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Who is the REAL republican? - 11/16/2007 4:38:05 PM

MasterDoc1

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Republicans used to be the party of limited government, a party that kept taxes down and let people alone so they could create wealth by their own efforts.
Then the neo-cons and the corporate/military industrial complex hijacked the party.
But here is symbolic proof (especially for anyone over the age of 50) of who the REAL republican running for president is:
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/press-releases/45/ron-paul-endorsed-by-barry-goldwater-jr

Post #: 1

RE: Who is the REAL republican? - 11/16/2007 5:23:51 PM

Stephann

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From: Portland, OR
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Modern American politics are dominated by a 'yes/no' 'good/bad' 'right/wrong' rhetoric. The parties, it's leadership, and it's constiuants are now reactionaries. Instead of proposing 'the right' direction, we have pushed a dichotonomy into existance, where the 'best' direction is thrown to the wolves in favor of the 'right' or 'left' directions. The reactionary public demands 'better choices.' Two reactionary forces with 90% of the power offer a variety of carbon copy choices. The public reacts with voter apathy, with the remainder picking the lesser of two evils instead of supporting a third alternative. This is because the third alternative party doesn't fit the 'right/wrong' 'good/bad' model.

And the wheels on the bus go round and round...

Stephan

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to MasterDoc1)

Post #: 2

RE: Who is the REAL republican? - 11/16/2007 5:48:54 PM

SugarMyChurro

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Joined: 4/26/2007
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http://heretics-corner.blogspot.com/2006/03/5-republican-myths.html

Taxes have not been kept down, ever - just selectively redistributed to benefit the extremely wealthy. And you actually trotted out the old "trickle down economics" theory? Damn...

Republicans, on the whole, have always been assholes.

When have Republicans not been totally whored out to big corporations?

When was the Republican party not a puppet for the military industrial complex?

The Neo-cons aren't a hijack, they are the fulfillment of what has long been festering under the surface of the party. Now maybe some of you more moderate Republicans don't like it, but that's just the kind of rift that arises between the house slave and the master when the master pulls rank.

Yeah, it turns out that you as a more ordinary citizen just might have a slightly different agenda than the family that owns Koch Industries, Inc.

Ya think?

(in reply to MasterDoc1)

Post #: 3

RE: Who is the REAL republican? - 11/16/2007 5:52:31 PM

KenDckey

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Joined: 5/31/2006
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Stephan's comments are very interesting.   I disagree that we need a thrid party.   We have more than that now - Republicans, Democrats, Green, Libertarian.......    But the concept that we, as a general rule, choose a position, and anyone who doesn't agree with it, on a local, state, or national level is the enemy. There is not direction.   What this makes us is that we are all wrong, because we, including the politicians, can't agree or please everyone.   As a rule, we have a very narrow view of politics, no matter who is in office.

Since we can't agree upon a general direction to travel in, then what is the solution?   Personally I have no clue.   I know that I have my personal political beliefs, and encourage everyone to agree/disagree at their pleasure.

We disagree on lots of things.   Earth and Mars are both heating up, but it is singularily mans fault on earth. Win the war on terror, but don't fight it becasue we deserve what we got. Create more and more entitlements and raise/lower taxes. Create more "sin" taxes which generally hurt the poor more than the rich (who can really afford it).   Tax the rich at a greater percentage than the poor becasue they make to much money. Ban big business so teh mom and pop shops can charge more for their goods and services.   and on and on and on.

I wonder where we will be in the future?   Which direction we shall take?   Where will we go?

(in reply to Stephann)

Post #: 4

RE: Who is the REAL republican? - 11/16/2007 5:57:16 PM

KenDckey

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Republicans, on the whole, have always been assholes.

When have Republicans not been totally whored out to big corporations?

When was the Republican party not a puppet for the military industrial complex?

Lets see, Wasn't it December 29th, 1970 that OSHA (a labor movement) and the EPA (Greem movement) legislations were signed during Nixon's administration. Both of them are major anti-business pieces of legislation if I remember right. We could go from there but what is the point?

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

Post #: 5

RE: Who is the REAL republican? - 11/16/2007 6:01:30 PM

SugarMyChurro

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I actually don't follow your logic the way you would seem to. I think you need to dig way deeper into the historical record.
But even accepting your flawed logic at face value...

Aren't you saying that Nixon, a Republican, is responsible for government bloat?

So which is it? Smaller government or bloated government?

Tick...tick...tick...

(in reply to KenDckey)

Post #: 6

RE: Who is the REAL republican? - 11/16/2007 6:02:55 PM

NeedToUseYou

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDoc1

Republicans used to be the party of limited government, a party that kept taxes down and let people alone so they could create wealth by their own efforts.
Then the neo-cons and the corporate/military industrial complex hijacked the party.
But here is symbolic proof (especially for anyone over the age of 50) of who the REAL republican running for president is:
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/press-releases/45/ron-paul-endorsed-by-barry-goldwater-jr

You know my view on this whole thing that has been going on in the repub circles about Ron Paul and questioning whether he's a republican or not is really getting old. First I don't really care if he's a republican a democrat, a independent, or a freaking alien, it really doesn't matter. What I care about is what he stands for, that's it. So, really IMO, people should just stop with this desire to prove Ron Paul is the real republican. I actually wish he was an independent, I hate he's associated with Bush because of that stupid (R), and I wouldn't want him to have a (D) either they are bad enough as well. It will gain him no votes, the people that will vote for him, for one want a different type of politician, than the standard cooker cutter molded politicians stamped R or D depending on the day they were created.

So, I guess what I'm saying is I don't care if he's a "real" republican or not. We aren't voting for the R or D. We're voting for the person, and anyone with any lick of sense, will be voting for an individual not a letter. Personally I wish most of the R's and D's would charter a voyage on the Titanic. It would be the best thing for this country.

This is one of those non-issues for me, and I don't see why anyone cares about it personally.

(in reply to MasterDoc1)

Post #: 7

RE: Who is the REAL republican? - 11/16/2007 6:06:59 PM

SugarMyChurro

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Exactly.

But I still won't likely vote for him. I guess it depends how it all shakes out. I won't vote for Obama or Hillary either.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

Post #: 8

RE: Who is the REAL republican? - 11/16/2007 6:14:24 PM

KenDckey

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I only responded to your acqusations that republicans (including me, my firends and neighbors) only do what big business wants. Which just doesn't appear quite true and listed some specific examples of opposite ends. Didn't say a thing about Government Bloat. Are you saying that the increase in the power of oh lets say the EPA during the Clintion Adminstration was the direct fault of the Republicans? Beats me.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

Post #: 9

RE: Who is the REAL republican? - 11/16/2007 6:21:49 PM

BlackKnight

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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there are no real republicans, there are no real democrates, they are polititans, CROOKS,
they will remain that untill we take back our country, our gov't and make it
for the people, and by the people, so that promises aren't just lies to get them elected again
where the representatives can only get limited personal gain, ie same gain as everyone else, not
just for their wallet, ie. former democrat head awarding Grumman a substantial contract when his
wife was the vice president of Grumman. Or that how many politans have their hands in oil?
so that we can't get a good price, drill more, or change over to a better energy source?
Mass. complains about using fossil fuels to produce electricity, but refuse to put the electro windmills
along their shore. Why? polititans and $. let's not talk about Ca.

It's not about which side of the fence you sit on, cause your still on the ground, and they're up in their towers!
It's time to tear down the towers, and build a better kingdom!

_____________________________

'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'
Life of Reason, Reason in Common Sense, Scribner's, 1905, page 284"
George Santayana

Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get me!

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

Post #: 10

RE: Who is the REAL republican? - 11/16/2007 6:25:29 PM

KenDckey

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Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline

YOu know Knight. As a suggestion, we might want to go back to the way it was. No Pay for Politicians. And making them abstain in any vote that affects them in some personal manner affecting finances. Whatcha think?

(in reply to BlackKnight)

Post #: 11

RE: Who is the REAL republican? - 11/16/2007 6:34:17 PM

OrionTheWolf

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Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

I completely agree, and it is that hijacking as the reason I now consider myself an independent, conservative. Actually looking at how both parties have evolved, they are not very similar to what they were 50 years ago. Many have flipped sides, and if you look to where big business is sending alot of their contributions, it would seem Hillary is the choice for big business.

Orion

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDoc1

Republicans used to be the party of limited government, a party that kept taxes down and let people alone so they could create wealth by their own efforts.
Then the neo-cons and the corporate/military industrial complex hijacked the party.
But here is symbolic proof (especially for anyone over the age of 50) of who the REAL republican running for president is:
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/press-releases/45/ron-paul-endorsed-by-barry-goldwater-jr

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to MasterDoc1)

Post #: 12

RE: Who is the REAL republican? - 11/16/2007 6:36:55 PM

GoddessDustyGold

Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

YOu know Knight. As a suggestion, we might want to go back to the way it was. No Pay for Politicians. And making them abstain in any vote that affects them in some personal manner affecting finances. Whatcha think?

Perhaps...and I cannot speak to this suggestion directly concerning Ron Paul, but I think more people should be made aware that:

quote:

Brief Overview of Congressman Paul’s Record:

He has never voted to raise taxes.
He has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
He has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.
He has never voted to raise congressional pay.
He has never taken a government-paid junket.
He has never voted to increase the power of the executive branch.
He voted against the Patriot Act.
He voted against regulating the Internet.
He voted against the Iraq war.
He does not participate in the lucrative congressional pension program.
He returns a portion of his annual congressional office budget to the U.S. treasury every year.
Congressman Paul introduces numerous pieces of substantive legislation each year, probably more than any single member of Congress.

A beginning, perhaps?
Ron Paul 2008

< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 11/16/2007 6:38:00 PM >

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to KenDckey)

Post #: 13

RE: Who is the REAL republican? - 11/16/2007 6:52:12 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

How about OUTLAWING Political Parties, as Racketeering and Corrupt?

I don't see them authorized by the Constitution. Anyone?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

Post #: 14

RE: Who is the REAL republican? - 11/16/2007 6:55:36 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Modern American politics are dominated by a 'yes/no' 'good/bad' 'right/wrong' rhetoric. The parties, it's leadership, and it's constiuants are now reactionaries. Instead of proposing 'the right' direction, we have pushed a dichotonomy into existance, where the 'best' direction is thrown to the wolves in favor of the 'right' or 'left' directions. The reactionary public demands 'better choices.' Two reactionary forces with 90% of the power offer a variety of carbon copy choices. The public reacts with voter apathy, with the remainder picking the lesser of two evils instead of supporting a third alternative. This is because the third alternative party doesn't fit the 'right/wrong' 'good/bad' model.

And the wheels on the bus go round and round...

Stephan

Hi Stephan

Politics 100,150 or 200 years ago were no less volatile or polarizing than today. They managed over the years to guide us…with a few missteps. The real danger is giving up and letting others make decisions for you.

There have also been successful third parties as well…We were very close with Ross until we found out he was a nut. One of these days, if the main parties do not start reflecting the wishes of the people, a viable alternative candidate will come along and turn Washington on their heads.

Butch

(in reply to Stephann)

Post #: 15

RE: Who is the REAL republican? - 11/16/2007 7:07:45 PM

GoddessDustyGold

Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

There have also been successful third parties as well…We were very close with Ross until we found out he was a nut. One of these days, if the main parties do not start reflecting the wishes of the people, a viable alternative candidate will come along and turn Washington on their heads.

Butch

Yes, and there are people who say Ron Paul is a nut. But I have yet to hear anyone state any reasons, other than that he would not be able to facilitate his platform very well. I happen to disagree with that, and I think that it would scare the shit out of Washington, D.C. if someone like Ron Paul was to get into the White House. I would still like to hear some better reasons than "It wouldn't work, even though his ideas are good, so we will just have to continue to choose betwen the lesser of two evils." Or..."He is too radical, and I would not want to take the chance of losing some of my safety nets."

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 16

RE: Who is the REAL republican? - 11/16/2007 7:25:25 PM

liks2plzlf

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Joined: 7/21/2005
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I like Ron Paul too, but I don't think he has the slightest chance of getting the nomination.

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

Post #: 17

RE: Who is the REAL republican? - 11/16/2007 7:41:09 PM

BlackKnight

Posts: 767
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

I've heard plenty-o-good 'bout Ron, I need to research more. hellary might not be the anti-christ, but she's a contender(the anti-christ will have a bigger following, and acceptance, plus wont be in power for about 26+ years, hmmmm, maybe celsie, nah , only if she gets better looking).
Polititions need to get paid, otherwise no one would do it, but I was thinking that 'bout that abstainance from votes of the personal effect nature, but a party sticks together, and how do we find out when deals are done 'under the table'? the news is owned by the gov't, they have no backbone, no real investigative reporting, no checks and balances. We don't know. We have the vote, but do not use the power. Then voting someone out to be replaced by who? Another crook? Can an honest person make it in politics? They'll get steamrollered over. How do we lead the sheeple to the clean water, when the billboards, lights, loudspeakers are at the poisoned water telling them to drink? are there honest people in politics? Ron Paul, hmmm, is he our only hope?
how do we correct the problem? will we be able to correct the problem? can we come up with a reasonable solution, the lead the sheeple to drink?

:::::::::Nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure!:::::::::::::::::

_____________________________

'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'
Life of Reason, Reason in Common Sense, Scribner's, 1905, page 284"
George Santayana

Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get me!

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

Post #: 18

RE: Who is the REAL republican? - 11/16/2007 7:42:47 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: liks2plzlf

I like Ron Paul too, but I don't think he has the slightest chance of getting the nomination.

he doesnt need to be nominated, just write him in anyway.

(well assuming your ballots have write in slots like ours do)

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 11/16/2007 7:43:38 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to liks2plzlf)

Post #: 19

RE: Who is the REAL republican? - 11/16/2007 7:57:07 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
Yes, and there are people who say Ron Paul is a nut. But I have yet to hear anyone state any reasons, other than that he would not be able to facilitate his platform very well. I happen to disagree with that, and I think that it would scare the shit out of Washington, D.C. if someone like Ron Paul was to get into the White House. I would still like to hear some better reasons than "It wouldn't work, even though his ideas are good, so we will just have to continue to choose betwen the lesser of two evils." Or..."He is too radical, and I would not want to take the chance of losing some of my safety nets."

Oh yeh the washington good ole boys are shittin in their drawers over this guy... Him and kuchinic or mckinney as a vice! woo hoo The biggest thing he would do, is get all this business as usual government corruption out on the table for the "common (i aint got time) citizen" to see just as a result of the issues he wants to tackle

Most people even very intelligent and educated people have no clue how the money system in itself is bankrupting this country much less everything else that goes on behind the scenes and exposing that to the public is priceless.

There is nothing that i can think of including the iraq war or health care that is of more value to this country than that, that cant wait for 4 more years.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

Post #: 20

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