziism. Or quick Patches to  long term problems. Remeber rome was not built in a day Nor are most peoples lves. gota love the instacarnation subs ,domsm, dommes  just add water 

  What you have to understand!  people who have been in this lifestyle long before the interent was a popular item and back when it was underground . We tend to Understand tons of the dynamics of things. Because of life experince that is something that no textbook or poster or icon or what ever can show you. We all grow at different paces and at different times. But if your after self discovery you will never find it fallowing a heard or imatating someone elses dreams..

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RE: On Tolerance and Understanding - 11/18/2007 10:50:13 AM   
susie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

   Oh that is easy. anyone that has a concept that fallows fashion naziism. Or quick Patches to  long term problems. Remeber rome was not built in a day Nor are most peoples lves. gota love the instacarnation subs ,domsm, dommes  just add water 

What you have to understand!  people who have been in this lifestyle long before the interent was a popular item and back when it was underground . We tend to Understand tons of the dynamics of things. Because of life experince that is something that no textbook or poster or icon or what ever can show you. We all grow at different paces and at different times. But if your after self discovery you will never find it fallowing a heard or imatating someone elses dreams..



So you think because I have only been in the lifestyle for a few years I know nothing about relationships or this lifestyle? How very condesceding of you. There are many people on this site that may well be new to the bdsm lifestyle but they are not new to life or relationships. My experience has come from real life, not text books and not posts on any fora. It has come from living the life, real life. I do not follow (the word is follow not fallow, fallow is a colour) anyones dreams I have no need to. I have a life and dreams of my own.


(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
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RE: On Tolerance and Understanding - 11/18/2007 11:23:42 AM   
LATEXBABY64


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um ok lol i think you missed the point but what ever  i keep forgetting about the reply thingy

(in reply to susie)
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RE: On Tolerance and Understanding - 11/18/2007 11:26:17 AM   
susie


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I did not miss the point. I asked you a question to which you replied. Are you now saying that your post was not in response to my direct question to you?

Please explain what you mean by "drive by posters"

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
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RE: On Tolerance and Understanding - 11/18/2007 12:05:25 PM   
domiguy


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You people make me sick....For I love everybody.

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RE: On Tolerance and Understanding - 11/18/2007 2:09:37 PM   
stella41b


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quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

  Oh that is easy. anyone that has a concept that fallows fashion naziism. Or quick Patches to  long term problems. Remeber rome was not built in a day Nor are most peoples lves. gota love the instacarnation subs ,domsm, dommes  just add water 

What you have to understand!  people who have been in this lifestyle long before the interent was a popular item and back when it was underground . We tend to Understand tons of the dynamics of things. Because of life experince that is something that no textbook or poster or icon or what ever can show you. We all grow at different paces and at different times. But if your after self discovery you will never find it fallowing a heard or imatating someone elses dreams..



So you think because I have only been in the lifestyle for a few years I know nothing about relationships or this lifestyle? How very condesceding of you. There are many people on this site that may well be new to the bdsm lifestyle but they are not new to life or relationships. My experience has come from real life, not text books and not posts on any fora. It has come from living the life, real life. I do not follow (the word is follow not fallow, fallow is a colour) anyones dreams I have no need to. I have a life and dreams of my own.




Experience in BDSM doesn't really count for much. It's just another myth that a lot of people believe in, just like a lot of people believe there must be something wrong with someone who's on welfare.

The problem with this community is that there's too many theorists who sometimes when they get the opportunity to put one of their theories into practice they suddenly get cold feet and vanish.

It never ceases to amaze me how some people go on about BDSM like it's quantum physics or applied mathematics and you get all these silly little cliques and snobbery from the 'more experienced'. Only in Poland, where everything has to come from a book and knowledge has to be represented on a certificate you now have The Higher School of BDSM and The Higher Academy of Masochists and Slaves, and what's more, you get hundreds of loonies and nutcases trying to bribe their way in and pay the exorbitant fees to study BDSM for three or five years.

Imagine, you're going for a job interview and you're asked what your degree is in, and you reply 'foot worship' or better still, 'ass play'.

'Dear Sirs... I'm writing to enquire as to whether you would have any vacancies for CBT experts ....I am qualified in both SSC and RACK...'

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(in reply to susie)
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RE: On Tolerance and Understanding - 11/18/2007 7:33:33 PM   
LATEXBABY64


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I am saying take it with a grain of salt it was pointed at many things

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RE: On Tolerance and Understanding - 11/18/2007 8:36:17 PM   
astarri


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fast reply ~

why we have to belittle kumbaya?? its a lovely little ditty!! though now it IS on my mind and wont get out!!

as for the OP~ there will always be welcoming people and blunt people and people who really dont care either way. I am a combination of all. If someone freaks me out im not going to give them a hug. And some people cause the hair on the back of my neck to stick up.
I live in a small town .... i don't run out and welcome everyone on when they come. Why would here be any different?

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
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RE: On Tolerance and Understanding - 11/18/2007 9:37:10 PM   
Kana


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i have been a member of this "Lifestyle" for over a decade now and i have learned so much from people in all the different facets of it.  There is one thing though that never ceases to amaze me.  We, as in "Lifestylers", face so much opposition from those who do not understand the lives we lead.  And, i know at least for myself, that i have spent countless hours talking to people about my life choices in an effort to bring some understanding.   I don’t attempt to get anyone to understand my choices, never have, most likely never will. What I do with me and mine behind closed doors is none of anyone’s business as long as it’s between consensual adults. There are some rash assumptions stated in this missive, this is one of them.    We also all have felt that feeling of being looked at differently, ostracized, or ridiculed for who we are.  We all know how much it hurts and how terribly frustrating it can be to feel like no one else knows or identifies with you.    Nope, never felt that way because of BDSM at all. I never cared much if people identified with me or not. Frankly I enjoy looking in from the outside more often than I am a joiner.
We talk so much about finding BDSM and feeling like we are finally home and being finally at peace knowing we are not alone in this big scary world.   I never talked at all about finding BDSM. It’s something I do, part of who I am, just like I am white and Irish. Finding some kinky people either live or on the net never made me feel at home either. Home feels like home, surrounded by the things I love, with the people I care about, that’s home.  
So then i have to ask, where do we (some not all of us) get off doing the same thing to others who have found there home here?  What right do we have to say others are wrong, gross, unacceptable, etc. when we meet someone who has a different kink than we do?   Why shouldn’t I judge? I am an intelligent man with a highly developed sense of morals hammered out on the anvil of hard and often bitter experience. Talk to the people whose daughters were victims of men like Ted Bundy. He sure had a different kink. I have the right to say I feel something is reprehensible and the responsibility to say it if I feel safety is potentially being endangered. Don’t lay your morality on me.  
If we want there to be a change in the world were EVERYONE is accepted and embraced for who they are then we need to BE the change we want to see in the world.  How can we demand to be heard and seek out acceptance if we cannot provide that to our peers? How can we stand tall and proud if from within we are squabbling and tearing one another down?   Ah, to be 25, let me be very honest.  I don’t want to see a world where everyone is accepted regardless of his or her particular activity or belief. I don’t have any desire to live in a homogenous world of cultural relativity. I don’t even want to change the world Hell, my shoulders aren’t broad enough, and when would I get time for a lunch break. And who is this “we” anyways. Don’t include me in anything without my permission first. Why should I depend on anything external to allow me to stand tall and proud. That’s an internal thing and nothing can take that fro me. I have to give that away and its not going to happen.  
It is time for a change.  We need to challenge ourselves to be tolerant of everyones life choices, to present ourselves as a united front to the "vanilla" world.  In a world that embraces streamlining, mainstreaming, and intolerance as virtues, we need to lead by example and be the change we want to see in the world.  We scoff at the sissy boys, cringe when watersports or scat is mentioned, say someone isn't a Top or a bottom just because they do it differently than we do.    Again who is this we, I don’t. Just because I might not agree with someone’s kink, that gives me no right to scoff.     This is just hypocritical and destructive.  Why? For me to evaluate what I find acceptable and what I do not, why is that wrong? I am an anarchist, a revolutionary and a rebel. I believe in freethinking and chronic self-evaluation. In a society that increasingly emphasizes conformity I am an anachronism. I don’t need to be tolerant of anything I don’t choose to.
So, then, i issue a challenge to each and every one of us.  Search out someone who doesn't share your particular kink and learn about it.  Talk to one another.  Through communication comes understanding and through that, tolerance and eventually unity.  That is my challenge to us all.  Be the change.  Challenge yourself to grow and gain knowledge and understanding and by doing so we can change the world for the better one person at a time.   The ideal is nice, and the ending is the one thing I concur with. I cannot change anything, but I can change me. Gandhi said be the change that you seek, so my thoughts are get off the soapbox and do. Just don’t tell me how or what to do.  

(in reply to astarri)
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RE: On Tolerance and Understanding - 11/18/2007 11:27:44 PM   
LadyHugs


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Dear Daddysnikayla, Kana, Ladies and Gentlemen,
 
I cannot at much more to better what Kana had to say and said in terms that needed to be used and though not 'politically correct' for the more modern of BDSM and or Lifestyle and or Life Choice--or perhaps the "Internet" age; it still is a situation where community only defines where a group of people call home, define the propertys and its assets. It can only be done in general terms though--no familes come from the same cookie-cutter.  Neither do people living their lives in a particular style and tastes.
 
I tire of having to take a position when people who visit Europe for a short while attempt to express their expertise` based on some title or presentation.  I lived in Europe in my youth and teens and lucky to be in countries that had relatives and some were well to do and learned from them as well as from their staff.  These relatives still in Europe and some even as kinky as I am.
Because I am an American people seem to give license to taking pot shots and individuals like me, overseas and assigned through military assignments and the like--to be suddenly fake and frauds.  I consider myself European trained in many regards.  What advantages I had not many others did but--this is my life and how I was educated and experienced what I did into my adulthood.  To include my whip work and caning.  Those who have to take pot-shots I consider full of sour grapes.  So many of the ones taking shots have never met me, seen me at work and or entertain.
 
It is unfortunate, that there must be a constant aire of 'competition' to out posture and out shine.  I often share but a thimble full of my life's lessons and or choices--its my right to share as much as to withhold what I earned first hand--not reading someone else's and or some written imaginary assumption of what the Lifestyle is.  Lifestyle is a 'style' and it is a 'personal' tastes and it is a display, function and or application of that 'style' as well as making choices as a individual in their home and or castle (regardless how small or grand it may be). 
 
I personally do not need some fancy sash title, the limelight or drama and or clubs and or BDSM support and education groups to dictate how to live my life.  Most didn't exist when I was going through my growth/journey.  Leather pieces had to be made custom--they weren't on the rack like today and those who stand and model in them and or pick a pretty whip that are in all kinds of colors and fancy appointments and or furniture. 
 
As far as I know--I do have tolerance and understanding in many things.  I find myself patient with the most horrible treatment by others--such behavior that is mean, cruel and filled with prejudices, hate, envy, jealousy and negative and or criminal intent would have never been tolerated in real time but, I am seeing in the last 15 years such behavior is becoming more common than being able to disagree without becoming disagreeable and taking cheap shots and or cowardly stands. 
 
The 'community' is like Swiss Cheese--a lot of holes in it.  Community is too broadly stretched and has become that quote of being an umbrella for anything that is alternative and or fetish.  The good people and good souls are often drowned by the cheap, catty and put downs because they lack anything else to work with, they whine, complain, disrespect the etiquettes and need to be attention vampires at everybody's expenses.  Everybody seemingly has such in their groups.  Although each person needs to feel appreciated and accepted and respected for it--digging through the politics, cliques, political correctness of it all--its a real mess for the folks dealing with it 'now.'
 
I have no business dictating to another how to live their life.  I will however, offer thoughts and how I see them but, I like to think that I am considerate of others and respect others enough to be as helpful as I can without forcing myself upon any individual.  It is a 'take it or leave it' proposition.  It use to be the behavior and attitude of my group of like minded individuals of 'how may I best help you.'  Letting others guide me as to where I can be of the most help.  Like minded people have been slapped about and I may join like minded people as to retreat into private circles--my life isn't a circus or a show and or competition.  I am me because my slaves and my friends say so.  I am in many ways European trained, because my European relatives and Leather friends say I am so.  That is all that matters isn't it. [Smiles]
 
I will remain intolerant of humans hurting animals for the sake of being cruel and or a bully, I will remain intolerant of those humans who hurt people, injure them knowing so and without adult consent--permission; as well as those who are too arrogant to get help in their skills and screw up wonderful people physically, mentally, spiritually and or emotionally.  I will remain intolerant of individuals who's hands are in the purse of groups, clubs and such--as to be their personal wallet and not good custodians of the funds for the benefit of the group/club they represent.  I will remain intolerant of white sneakers with leather pants and hawaiian shirts on top of that too in the dungeons.  I will remain intolerant of lima beans, beets and other foods.  I have tried but my body is intolerant.  I will remain intolerant of convicted beyond all doubt, murderers, rapists and child molesters and corrupt and or criminal behavior in any governmental, religious, civilian groups, clubs and special interests groups and or individuals.
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted,
Lady Hugs

< Message edited by LadyHugs -- 11/18/2007 11:34:40 PM >

(in reply to Daddysnikayla)
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