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Rules - 11/15/2007 6:52:36 PM

stateira

Posts: 48
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline

Master and I have had differing opinions on something. I have asked him about it but he doesn't have an answer for me other than "because I said so" which isn't always helpful to a slave who is still learning. I was wondering if somebody could help me.

Master and I sat down not too long ago to discuss setting rules for me. I realize some people think that rules for a grown woman is stupid...please feel free to post that opinion here but do realize it's not necessary to say so. Anyway, so these rules he made for me were about a paragraph each. I was always under the impression that rules should be easy to remember, and I was never talented at memorizing a whole lot, especially not 12 different paragraphs for rules. So I sat down and once we had agreed on them, I took notes. I basically wrote down the main point of the rule so that I could just glance at the list and know them. He got so mad about this and says that it was making a mockery of his rules and that I was only playing a game and I was being difficult and very unsubmissive. I didn't understand this, because all I was trying to do was make them easier for me to understand so I could follow them better. I will give an example:

his rule said "you are primarily responsible for most of the housework. You are to keep the home a clean, pleasant place for me. You are expected to minimize clutter and keep junk from accumulating around the home. you will keep the floor and carpets clean. you will be responsible for dusting. you are responsible for cleaning the bathroom. kitchen and laundry duties are to be shared as I see fit."

I wrote down "keep the house clean" because memorizing all of that just really isn't realistic.

Another one said "Girl's collar symbolizes her relationship with me and her status as mine. She should see to care for it with that in mind by wearing it proudly and maintaining it when necessary."

I wrote down "wear your collar."

How is all that diminished and disgraced by my writing "keep the house clean" and "wear your collar"? I really do want to understand.

Post #: 1

RE: Rules - 11/15/2007 6:55:19 PM

GoddessMine

Posts: 250
Joined: 9/27/2007
Status: offline

*laughs*
I'm sure you were really sincere about this notetaking, but I have to admit, it's pretty funny.

Love,
GM

_____________________________

Pleasure of the Text? Pleasure of the Goddess, more like it.

(in reply to stateira)

Post #: 2

RE: Rules - 11/15/2007 6:56:58 PM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

I don't think it diminishes anything.. if you can paraphrase and still get everything he asked for done right, well great paraphrase, it'll probably make things easier to remember for someone who has trouble memorizing long lists.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stateira

How is all that diminished and disgraced by my writing "keep the house clean" and "wear your collar"? I really do want to understand.

(in reply to stateira)

Post #: 3

RE: Rules - 11/15/2007 6:57:56 PM

stateira

Posts: 48
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline

I suppose it is a little silly, but with being in school and having to know all that information, and having a job at the time and having to be prepared with lesson plans and whatnot, I guess I figured the easier, the better.

(in reply to GoddessMine)

Post #: 4

RE: Rules - 11/15/2007 7:01:36 PM

Littlepita

Posts: 1430
Joined: 10/6/2005
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Your Master needs to lighten up and be realistic.

_____________________________

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” – Anais Nin

(in reply to stateira)

Post #: 5

RE: Rules - 11/15/2007 7:05:33 PM

brattysarahjane

Posts: 36
Joined: 6/13/2007
Status: offline

can you post His rules somewhere, where you can still see them on a daily basis, where you won't "diminish" them, but still be able to read them daily so that you can memorize them?

that always helps me.

brattysarahjane

(in reply to stateira)

Post #: 6

RE: Rules - 11/15/2007 7:09:16 PM

bbwdommelilith

Posts: 81
Joined: 10/25/2006
Status: offline

     You have injured him narcissistically by inadvertently pointing out a flaw in his writing style; he isn't concise. As it says in Strunk and White's Elements of Style, "Omit needless words."

    LOL!

Lilith (former English major)

(in reply to stateira)

Post #: 7

RE: Rules - 11/15/2007 7:10:11 PM

angelic

Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline

It probably pissed him off because he felt like you were mocking him. I agree with pita, sounds like he needs to lighten up and learn to give orders more succinctly.

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

(in reply to stateira)

Post #: 8

RE: Rules - 11/15/2007 7:15:10 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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I see this as he took the time to write his instructions down with clarity for your benefit, so you would understand what he means by keeping a house clean ("clean" can mean entirely different things to different people), and so you would understand why he wishes you to wear your collar. By jotting it down to just a sentence, it can give the appearance, whether you intended to or not, that you were shrugging off the effort he put into training you, and as though you weren't taking it seriously.

If it were me, I would apologize. If your Master wishes you to memorize his entire rule list, then memorize it without shortcuts. Otherwise, he may decide to take shortcuts the next time he gives you an instruction, and not clarify when you ask for it. I would suggest you appreciate what he did, and apologize for any display of disrespect he may have perceived, telling him you meant none. Ask him what his expectation was when he gave you that list - to memorize it word for word? To learn and understand his perspective?

This is a great opportunity to bridge a communication gap. When he is done being angry, ask him to talk about this and let him know you were not mocking him, and would like to understand why he felt angry so you can prevent that in the future.

As for the easier the better, I would say being efficient is generally a good trait. Taking the easy way is not always the best way, however. Sometimes the Man wants to see how much effort I'm willing to put into something.

(in reply to stateira)

Post #: 9

RE: Rules - 11/15/2007 7:18:00 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

Just curious, but is there ANYTHING that you do that your Master doesn't get mad about and tell you that you aren't a real submissive? It seems to be a recurring theme in your posts.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to stateira)

Post #: 10

RE: Rules - 11/15/2007 7:18:00 PM

Estring

Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Your Master sounds like he's a million laughs. Hold the rule sheet from him and see if he can remember every word.
It is kind of hard to follow rules when you can't remember them. Keep it simple I always say.

_____________________________

Boycott Whales!

(in reply to stateira)

Post #: 11

RE: Rules - 11/15/2007 7:18:42 PM

Vanatru

Posts: 300
Joined: 4/16/2004
Status: offline

welcome to experiencing a detail-oriented man. wisty will probably get a kick out of this thread, as I am very detail-oriented as well. that being said, I would NOT think less of her if she kept notes like you did, or think you were making a mockery of the rules. What's most likely is he's worried that all the details in his rules aren't accounted for as they are an explanation of what they mean to HIM. If he'd stop a minute and think about what women think a clean house is and what guys think a clean house is, I'm sure he'd relax a bit more. *chuckle* Maybe you could help by explaining that you treasure the collar, and what it means to you etc.

Maybe he didn't realize you don't think like a detail-oriented guy? hehe

Edit: btw, it's funny now to see this, it wasn't so humorous earlier in the relationship until we worked quite a bit on our differences in communication styles.

< Message edited by Vanatru -- 11/15/2007 7:22:48 PM >

(in reply to Littlepita)

Post #: 12

RE: Rules - 11/15/2007 7:26:01 PM

wisteriaV

Posts: 438
Joined: 3/17/2005
Status: offline

Looks up at Master ummm with all due respect you are one of the most detailed oriented people I know, whereas I am more point blank and precise. I use short cuts and as long as the results are the same, thats all that matters. The because I said so thing and the fact hes putting you down alot based on what youve said in your posts would send up red flags for me in the area of abuse. I would also tell him point blank as long as his rules get followed why is he so anal retentive about how you remember things?

_____________________________

Every story has two sides , much like a coin and neither one is totally perfect.
If it doesn't float your boat, then don't get in the water~!

(in reply to Vanatru)

Post #: 13

RE: Rules - 11/15/2007 7:36:41 PM

amiciaN

Posts: 228
Joined: 1/20/2007
Status: offline

using fast reply

I can see your need to keep it simple, but I can see why your Dominant might be upset also. You reduced:

"you are primarily responsible for most of the housework. You are to keep the home a clean, pleasant place for me. You are expected to minimize clutter and keep junk from accumulating around the home. you will keep the floor and carpets clean. you will be responsible for dusting. you are responsible for cleaning the bathroom. kitchen and laundry duties are to be shared as I see fit."

To this

"keep the house clean"

What has happened? Every single scrap of your Dominant's specific expectations, what "keep the house clean" means to him, has been removed. It's no longer his standards, just whatever "keep the house clean" means to you.

The same thing goes with the rule about the collar. You have removed the reasons your Dominant gave you the rule.

Rules without reasons give rise to rote behavior. For a clear picture of how unappealing that can be, remember the bored voice on the speaker at the drive-thru--"You want fries with that?"

Using a sort of short-hand as a mental prompt is one thing, but you really do need to learn the specifics and the reasons he gave you in the rules. Otherwise, you run the risk of not really learning to please him and submitting to his rules and could possibly end up submitting to your own internal definitions and fantasies. I don't think that's what you really want.

Something else you can do is to turn it around-- pretend he only said, "keep the house clean". How would you know what he meant by that? Would you know that he might help in the kitchen or might not mind throwing that load of clothes that's in the washer into the dryer? It might help you to understand why he's upset.

_____________________________

NChaka's amicia

I have never been lifted so high as when I kneel at His feet.

(in reply to Littlepita)

Post #: 14

RE: Rules - 11/15/2007 8:45:47 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

You could always try asking him if he would prefer the rules to be forgotten because he would not allow you to reformat them in a way that made them easy for you to remember.

In my opinion, only half the job of learning is the student's. The other half is the teacher's. If he refuses to teach in a manner that allows you to learn best, he needs to accept that you will not pick up the material as easily or as well. A compromise could be reached by making a poster of what he wrote, word for word, so you are never unsure of exactly what "clean" means and keeping your own "cliffnotes" version to helping you remember. Having ADHD, I completely understand a need for concise rules. Too many details and I've already forgotten it.

Heck he could even quiz you randomly on the details of each rule to make sure you understand the point behind each rule while still allowing you to do what you need to do in order to serve him.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 11/15/2007 8:46:20 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to stateira)

Post #: 15

RE: Rules - 11/15/2007 8:46:13 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

I generally agree with Erin and Owned- you consistently have problems of communication in which he comes down on you and you feel shamed and run to the boards for advice, then it gets lost in time until the next one.

However- what exactly is so hard about printing a full copy of the rules, keeping it with you at all times and memorizing it over the course of a few days/weeks? Med students do it, even Earl Hickey can keep his list.

This seems to be another issue of differences in handling tasks, you guys are coming at this from very different perspectives. It's not WRONG on either side, but as you've agreed to do what he says, then you need to start wrapping your mind around things the way he does. He was very specific, and I can see nothing but trouble in you generalizing that.

Now, take me and my boss. My boss is a convoluted thinker, says only whats on the immediate tip of his mind, constantly forgets details and processes- and yet of course goes through sporadic periods of micromanagement. I've learned there are times I can write down three words while listening to him repeat himself four time on a process I've done twenty and laughing inside as he forgets five steps while nodding to him attentively.

And there are times when I literally write "blah blah blah" on my notepad because he's on a tear trying to be "managerial" for a day when I know it means nothing, will be forgotten tomorrow, but I need to LOOK like I'm being fastidious because that's what he's going for.

The point is- you adapt to your managers style. I don't recommending writing "blah blah blah" when your dom gives you specific rules, but look at it more as you doing it his way, rather than "getting it done." I know it's frustrating, but if this is the relationship you want, then that's how it is.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to amiciaN)

Post #: 16

RE: Rules - 11/15/2007 9:13:46 PM

briska

Posts: 126
Joined: 7/12/2006
Status: offline

Copying rules a few dozen times also works for those memorization-skillz challenged. ;)

I think you should post the rules somewhere, or have a copy easily accessible. I myself have a very detail oriented Sir who, while He often cannot read what's right in front of His face without His glasses on, can spot a dust bunny a mile away in our home. If your master is going to double check your work, then you might want to know ahead of time exactly what his wishes are. Then, when he points out something, you can both go to the list and then say "See? it's not there." But if he took the time to detail what your service means in the form of "rules" (which, really, to me, is formatted like a kind of contract), it is kind of mocking him, saying that his time isn't worth anything, because you'll just do what you want anyway. Which, you know, kind of defeats the purpose of being trained as a submissive.

_____________________________

Mmm... briska!

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 17

RE: Rules - 11/15/2007 11:14:10 PM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
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Keep the House clean, as has been said a few times can mean vastly different things to different people.
You were given the rule and the standards in the same paragraph.
It may be that he has trouble explaining this to you.
Want to be ahead of the game, build your house's Butler's book based from these 12 rules and expanding them each time things get more complex.
Rather than shortening the information you asked for and recieved why not go after even more detail and clarity.
There are dozens of details for each of the sections you removed that you really need to know in order to do the task properly.

"You are expected to minimize clutter and keep junk from accumulating around the home. you will keep the floor and carpets clean. you will be responsible for dusting. you are responsible for cleaning the bathroom. kitchen and laundry duties are to be shared as I see fit."

I'll select one single aspect to illustrait the point.
Cleaning the bathroom: What is the standard for the bathroom to be considered adequately cleaned?
Sink cleared of clutter beyond what items (many butlers use photos to set the standard in stone) toothbrushes in rack? in case? in cabinet?, Toothpaste lid? rolled or squeezed?
Sink wiped down daily, scrubbed daily, scoured with clenser daily? Weekly? Monthly?
Toilet scrubbed every1, 2, 3,4,5 days?
Floor swept, mopped, scrubbed daily, weekly, monthly?
What product is to be used? How often? in what application?

Are you sure your standard of "cleaning a bathroom" is the same as mine? Same as your Master's?
If I can come up with these questions that need clarifying in 5 minutes then certainly you can see that rather than reducing the rules to short form you really need to be going the opposite direction.

That said the approach taken of because I said so really gives nothing to the equation.
You asked why and in my estimation he would have been better served to give you this basic explination.

"You took my rules and short standards and reduced them so that the standards included were removed. The standards given are important. Additionally when given tasks that did not include a detailed standard you failed to ask for further clarification."

< Message edited by Archer -- 11/15/2007 11:16:39 PM >

(in reply to briska)

Post #: 18

RE: Rules - 11/16/2007 5:35:56 AM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline

i totally agree with what many have said here, particularly Archer. If someone expects something of me, i want as much details as possible, particularly if the situation is new. In my mind, i can shorten it to "keeping bathroom clean" but i prefer to know what that means to the one i am serving...afterall as Archer said - everyone's standards of a clean bathroom can differ and if i am there to please Him as opposed to myself, i want to know every detail and then perhaps i can know what is appropriate when i want to go "above and beyond".

Now, technically, i am not someone who needs micromanaging and i have pretty high standards to begin with. However if one is trully "in service" to another, it is all about them and it is good to remember that~

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 19

RE: Rules - 11/16/2007 6:44:44 AM

hardbodysub

Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline

I have the same issue at work.

I told my secretary to clean up a little when she had down time. She wrote "check makeup and polish nails".

I told her that it was here responsibility to get my coffee in the morning. She wrote "spit in boss's coffee".

I told her she'd have to work late Friday night. She wrote "Tell boss to go to hell".

(in reply to stateira)

Post #: 20

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